What makes America Exceptional?

[RS762]

Personally I think Bush threw the american dream out the window and Obama pissed on it where it fell.
forgive the royal "we" please.

I want to know this because from where im sitting it's hard to see what we are doing right.
Perhaps im just disillusioned and one of you noble patriots can bring me to my senses.

-We imprison more of our citizens than any other nation on earth.
-We are subject to Draconian anti-free speech laws through the Patriot act.
-Our most profitable corporations are outsourcing american jobs faster than they can build overseas factories.
-On paper we are the most warlike society the world has ever seen.
-We have a representative government that is in no way represents of the interests of the citizenry.
-We have more debt than any nation on earth.
-We have more foreign military bases and outposts in more countries than any previous known empire.
-We are the only nation to employ nuclear weapons in warfare.
-Our pointless war on drugs is fueling both the Narco war in Mexico and the growth of the Private-Prison industry at home.
-We topple elected leaders because they threaten US corporate interests through nationalization of resources.

I see a ton of flag-waving bullshit on this site and needless animosity towards outside nationalities and religions (mostly brown ones) accompanied by a holier-than-thou attitude and laughably absurd "they worship satan" type justifications.

What makes America better than other countries?
We are a country that fought an empire for it's independence and freedom and now we invade and occupy the nations of the earth, personally I think these kinds of actions bring limitless shame the United States of America and sully the names of all the people who have fought and died to protect it's system and ideals.

For a bunch of people who bitch about the nanny-state our country seems just fine to tell other nations how to run their affairs.
I want to know what you guys think, although personally i think im about to get flamed off this forum.

[sledge]

-We imprison more of our citizens than any other nation on earth.
-We are subject to Draconian anti-free speech laws through the Patriot act.
-Our most profitable corporations are outsourcing american jobs faster than they can build overseas factories.
-On paper we are the most warlike society the world has ever seen.
-We have a representative government that is in no way represents of the interests of the citizenry.
-We have more debt than any nation on earth.
-We have more foreign military bases and outposts in more countries than any previous known empire.
-We are the only nation to employ nuclear weapons in warfare.
-Our pointless war on drugs is fueling both the Narco war in Mexico and the growth of the Private-Prison industry at home.
-We topple elected leaders because they threaten US corporate interests through nationalization of resources.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've seldom felt so much pride!   [img]http://bestsmileys.com/ar

Sorry, but it's what we haven't done that we could have if we had chosen to that you're missing.  If that's all we've done compared to what we could have done.  I'd say we must have a nice streak in us somewhere.

[RS762]

That's the shit im talking about Sledge.
You prefer the American Empire to the American Experiment.

It's not about "what we could have done" it's about what we have done, which is killed and imprisoned millions of people across the globe, no harm in that right Ol' Sledgy?

[sledge]

That's the shit im talking about Sledge.
You prefer the American Empire to the American Experiment.

It's not about "what we could have done" it's about what we have done, which is killed and imprisoned millions of people across the globe, no harm in that right Ol' Sledgy?

Hogwash.  We don't have an empire although we could have if we had wanted to.  We've killed enemies.  We haven't imprisoned nor could we afford to imprison millions across the globe.

You've bought in to a way of thinking that isn't real and was most likely created without your best interests or future survival in mind.

[RS762]

That's the shit im talking about Sledge.
You prefer the American Empire to the American Experiment.

It's not about "what we could have done" it's about what we have done, which is killed and imprisoned millions of people across the globe, no harm in that right Ol' Sledgy?

Hogwash.  We don't have an empire although we could have if we had wanted to.  We've killed enemies.  We haven't imprisoned nor could we afford to imprison millions across the globe.

You've bought in to a way of thinking that isn't real and was most likely created without your best interests or future survival in mind.

And you base this statement on???
So 1,180 overseas military bases don't constitute an empire?
A de facto oil reserve currency doesn't constitute an empire?
Military acts of aggression on nations thousands of miles away without congressional approval don't constitute an empire?
LOLOLOLOL There aren't "millions" of prisoners? there are nearly 8 million people in US prisons alone, the majority of which are private tax-eater conglomerates. This doesn't include people who have been renditioned to foreign countries.

Who here is really talking hogwash?

[hjmoosejaw]

Maybe you're right. Rather than imprisoning somebody, we should just cut off their hands for stealing. More debt, Obama has spent more than all other administrations combined. More foreign military bases around the world, probably from wiping everybody's asses around the world. The U.S. is a superpower, we use to be anyway. Some of the problems come with the territory. Agreed, some of this shit has gotten way out of hand. But it keeps PROGRESSING (Form of the word Progressive) in the wrong direction. Some of us Conservatives know how great this country is and was. We're disgusted with what it is becoming. The government can suck, but it's the people that make it great! and everybody is free to leave whenever they want to.       

[WhiteWolf]

Play nice guys. RS has some valid points and you need to keep in mind Sledge a lot of it has to do with generational differences. And I'll be blunt, he's got a point with the "empire" thing. It's an ugly word, but logistics don't lie. How long have the Koreans and the Japanese been after us to leave? There's a time to butt in and there's a time to piss off. We have a bad habit of confusing them. And people have yet to justify the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for us. This nation has some serious issues and just blasting through the middle east didn't solve shit. In fact it only made things worse for us financially. That's like the father getting mad at the wife for not putting out and then beating the shit out of his kids when they didn't do shit. Then we get to shit like Iran and Israel and it's no wonder people don't what war. They have no fricking clue what the right thing to do is, but no one wants loss of life. I'm hitting the sack, but again, play nice.

[sledge]

And you base this statement on???
So 1,180 overseas military bases don't constitute an empire?
A de facto oil reserve currency doesn't constitute an empire?
Military acts of aggression on nations thousands of miles away without congressional approval don't constitute an empire?
LOLOLOLOL There aren't "millions" of prisoners? there are nearly 8 million people in US prisons alone, the majority of which are private tax-eater conglomerates. This doesn't include people who have been renditioned to foreign countries.

Who here is really talking hogwash?

I'll be going to bed soon so please don't think this is going to turn into a long discussion.   

1180 Military bases. -   We cannot have a military base in "any" country, or for that matter fly over any country without their permission.  In fact we've removed military bases when told we no longer had permission for those bases.  Doesn't exactly sound like a dominating empire does it?

A de facto oil reserve currency. -  For nations to do business they have to have a common denominator to to ensure values exchanged are stable without constant large fluctuations.  The dollar was selected because of the size and purchasing power of our economy.  The government has shot the trust factor in our currency stability in the foot so we'll probably loose that status soon.  Does that make the next reserve currency an empire?

Military acts of aggression on nations thousands of miles away. - No that doesn't make us an empire.  It makes us a military power with a long reach.  If we were an empire we would have been running their government and had forces in country to squash rebellion to our rule.

There are nearly 8 million people in US prisons - How does that qualify the worldwide statement you made.  We have people who have broken laws.  Mostly drug related.  Whether the laws were a good idea is a different argument.  If you don't like the laws try to have them changed.  Breaking them until then means the person took a risk knowing what the consequences would be if they were caught.  Look on the bright side.  8 million prisoners means we are still a country of risk takers. 

I know you won't agree with any of that,  Doesn't matter, I still like you.  You're very polite for a guy who has such outlandish ideas.   



 

[RS762]

I know you won't agree with any of that,  Doesn't matter, I still like you.  You're very polite for a guy who has such outlandish ideas.   

lol i can say the same of you friend

It's because im one of those crazy anarcho-capitalist voluntarist paul-tards.
If one doesn't have principles, lofty though they may be, then what does he have?

[Reaver]

Roger that sledge....

RS I know were you are coming from.
And I don't like us being everywere either.

But we aren't and empire. We are just douchbags.

[505th.NM.Militia]

What makes America exceptional is the kick ass people who do the right thing EVERYDAY, regardless of Law, or money,or beliefs.  There are a lot of messed up people in the world and we need to watch out for them. 

[hjmoosejaw]

Good night guys ! Over and out.

[special-k]

I agree 100% with RS's original post....It could not have been said better in such a limited space.

Face it folks, our 'rulers' ARE the 'bad guys.'   And all who support or carry out 'their' orders are complicit. 

As it stands now, you'll get no flag waving from me!

[Outonowhere]

I agree special-k and RS, but what makes us as a "country" "exceptional" is we still, for the time being, hold the means to make change in our .gov, especially since it has been stepping WAY out of line.  Unfortunately there are enough sheeple with their heads planted in their asses that change will now be hard.

[special-k]

...but what makes us as a "country" "exceptional" is we still, for the time being, hold the means to make change in our .gov, especially since it has been stepping WAY out of line...

A strong argument could be made that we no longer "hold the means to make change in our govt."
and that the means you refer to has evolved into a well crafted illusion.

[Outonowhere]

...but what makes us as a "country" "exceptional" is we still, for the time being, hold the means to make change in our .gov, especially since it has been stepping WAY out of line...

A strong argument could be made that we no longer "hold the means to make change in our govt."
and that the means you refer to has evolved into a well crafted illusion.

Well they haven't taken all the guns yet.  Beyond that... you're right... lol

[WhiteWolf]

...but what makes us as a "country" "exceptional" is we still, for the time being, hold the means to make change in our .gov, especially since it has been stepping WAY out of line...

A strong argument could be made that we no longer "hold the means to make change in our govt."
and that the means you refer to has evolved into a well crafted illusion.

+1 Well frickin' said.

[sledge]

I've heard all of this kind of talk before.  America's bad and does bad things.  There's no reason to be proud to be an American so hold your eyes to the ground in shame.  It was back in the late 70's after Vietnam.  The longer you live the more you realize things run in cycles.  I know where it leads too.  It leads to us getting a bloody nose when the world buys into it.

Funny how there are similarities between then and now.  Carter/Obama are pretty much the same.  Finishing off a war by tying our military's hands in engagement which caused the war to be long and dragged out.  Americans loosing stomach  for the war they could have easily won if they had been committed to winning it without the BS.   So for political reasons our military is forced to quit because their hands are tied.  Our enemy didn't have to defeat us.  They only had to outlast our people's resolve in what it was willing to stand for.  Not that hard to do apparently as it happens time and time again.  And the world has noticed.

Just as then the economy in the toilet because of bad leadership.  Unemployment is at unacceptable levels.  Yep, this all looks familiar.  Get ready for weakness and a bloody nose.   It's coming. 

[Crow]

get this forum on TELEVISION, and open some eyes. the sheeple will remain unless everything is layed out just right for them. MEDIA rules. The people still have the power. the problem is the Media is ran by our beloved guberment.
I think is still a glint of hope to fix the gaggle-fuck  but it will take an overhaul of our media.
Ron Paul probably hasn't said anything because they would just paint him up to be crazy and further smear bull shit all over whats left of the truth.

Youtube will always just be a place for people like us to vent and bitch noone (sheeple) will care they will just see it as some guys wearing their tin foil hats counting their beans and rice reserves, while cleaning their rifles.

I for one am for Ragnar?k, no I dont mean the popular MMO. I mean the reset of earth, when the planet is sick of us and devours everything and only those who are prepared to survive, survive and rebuild.

[EJR914]

Great post, RS.  We have definitely lost our exceptional status in my mind.  Both economically and politically.  We are still better than most every other country out there as far as personal freedom, so just remember that, we're still better than most countries.

I will not defend some of our country's actions, though.  Espeically, when it comes to useless unconstitutional wars.

[RS762]

We are still better than most every other country out there as far as personal freedom, so just remember that, we're still better than most countries.

As far a gun rights are concerned, yes, we're better off than most.
However Americans have ZERO freedom of ingestion. Not to mention free speech, right of assembly, and right to privacy are violated more and more everyday. Things like the "Patriot Act", NDAA, and SOPA will make sure we don't get "too free".

I dunno, people talk about all this "freedom" they have without realizing the ones they have lost.
Back during prohibition you were still allowed to produce and consume alcohol for personal use, just not for distribution or sale.
The drug war is the most obvious symptom of the disease of tyranny, it criminalizes personal behavior and turns the citizenry against one another, divide and conquer at it's best.

Anti-police and Anti-authoritarian thought are at their highest point since i've been alive, my generation is pissed. All the hippy-dippy types i know that never owned guns before are buying them now. When I ask them why they say they are buying guns while they still can because eventually they will need to protect themselves from the government. Plain and simple.

The police and military better hope they step out of the way when shit goes down hill, otherwise it'll get messy, no-one likes cops anymore, and they should quit while they still can.

[EJR914]

We are still better than most every other country out there as far as personal freedom, so just remember that, we're still better than most countries.

As far a gun rights are concerned, yes, we're better off than most.
However Americans have ZERO freedom of ingestion. Not to mention free speech, right of assembly, and right to privacy are violated more and more everyday. Things like the "Patriot Act", NDAA, and SOPA will make sure we don't get "too free".

I dunno, people talk about all this "freedom" they have without realizing the ones they have lost.
Back during prohibition you were still allowed to produce and consume alcohol for personal use, just not for distribution or sale.
The drug war is the most obvious symptom of the disease of tyranny, it criminalizes personal behavior and turns the citizenry against one another, divide and conquer at it's best.

Anti-police and Anti-authoritarian thought are at their highest point since i've been alive, my generation is pissed. All the hippy-dippy types i know that never owned guns before are buying them now. When I ask them why they say they are buying guns while they still can because eventually they will need to protect themselves from the government. Plain and simple.

The police and military better hope they step out of the way when shit goes down hill, otherwise it'll get messy, no-one likes cops anymore, and they should quit while they still can.

I'm not arguing with you at all, I've got a long list of usurpation and abuses written down, that I have major problems with our government, our laws, and how little freedom we have.  We still have a lot more freedom than many countries do as well.

Also, look at it this way, THERE ARE A LOT MORE OF US THAN THERE ARE OF THEM.  They way I look at it, LIVE FREE, DO WHAT YOU WANT.  Don't worry about the laws, because chances are you won't be caught anyway or charged, and probably not convicted.  The bad side to that coin is that IF you get really unlucky and do get pinched, then be a man suck it up and do your fines and time, but for the most part, live free as you can man.

This ship is going down, so right now, enjoy your life, and live as a free man.

[JohnyMac]

So what are you going to do? That question is to everyone on this forum.

OK I am back to work after a 15 month vacation. I was in a meeting today when a bunch of folks started to whine about a bunch of small shit.

I was keeping my mouth shut and the CEO asked me, "JohnyMac what do you think?" I said, to the group, "So what are you going to do?" Which made everyone look at their breakfast plates.

So I am asking you (No body called out here) What are you going to do?

It's easy to bitch...It's harder to identify a problem and solve it.  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

[sledge]

That depends on the situation.  There's not much I can do right now other than vote and speak my mind.  If things go to total crap I'll do what I have to do and make sure those I care about survive.

[JohnyMac]

 [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co Sledge