Author Topic: Call me cold hearted...  (Read 1426 times)

Offline Outonowhere

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Call me cold hearted...
« on: November 28, 2011, 05:43:21 PM »
... But good riddance! Lol

Quote
Family: Illegal-immigrant student martyred himself for Dream Act

An illegal-immigrant student in Texas who committed suicide the day after Thanksgiving left letters saying he felt trapped by his lack of opportunities and, according to his family, he ?decided to sacrifice himself for the cause.?

High school senior Joaquin Luna, 18, dressed in a suit, kissed family members, went into the bathroom and shot himself, according to his brother, Diyer Mendoza. In the letters he said he had lost hope in the chances for the Dream Act, which is legislation that would have legalized illegal-immigrant students and young adults but which was blocked in Congress last year.

?He was actually doing this for the cause, mainly the Dream Act,? Mr. Mendoza said. ?He was doing this to show politicians, to show that something had to be done because there are a lot of kids out there in the same situation.?

The case highlights the hundreds of thousands of illegal-immigrant students who are caught between a decision their parents made when they were young and the situation with U.S. law.

Immigrant-rights advocates said politicians in Washington should take notice.

?His death is an indictment on the failure of this administration to move an inch forward on fixing a broken immigration system,? said Jorge-Mario Cabrera, communications director for the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles, which has planned a Friday commemoration for Luna.

?I certainly don?t want to give you the impression that we?re going to use his death as a football or anything like that. We need to honor his memory, and we need to remind other Americans what this young man was about ? because that?s the kind of people we?re talking about,? Mr. Cabrera said.

A call to the Hidalgo County sheriff?s office was not immediately returned Monday morning.

Luna was a student at Benito Juarez-Abraham Lincoln High School in Mission, Texas, where he made As and Bs, his brother said. Mr. Mendoza said the rest of the family has legal status but not all are citizens. His mother went into labor with Luna while she was in Reynosa, Mexico, which meant her son was not a U.S. citizen.

Luna had applied to colleges, and while some had shown interest, Mr. Mendoza said his brother?s legal status made him ineligible for some scholarships and meant he wouldn?t have an option for legal work once his schooling was through.

?His world just closed,? Mr. Mendoza said. ?He saw that everything he was doing was just for nothing. He was never going to be able to succeed.?

Students in Luna?s position are among the most difficult of immigration cases. In most instances they were brought to the U.S. by parents when they were young and have grown up here, without ties to any other country.

Last year, Democrats in Washington tried push through the Dream Act during the lame-duck session of Congress and actually saw the legislation pass the House, though it was blocked by a filibuster in the Senate, falling five votes shy of the 60 needed.

Opponents said the bill was too broad, applying to illegal immigrants well past their days as students, and said it didn?t put strict enough requirements on those who were eligible.

In the absence of legislation, President Obama has tried to take administration action, with the Homeland Security Department issuing a memo to its immigration services saying those who would have qualified for the Dream Act should be low on the priority list for deportation. It also listed other factors, such as caring for a family, that would lower the risk of deportation.

Immigrant-rights groups say the administration could go further and issue a blanket stay of deportations for illegal-immigrant students. Mr. Obama has ruled that option out, saying he does not have the authority to do so.

The issue also has popped up on the campaign trail this year.

Texas is one of the states that allow illegal-immigrant students to attend public colleges and universities at in-state tuition rates. Gov. Rick Perry, one of the candidates seeking the Republican presidential nomination, signed that legislation and has defended it as the compassionate solution.

?In the state of Texas, where Mexico has a clear and a long relationship with this state, we decided it was in the best interest of those young people to give them the opportunity to go on to college and to have the opportunity,? Mr. Perry said in September, defending the program. ?They?re pursuing citizenship in this country rather than saying, you know, we?re going to put you over here and put you on the government dole for the rest of your life.?

But other candidates said it rewards illegal behavior.

Story Continues →
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Offline leadpersuasion

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2011, 06:00:43 PM »
LMAO! That's hilarious......too bad he ruined a perfectly good suit.
"Our cause is just; being with one mind resolved to die freemen rather than to live slaves." - Thomas Jefferson
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Offline NOLA556

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2011, 06:03:44 PM »
i just don't understand why they don't at least attempt to fix their own shit-hole country(s) instead of coming here and ruining ours the same way they ruined theirs. we have enough people here trying to destroy our country, we don't need any more.
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Offline sledge

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2011, 06:17:57 PM »
I'm sorry this kid decided to end his life.  I'm sorrier still that the parents have to live with the thought that they caused his death by breaking laws they were aware of by coming here illegally.

His death was a waste and does nothing to change my opinion on the subject of illegal immigration.



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

Offline Skippy00004

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2011, 06:38:00 PM »
So the parents just let him go into the bathroom and shoot himself?
Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain...

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Offline thatGuy

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2011, 08:34:10 PM »
Next guy who thinks this is a joke and comments on how humorous he thinks it is is getting banned. Admittedly I am in a foul mood but nothing about that article is funny. People lost a brother, cousin and son over what amounts to a continuation of the racist bullshit that is so pervasive in this country. Go unfuck your head on this issue. These people are no more villainous than the Irish or the Italians or any other white nationality who emigrated to this country.

Offline sledge

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2011, 08:50:06 PM »
I agree it isn't funny that this young man decided to end his life.  But this situation is quite a bit different than the " Irish or the Italians or any other white nationality who emigrated to this country."  Not in color but in legality.

Having worked in citrus for several years I know hundreds if not thousands of Mexican Nationals who are here illegally.  I'd say that 60 % are hard working people trying to make a living.  20% are worthless pieces of crap who will do their work if you are watching.  Close to 40% will steal anything they see laying around.  100% say piss on the laws of the United States.  60% Say that large portions of the U.S. were stolen from Mexico and are rightfully theirs.  And 60% are racists or use racist terms against Americans regardless of their color.

Those are the differences.  Those are also the facts.

Still, I'm sorry this young man decided to end it.  Needless death is always a tragedy.   
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 08:59:34 PM by sledge »



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Offline mountainredneck2051

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2011, 09:47:58 PM »
if the young man would have obeyed our laws he would probably be in class with luis right now

its a shame he done that, but the guy needed mental help more than anything
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Offline thatGuy

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2011, 10:19:48 PM »
Sledge, Those numbers could apply any of the American's I have worked with. Sloth and theft is a universal complaint, so universal infact that it made the "thou shall nots."

If the first immigration law still applied none of us would be allowed to be citizens.. Look that shit up.

These people are being victimized by the system just the same as the Irish, Italians and eastern Europeans were. Since when did you guys support the Feds oppressing people or give a shit about legality? Check your moral compass and call me in the morning ;)


Offline mountainredneck2051

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2011, 10:29:21 PM »
Sledge, Those numbers could apply any of the American's I have worked with. Sloth and theft is a universal complaint, so universal infact that it made the "thou shall nots."

If the first immigration law still applied none of us would be allowed to be citizens.. Look that shit up.

These people are being victimized by the system just the same as the Irish, Italians and eastern Europeans were. Since when did you guys support the Feds oppressing people or give a shit about legality? Check your moral compass and call me in the morning ;)

i got nothin against mexicans, grew up with em, lived with em, loved em
but illegals are a problem with me, i don't care what country your from, if you want to move here do it legally

i do care about legality on many things my moral compass says if you let your country run down to crap don't run to mine and then expect us to take care of you (which in turn will run our country down aswell)

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Offline thatGuy

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2011, 10:52:47 PM »
I have spent an hour looking for this quote, I wish I had it posted before you replied Mountain.

"How does something immoral, when done privately, become moral when it is done collectively? Furthermore, does legality establish morality? Slavery was legal; apartheid is legal; Stalinist, Nazi, and Maoist urges were legal. Clearly, the fact of legality does not justify these crimes. Legality, alone, cannot be the talisman of moral people."
Walter E. Williams

The root of my argument is that the law is completely stacked against legal immigration. Do you sincerely believe that these folks want to break the laws of the country they are fleeing to or is it easier to believe that they want so desperately to do better for their families that they are willing to break an unjust law? Furthermore how in the world is it possable for the same country that espouses freedom and liberty to make those who would persue freedom and libery criminals?

Is that the kind of shit you want to stand for?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 11:22:13 PM by thatguy »

Offline sledge

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2011, 11:14:07 PM »

These people are being victimized by the system just the same as the Irish, Italians and eastern Europeans were. Since when did you guys support the Feds oppressing people or give a shit about legality?

TG, I do care about legality.  I do care about the Feds oppressing American Citizens .  The Irish, Italians and eastern Europeans and millions of others from everywhere else who entered our country legally and are attempting to assimilate should be left the hell alone by the Feds.  That is the difference between those of whatever nationality who enter the U.S. legally and those who cross our border with their finger in the air to our laws.

My ancestor entered Boston Harbor in 1665 aboard the Abigail at the age of 10 in the company of his 21 year old sister.  One of his son's house is today a museum outside of Hartford, CT.  No immigration laws back then.   :)     



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

Offline mountainredneck2051

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2011, 11:17:50 PM »
as far as i can trace my family, they were here before we was america...........

and the other ancestors in my blood shot arrows at them
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Offline sledge

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2011, 11:23:12 PM »
I have spent an hour looking for this quote, I wish I had it posted before you replied Mountain.

"How does something immoral, when done privately, become moral when it is done collectively? Furthermore, does legality establish morality? Slavery was legal; apartheid is legal; Stalinist, Nazi, and Maoist urges were legal. Clearly, the fact of legality does not justify these crimes. Legality, alone, cannot be the talisman of moral people."
Walter E. Williams

The root of my argument is that the law is completely stacked against legal immigration. Do you sincerely believe that these folks want to break the laws of the country they are fleeing to or is it easier to believe that they want so desperately to do better for their families that they are willing to break an unjust law? Furthermore how in the world is it possable for the same country that espouses freedom and liberty to make those who would persue freedom and libero criminals?

Is that the kind of shit you want to stand for?

Good argument!  Let me ask.  Just because most people in the world are good people who would like to come to the U.S. for a better life, should we open the borders and say ok, everyone who wants to come to America come on in?   We are the only civilized country on the planet that doesn't protect it's borders, that includes Mexico.  It's also one of the reasons, not the only one, that the lights are dimming. 

You sir are a nice guy.  Maybe a little too nice.



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

Offline sledge

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2011, 11:25:18 PM »
as far as i can trace my family, they were here before we was america...........

and the other ancestors in my blood shot arrows at them

Thanks for reminding me.  My great GM was an Apache squaw.  I have her S&W pistol she used to protect the 16 kids while my GF was at market.



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

Offline thatGuy

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2011, 11:34:31 PM »
Sledge, I am not going to hear that crap about how nicely the Europeans assimilated to our way of life.

Open your eyes man, Boston might as well be lil'Dublin, type Irish American into Google and see how many "preservation societies" there are.

No one ever assimilated to "American Culture" because what they brought with them became our culture.

Offline mountainredneck2051

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2011, 11:36:26 PM »
I have spent an hour looking for this quote, I wish I had it posted before you replied Mountain.

"How does something immoral, when done privately, become moral when it is done collectively? Furthermore, does legality establish morality? Slavery was legal; apartheid is legal; Stalinist, Nazi, and Maoist urges were legal. Clearly, the fact of legality does not justify these crimes. Legality, alone, cannot be the talisman of moral people."
Walter E. Williams

The root of my argument is that the law is completely stacked against legal immigration. Do you sincerely believe that these folks want to break the laws of the country they are fleeing to or is it easier to believe that they want so desperately to do better for their families that they are willing to break an unjust law? Furthermore how in the world is it possable for the same country that espouses freedom and liberty to make those who would persue freedom and libery criminals?

Is that the kind of shit you want to stand for?

hit me up on icq
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Offline thatGuy

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2011, 11:37:31 PM »
Where are all these closed borders? The border at El Paso is a 4 string barbwire fence, it doesn't even keep the dogs in/out!

The least we could do it turn them into tax payers!

Offline sledge

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2011, 12:01:02 AM »
The least we could do it turn them into tax payers!

Great idea, only it won't happen.  They all have fake names and cards and change them every two years or so.  They claim 12 dependents on their w4 so they pay no taxes.  They do that because they can't claim a refund.   One guy I know has changed his name 4 times that I know of.  I don't know what his "legal" name is now, but I still call him Antonio because that's what his name was when I first met him. 



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Offline thatGuy

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2011, 12:47:38 AM »
Sounds like some Sovereign Citizens I know!


goodnightChesty1775

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2011, 01:15:27 AM »
I'm sorry this kid decided to end his life.  I'm sorrier still that the parents have to live with the thought that they caused his death by breaking laws they were aware of by coming here illegally.

His death was a waste and does nothing to change my opinion on the subject of illegal immigration.

i doubt anyone sees it that way, they will blame it on the gov for not legalizing them...

Offline Outonowhere

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2011, 02:01:25 AM »
And just like the "poor refuges who risked their lives crossing into a new country for a better life", they are simply circumventing the system that ultimately must be returned to the principles of the once great Republic.  I'm not saying I don't agree with them on some issues but if all everyone ever did was skirt the system, where would we be today???  Would we be under the English banner still if all the 3% did was skirt the system?  And how long does it last as your country morphs into a collectivist ultra socialist regime?  You say, "just give me my cabin in the woods, my guns and my woman and leave me alone".  But what happens when you are deemed unfit for those things, or even to live in freedom? 

And you say that white Europeans failed just as horribly to assimilate into society because they still have some divisive "sects" or areas of the country.  I'll give you that.  But we are talking about a very small number compared to the invaders (yes I said it) from the south.  The groups you speak of largely "melted" into the melting pot of what was the USA.  Tell me, especially those in or near border states, how often do you go for a drive and are able to pick out Gaelic or Italian or Duetch or any other language plastered on billboards, store signs and road side food vendors?  When was the last time your city voted to have Gaelic or Italian put on all city signs since masses of the language readers couldn't/wouldn't read English?  When was the last time you heard "press 1 for Gaelic, press 2 for Italiano or press 3 for English?

As to the invaders comment, when a mass of people enter another country, whether they intend to do harm to it or not, and seek to fundamentally alter it... Seems like an invasion to me, and unfortunately for other parts of the world we should be very familiar with that definition. 

As to the immigration process into the US, I have no first hand knowledge of it's processes but from what I understand it's one of the loosest in the world.  You don't have to be rich, or famous, or have a particular skill that we need in this country.  And when you get caught here illegally, it's not death you face, nor imprisonment and hard labor.  It's a warm meal, a place to stay and a ticket he to see your family till you're ready to return again illegally.  Tell me of ONE other country that is THAT generous?

Also on that not, when supporting amnesty and promoting illegal immigration and one borders, what message does that send to all those that stood in line, spun the wheel and earned their path to citizenship?  I would love to hear what Luis' thoughts on these issues are.

Finally in regards to the article itself, suicide is no joke.  Having personally dealt with a suicide in the family KNOW what it's like to lose someone to it.  It is no solution and I stand firm in the position that it's the cowards way out.  Do you wish there was something you could do to prevent it? Sure.  But let me make this CRYSTAL clear.  This guy made perfectly fucking known that his suicide was politically motivated.  The last thing we need is for some bleeding heart liberals (modern definition) to raise him up as some twisted Ghandhi, a martyr for their political cause.  He's been here this whole fucking time just like millions of other illegals, so why now?  No I will no jest or make light of what his family is suffering, but HE alone is responsible for that and I will shed no tears, nor will I lose sleep over this.

In closing, if it's open borders, and amnesty for illegals you want go ahead, just not in my country!
"A GREAT CONTRADICTION IS THE BELIEF IN STATES RIGHTS WHILE NOT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL."  - Me
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Offline Outonowhere

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2011, 02:11:24 AM »
Oh and in reference the "lol" in my OP it was directed the title of the post and anyone keep up with the presidential debacles should recognize it from Rick the globalist Perry's comment that if you are against free education for illegals, much less like whats in the Dream Act, you would have to be "cold hearted".  That is all.
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Offline leadpersuasion

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2011, 11:03:20 AM »
IN FACT, EVERYBODY BETTER KEEP THEIR OPINION TO THEMSELVES, CUZ "THATGUY" WILL BAN YOUR ASS IF YOUR OPINION DOESN'T LINE UP WITH HIS. BETTER KEEP YOUR HEADS DOWN!  C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-)
"Our cause is just; being with one mind resolved to die freemen rather than to live slaves." - Thomas Jefferson
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Offline sledge

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Re: Call me cold hearted...
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2011, 11:16:26 AM »
IN FACT, EVERYBODY BETTER KEEP THEIR OPINION TO THEMSELVES, CUZ "THATGUY" WILL BAN YOUR ASS IF YOUR OPINION DOESN'T LINE UP WITH HIS. BETTER KEEP YOUR HEADS DOWN!  C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-)

Actually, this isn't quite true.  TG has different views, as does everyone else, on a whole host of topics.  TG and I don't see some issues the same and I know he doesn't really like some of the shit I post.  But he has allowed it, and some of the others of you to as well,  out of respect for the freedom of speech and because he wants us all, as has been discussed, to have a feeling of ownership in this site. 

I still believe however, that making fun of someone killing themselves falls out of bounds regardless of the reason.  I have no doubts that when you all think about it you feel the same way.  If you don't, get a metal evalutation because something is wrong.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 11:25:17 AM by sledge »



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco