Gay marriage re-Legalized in CA

[WhiteWolfReloaded]

Frosty- Don't take this wrong, but are you gay or bisexual?

[Kentactic]

Our good friend Irish puts it into perspective for us.

Let us understand the situation

[Kentactic]

Frosty- The free land i stand on today and millions have for over 200 years is "nothing good" to you? It is because of religion that America exists. But rest assured religion is fading and with it America.

[Ghost]

Frosty- Don't take this wrong, but are you gay or bisexual?

No sir, but I have some good friends and family who are, and they're some of the best people I've ever had the pleasure to know. Because of that I have a strong opinion on this subject. I see that they should have all of the same rights and liberties that I have, because they're no different than I am. Some of them are even church going Christians (and one Buddhist). They're people, no matter their sexual preference, religion, skin colour, political views, what have you.

I'm a young man who likes beautiful ladies, politically a libertarian, and religiously an agnostic. I didn't have to find these beliefs after years of soul searching or anything of that nature, I was just smart enough to figure things out for myself and not let other people, or books, or religious/political figureheads influence me. But that's just me. And with regards to my religious views, I come from a family where some of them believe "If you don't go to church you'll go to hell" and "Anglicans shouldn't intermingle with Catholics", and even "Jews/Muslims/etc are bad".

That's just the way I am, I guess.   


Ken, do I really have to go into the history books and bring up how much death and war was caused because of religion? Yes, America was built on some specific values, but times change. America can still be America, and if anything, it can actually become more free, and it's not going to happen by restricting peoples rights as human beings.

[Kentactic]

Death and war was caused in order to free the slaves too... Should we just avoid war at all costs or is war a lesser evil in some cases?

[Kentactic]

I really dont have much more to add here. I mirror Irish in the video above. He can articulate far better then i. I attempted to show where i drew my line in the sand. Maybe its hard to see. If so wait till nightfall and use a flashlight at ground level. It should show up pretty good.

[WhiteWolfReloaded]

 Frosty- You said "My point is that the state shouldn't be involved with religion, nor should religion be involved with the state. Nothing but trouble comes out of it." Well my friend you and I are of the state. We the people comprise it. The majority may accept homosexuality, but not be inclined to participate in it. That does not make it a rightful cause. Tolerating something does not make it okay. I consider you as I do many Americans, indoctrinated sheep to the core.

To this point if liberty and freedom is why you prep than it is a selfish waste if you'd toss it away on such dross as homosexual marriage. How many of them are being beheaded in the streets? How many are being deprived of food, water, jobs, speech, and general liberty? NONE. Marriage is not a right you indigent intellectual. It is a holy covenant between a man and woman that has been broken since the beginning of time by the fleshy selfish desires of mankind.

People like yourself forsake all reason for selfish purposes and feel good words. If you want someone to lie to you and make you feel better perhaps you'd do better to join a LGBT  forum. This is not the case. The majority of the men here wish to preserve this nation as our founding fathers created it. At now point in time was a LGBT agenda part of that. If you wish to change that than I suggest you change your voting party to Democrat and begin lobbying for Obama. Perhaps you can travel to South Africa were he is pushing it now!

And pushing is the key word there. You people push and shove your lying little agendas all over us. And look at what you've created! This nation is ripping itself apart thanks to the lies of tolerance and lack of morality. "But it's the religious peoples faults" you all say. What cowards. We Christians, sinners ourselves, who preach forgiveness through redeeming truth. You think yourselves better? You call those who've turned away from homosexuality liars and propagandist because you can't stand to see the truth. Your issue isn't that we're against homosexuality. Your issue is you're against God himself. There is an inherit hate for truth in you.

Just like Hibernaison said your kind will light those torches and pick up those pitch forks. We didn't separate from these traditions. Your kind did. Marx would be proud.

[WhiteWolfReloaded]

Death and war was caused in order to free the slaves too... Should we just avoid war at all costs or is war a lesser evil in some cases?

People like him don't understand. The expect that every man who has claimed to have been religious should be like Christ himself and without error. The reason is twofold. They don't accept that Christ is the Son of God out of disbelief and rebellion. I mean after all something must exist in the first place for you to deny it right? You can't deny what never was.  And by comparison to the worst religious hypocrite they can call themselves better, or not "as bad." Evil is evil, people who think of it in terms of degrees are in denial.

[Ghost]

 

It's pointless.


Peace out guys. Hope y'all succeed in your lives.

[WhiteWolfReloaded]

It's pointless.


Peace out guys. Hope y'all succeed in your lives.

Oop, I hurt someone's feelings. So be it Frosty, but keep in mind you're the one walking away from the conversation. When the Communist take over and the Muslim extremism begins here like it is elsewhere keep in mind they don't forgive and they love a good'ol beheading.  Wonder if that's what those guillotines are for?  Probably just a coincidence.

[Ghost]

My feelings aren't hurt by any means, I'm just bowing out of this discussion since it's pointless to try and continue with it. Might I add though that it's pretty apparent that the communists have already taken over, and have been in control for some time.


I do have to say though, guys, that I do still hold you all in the highest respects for standing up in what you believe in, even if I personally don't share such viewpoints. Sometimes it's just better to step away from a fight, rather than keep on throwing useless punches.

[WhiteWolfReloaded]

My feelings aren't hurt by any means, I'm just bowing out of this discussion since it's pointless to try and continue with it. Might I add though that it's pretty apparent that the communists have already taken over, and have been in control for some time.


I do have to say though, guys, that I do still hold you all in the highest respects for standing up in what you believe in, even if I personally don't share such viewpoints. Sometimes it's just better to step away from a fight, rather than keep on throwing useless punches.

And Frosty, I feel the same, but like I tell my little sister (who argues with me about the same shit) I only argue with you because you're worth the fight. That may be hard to understand, but someday you'll get it.

[sledge]

Death and war was caused in order to free the slaves too... Should we just avoid war at all costs or is war a lesser evil in some cases?

Actually, Lincoln was originally against freeing the slaves.  The reason he finally decided to do it was in the hopes that a rebellion would start in the south hindering the southern war effort.    You are correct in my opinion that war is the lesser evil in some cases.  People have found many reasons to fight wars.  In some cases, the evil of war was just the expansion of another evil.  For example, Hitler's war was evil based on evil.  Stalin's and Mao's wars against their own people were in essence war against their own people based on evil intentions.  It's always easier to defeat an adversary if you disarm them first. 

[JohnyMac]

  ThatGirl you hit the nail squarely on the head!

this verbal masturbation is gumming up my interwebs and the webpages keep sticking together  

[Kentactic]

Personally i think talking about this more wouldnt hurt. What we are talking about here is the root problem behind why America is dying. Fuck some beans and rice. Prep your minds. Prep your communities minds. If we cant even get on the same page for what it takes to have a free land as a people forget about rebuilding it. If this very serious topic is gumming up your forum i can find one more suitable.

[crudos]

Personally i think talking about this more wouldnt hurt. What we are talking about here is the root problem behind why America is dying. Fuck some beans and rice. Prep your minds. Prep your communities minds. If we cant even get on the same page for what it takes to have a free land as a people forget about rebuilding it. If this very serious topic is gumming up your forum i can find one more suitable.

So your saying that everyone in this forum should agree with you and WW on this topic? This kind of stuff is just distractions but forth by those who would keep you in fear. I don't fear gay people having the legal rights to marriage like all other Americans.

[WhiteWolfReloaded]

I tend to agree with Ken. Shocking right? I just want to point out a few things here. Items of polarization in this nation are propagated by media for a reason. Those who declare things like abortion, gay marriage, feminism, wealth distribution, and so on are subjects to the socialist mindset. Beyond that, declaring one's liberty to pursue things like abortion and gay marriage are really anarcho-pacifism. By declaring unlimited liberty you're really declaring anarchy in the form of complete separation from not just moral and traditional understanding, but by demanding a federal government (of the people) be changed to accommodate your revised beliefs.

With that understanding not a soul here or elsewhere can logically explain where my liberty goes when things like this occur without coming to the obvious negative conclusion. My liberty was nixed. And for those who don't believe gay marriage affects my liberty answer me a this:

My Constitutional right to freedom of religion. I turn on my tv-it's gay. I open a book-it's gay. I open a magazine-it's really gay. I send my child to public school- he can be taught why Bobby has two mommies, anal sex is safe and okay between boys, and condoms are passed out for free. I go out of the house with my family to shop- we consistently see homosexuals together and have even had perverts creep us out looking at our young son. So where is my freedom of religion? Confining me to walls within a church is about as much freedom as the Jews had when they were confined to the ghettos. Don't kid yourselves.

My Constitutional right to freedom of speech. If I utter a word, not even in condemnation, but not of support to homosexuals I'm a hateful person. If I mention morality, religion, faith, or even forgiveness and redemption I'm a religious hate monger. If a Christian comes forward who suffered from homosexuality comes forward and declares he was healed he is called a liar.

My question is not where did my Constitutional guaranteed rights go, but when did they receive a Constitutional pardon to persecute me and those that would stand with me? And don't kid yourselves saying that's not the case. You've all seen the injustices committed BY LIBERTY against our very own Constitution. Unlimited liberty is anarchy and the far left has been employing anarcho-pacifism flawlessly for decades.

If any of you hopes to reclaim or reforge this nation in to what it once was then you need to refine yourselves physically, mentally, and spiritually. If our founding fathers were a moral compass you might ask yourselves how far off you are from them with the understanding that liberty didn't forge their beliefs. Their beliefs forged that liberty. The majority were Christians.

[Kentactic]

Well said WhiteWolf 

[Kentactic]

Personally i think talking about this more wouldnt hurt. What we are talking about here is the root problem behind why America is dying. Fuck some beans and rice. Prep your minds. Prep your communities minds. If we cant even get on the same page for what it takes to have a free land as a people forget about rebuilding it. If this very serious topic is gumming up your forum i can find one more suitable.

So your saying that everyone in this forum should agree with you and WW on this topic? This kind of stuff is just distractions but forth by those who would keep you in fear. I don't fear gay people having the legal rights to marriage like all other Americans.

I dont expect everyone to agree on anything but lets atleast keep the dialogue going. If we can devote threads to whats better an AR or an AK and have heated debates i think we should be able to squeeze in a conversation about the cornerstone of what makes America, America and how to save it.

[crudos]

Personally i think talking about this more wouldnt hurt. What we are talking about here is the root problem behind why America is dying. Fuck some beans and rice. Prep your minds. Prep your communities minds. If we cant even get on the same page for what it takes to have a free land as a people forget about rebuilding it. If this very serious topic is gumming up your forum i can find one more suitable.

So your saying that everyone in this forum should agree with you and WW on this topic? This kind of stuff is just distractions but forth by those who would keep you in fear. I don't fear gay people having the legal rights to marriage like all other Americans.

I dont expect everyone to agree on anything but lets atleast keep the dialogue going. If we can devote threads to whats better an AR or an AK and have heated debates i think we should be able to squeeze in a conversation about the cornerstone of what makes America, America and how to save it.

But AR-AK threads are based on real things, real objects, real results that can be scientifically compared and contrasted. Gay marriage opponents only basis is old jewish tribal books of mythology, who's stories have been stolen, twisted, and turned over the centuries to suit whatever argument is trying to be made by it's adherents. I get that WW and you are on a mission to convert the non-believers as part of your faith's path, but makes for terrible one-sided discussions on the internet.

[Kentactic]

Wrong Crudos. I wouldnt even consider myself a full blown believer. Im coming around but im not there yet. There is no disputing what has happened to America. There is no disputing religion is fading. Wether god exists or not isnt even important to the conversation. We know religion exists and we know when it had a stronger presence in America the nation was better off. Wether believets are praying to empty skies or not is not important. They have a guidline in their life and a moral compass. America requires this foundation to be great.

[crudos]

Wrong Crudos. I wouldnt even consider myself a full blown believer. Im coming around but im not there yet. There is no disputing what has happened to America. There is no disputing religion is fading. Wether god exists or not isnt even important to the conversation. We know religion exists and we know when it had a stronger presence in America the nation was better off. Wether believets are praying to empty skies or not is not important. They have a guidline in their life and a moral compass. America requires this foundation to be great.

My apologies then Ken on painting you with wrong brush in regards to your faith's path. Christianity maybe be fading as a whole, but that means other forms of spirituality are rising from what I've been reading and seeing. I think that is a great thing, and bodes well for the future of not only this nation, but the world in general.

[Kentactic]

Well Crudos well have to agree to disagree. Fly by night drink your pee and love mother earth type people arent going to cut it. Its really kind of wierd what im experiencing. I figured id recieve support here if anywhere. Its almost like the revelations in a way. Most will be all for this new world crap or whatever. Seems odd...could libertarianism be the antichrist? 

[crudos]

Well Crudos well have to agree to disagree. Fly by night drink your pee and love mother earth type people arent going to cut it. Its really kind of wierd what im experiencing. I figured id recieve support here if anywhere. Its almost like the revelations in a way. Most will be all for this new world crap or whatever. Seems odd...could libertarianism be the antichrist? 

I totally support you finding peace and solace in your faith, but that doesn't mean yours is the only correct path for everyone else. I could be the antichrist, those nuns in Sunday school back in the day seemed sure, lol.

[Grudgie]

So.. Bestiality.

Yay or nay or GTFA?