Posse comitatus loophole

[CrookedSights]

Walker you're using an emotional argument.

 As far as I know the lockdown was "voluntary" I'm sure the searches of cars, homes and persons weren't. I'd love to see a video of someone refusing a search, probably would have been stripped down cuffed and paraded around for the cameras... I genuinely feel bad for that guy. Having 9,000 plus officers from various departments and federal agencies going full retard to lockdown an entire city to find one guy only to  have a civilian out for a walk find him... priceless. And the clearing of airspace around the area... Drones? What drones?

Martail law? No, militarization of local and state police departments yes. Along with all that federally subsidized gear to local departments not only comes with strings attached but massively inflated egos and an us verse them mentality. I'm not against the police so long as they follow the law and are respectful of me, my rights and property. I have several family members that are officers, some I wouldn't trust to make toast others, I'm glad they carry a badge.

[1000meterstare]

Hey Walker, guess what?  If the lowliest scumbag doesn't get his Miranda and other rights then neither do the rest of us.  In the aggregate that is MUCH more important than who got killed and maimed when.  It is you who are making the emotional argument by that "family member" strawman argument.  I'm talking about the health of our Republic and what it was founded on.  We are a sick, dying nation.

No where in the Constitution is a proviso for a suspension of the Bill of Rights for an "emergency."  Whether it is real, perceived, faked, hyped, or otherwise.

[CrystalHunter1989]

I think I can summarize the point of this thread......S*** be wack, yo!

[sledge]

Looking at the pictures from Watertown yesterday I am just amazed at all of the great photography.  I guess in the middle of a LE investigation they must have felt the need to document their "civilian police" actions with images.  So I guess they must have embedded photographers within the swat units.

I have a feeling Watertown was about a lot more than capturing a terrorist.

I'm still trying to figure out why police need military concealment garb in an urban environment to do their job.  It seems to me the cop questioning the guy on the bike in his blues was being just as effective.

Bottom line it's about intimidation.  The photo's are to get Amerikan citizens used to these kind of scenes in their streets.  Amerika was given a dose of the new normal yesterday. 

[CrookedSights]

I might be wrong but they don't need to read you your miranda rights unless they are interrogating you. If they don't mirandize you prior to interrogation, whatever you say is inadmissible in court. They're not mirandizing him to get more intel out of him. Full disclosure... I do not believe or have the slightest sense that there is any conspiracy here.

[APX808]

This guy as suspected terrorist has no right to Miranda Rights or a lawyer or shit, his only right is to get his ass Patriot Acted and NDAAed.

American terror suspects can be indefinitely detained without a lawyer in military prison camps

[thatGuy]

Wow guys, a lot of great comments and some not so great. I really like where most are going with this and I really like that you guys dog piled walker for being wrong (so wrong) but did so without landing elbow first on the poor guy!

I've been watching this deal from a distance and am disgusted by the reaction of my countrymen.

These kids left their bags on the curb and just walked away, I wonder if anyone said "hey dude, you left your bag!"

And if they did, what did they do when dude gave them the shady look over the shoulder and hauled ass?

If we set the theories aside and look at this event and others like it we shouldn't see a failing of the Justice System or the Police we should see a failing of our Countrymen. We shouldn't want the Police to maintain 'safety corridors,' we shouldn't want the FBI to super suspicious of every member of society.

We should be willing to take our concerns for our safety into our own hands.

I feel the need to answer the question of what I would do if it was one of my own, I have people I care deeply about in Boston. My brother in law, his wife, a childhood friend and her wife who live in Boston as well a a dear friend and his young family who visit town when he is 'in port.'

Would I want the God given rights of the good people of Boston violated because someone hurt them?

Would I want the police to terrorize the people under the guise of defending them?

I know this is bad timing but freedom isn't free. If we are to live in a free society then this crap can happen.

I don't want to live in a police state.

[CrookedSights]

TG, only a small percentage of the general populace would notice a tiger mauling the guy next to him on any given day let alone and unattended bag. Then whenever something happens suddenly everyone's an ace in SA. If there's an unattended coffee cup on the ground on the opposite side of the country or a small firework goes off in a trashcan in an almost empty park you gotta bring in the FBI... Seriously the last one happened. After a week everyone goes back to being the clueless mindless drones that they are. Sadly the only thing that will change that is the inevitable increase of events like this.

[thatGuy]

CS, I can't say you're wrong...

Suspicious package found on University of New Mexico Campus

[Reaver]

The reason they don't read the rights and " arrest " in the hospital is so that they wont have to cover his bill. Once he's released they pick him up and he's stuck with the bill. They do that shit all the time.

[Outonowhere]

First off let's remember that these guys were just SUSPECTS.  They were not tried and convicted except in the court of (media) "public opinion".  There is nothing aside from the word of Big Sis (and supposedly the guy that lost half himself that day) telling us that these guys did this.  What happened with their backpacks?  If you were a student with a bag weighing 25 fucking pounds loaded with college books wouldn't you drop it in that situation to be better able to GTFO?


As to the response... WOW.

Just as been shown with enhanced interrogation you tend to get shitty results going full retard as they did.  They had only just put out the SUSPECTS info and pic asking the public for help locating them... but then they shut down the city?  (Funny how they say only to look at the pics they release and immediately shut down the press conference so quickly when the official story was questioned).  And yet it was a citizen that stumbled across him only AFTER the "lockdown" had been lifted.  Imagine that! 





Are hummers now standard police issue?

Wow, this looks familiar....

http://investmentwatchblog.com/historic-moment-this-is-what-martial-law-looks-like/

Why do we pay these "Peace Officers" if "Officer safety" has trumped the natural born rights of our citizens?  Don't dare question my intentions with this statement as I want every man and woman wearing a badge to make it home safely at end of shift.  Empower the people to protect themselves and there is no need for a government that can only pretend to do so while imprisoning the people.

[tominphx]

@walker, problem is not the color of their clothing but their:

* body armor
* assault weapons
* APCs

Who cares what their tools are? It's the tactics that should be disturbing.

Also, I assume I'm not the only one who saw them all bunched together and thought it would make for a much easier target, especially for an IED.

[Reaver]

@walker, problem is not the color of their clothing but their:

* body armor
* assault weapons
* APCs

Who cares what their tools are? It's the tactics that should be disturbing.

Also, I assume I'm not the only one who saw them all bunched together and thought it would make for a much easier target, especially for an IED.

Is it bad that I have already developed engagement protocols for these tactics? I have saved and studied every picture posted plus about 50 others for a total of about 15 hours now.

I haven't posted much been reserved and thinking, planning.

I don't think I can post my thoughts.

[APX808]

@walker, problem is not the color of their clothing but their:

* body armor
* assault weapons
* APCs

Who cares what their tools are? It's the tactics that should be disturbing.

Also, I assume I'm not the only one who saw them all bunched together and thought it would make for a much easier target, especially for an IED.

I think the tools matter, because were the key of this thread that is "posse comitatus loophole", as they can't use military, although we can see some in some pictures (maybe national guard), they turned the police force into a military force.

In regards to tactics...

just after I mention their "tools" I mention that they declared martial law, and were doing door by door searches, that I think is worse, because is in direct violation of people's rights.

I agree they are not moving "too tactically" maybe because of lack of training, maybe to not scare even more the local population, if they were doing dynamic entries in every home they would had destroyed every house in the city.

An IED would fuck em up for sure, but performing a sweep in an inhabited urban area to avoid them is fucking hard, maybe they have a forward unit providing security to the main group in the middle doing the door by door searches, sadly I can't know just from the pictures how they were moving.

If someone had engaged them, that would had been bad for the neighborhood, too much observers in wooden houses, and it would had been extremely bad for the attacker too much troops well equipped, heavily armored, with air support and in a locked down city, you can kiss your ass goodbye.

It would be nice to read your thoughts Reaver

[Reaver]

APX, I would love to publish my findings and my thoughts, though I honestly am kind of in fear to.

[sledge]

APX, I would love to publish my findings and my thoughts, though I honestly am kind of in fear to.

Yeah, we don't want this to go the way of the booby trap thread.  PM's are available for those private types of conversations.  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[Reaver]

the problem with private is it only helps one individual. 

The booby trap thread was fucking awesome if I don't say so myself. 

[JohnyMac]

Mmmmmm. Interesting exchange of idea's and comments.

I have been in Dallas Since Thursday sequestered in training. Sitting at DFW as I read/type.

The Texans are PRETTY PISSED OFF that all of the news has been focused on Boston and that Barry (was here Friday) didn't visit the town that blew up. Heck, I think there was over 70 people killed and hundreds injured and much property damage.

Next: By the way, it is illegal to have 30 rnd mags in MA. That is for police, military or civilian. I in deed saw many 20 rnd mags (legal) I also saw many LEO's that were sporting 30 rnd mags. Also, bayonet lugs and collapsible are illegal for LEO's and civilians too. Saw a few of those. I wonder if the law was changed for LEO's one dark stormy night in MA. Congress. Just saying.

Last, while I was in Dallas I spoke to my wife a few times and asked her if she was OK. She told me yes and wasn't watching the news as things unfolded. She explained to me that there was way to much hipe and she got board. She also told me that she hoped the peckerwood bomber would come visit her as she would perculate him with the AR 15 she had leaning in the corner.

Keep the debate going on...I am enjoying it. :-)
 

[crudos]

Was on Steve Reichert's FB page, and found this and thought it might add to the discussion....

I don?t understand all this ?B Strong? crap that everyone and their brother from the Northeast is promoting. Are people really suggesting that Boston is now somehow stronger after this event? Do they think since all the sheople hunkered down together while armed terrorists roamed the streets they are now somehow strong? People ?coming together? and holding hands, having candle light vigils for the dead is not magically making you stronger. Perhaps they think sacrificing liberty for security will make us stronger? If you have not taken steps to become stronger (I.E. making yourself a harder target for both criminals and terrorists to strike) then you?re just the same weak minded, unarmed, crap your pants in the face of danger sheople you were before? BUT since you?re surrounded by so many like-minded defenseless and clueless sheople you feel ?strong?. B Stong? I say BS!

Here's his web page for those unfamiliar with him.
http://stevereichert.com

[APX808]

Here we can see one of the "voluntary" searches.
"Police were filmed ripping people from their homes at gunpoint, marching the residents out with their hands raised in submission, and then storming the homes to perform their illegal searches. "

I remember a few months ago some people talking about the need to prepare for "excessive rule of law" instead of "without rule of law", they were right on the spot.

Police perform house-to-house raids in Watertown MA ripping innocent families from their homes

[CrookedSights]

JM, now that you mention it I saw several officers with 20rnd mags in their weapons with 30 rounders in pouches even one in a pouch on a collapsible stock. Didn't understand it, still don't. What about suppressors? I saw a few of them.

[thatGuy]

Thanks for not getting into how someone would counter this, if you are interested in that information it is out there. No need to put it up here too.

I keep reading this thread and I can't help but notice that our collective understanding of Posse Comitatus and the attending Insurrection Act is out of date.

The Force Act of 1870-71 allows for US Military pressense when state authorities are either unable or unwilling to suppress violence that is in opposition to the constitutional rights of the people, i.e. voter intimidation.

In 2006 that shit all went out the window with the 2007 Defense Authorization Bill which allowed for "Use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies." Whether that be terrorism, natural disaster or...

Turns out they overstepped their bounds with that one and repealed one year later but,

NDAA passed in 2012 which allowed involvement if "A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces" blah blah blah.

And after all that we haven't even began to look at the real exemptions such as the Governor requesting Federal Troops or calling in the National Guard.

Like I said, "we are super fucked."

[JohnyMac]

It is legal to own a suppressor in MA. as long as you have the proper Treasury stamps for citizens. I can only assume it would be the same for the LEO's

I for got who wrote this comment however I agree. I was rather surprised to see so many out of shape LEO's. If you haven't done so as of yet I would suggest you start working on some PT.

This is a great opportunity for all of us to learn - I think you mentioned that RvR. Study the pics and any others you can find. Keep in mind a few things:

> What the police learned this time; much of it will be fixed for the next. This was a great training opportunity
    for the LEO's to try out all of their new toys. My step brother is a Philly Police Officer. His main job is filming
    events like this to be used for training in the future.
> Get educated on the law. "we think" that we can go back to the 4A of the BOR. That changes (I believe) when
   a emergency is declared. I think the Pres and Governor declared such emergency.
> Film and record such events if you happen to be involved. Do this for sharing with other like minded folks to
   prepare. Also to protect your butt in a court of law.

Our LEO forces have truly been transformed in the last 5 - 8 years. It wasn't all Barry he just continued the programs and maybe added a little accelerator from the Bush years.

Last, learn, plan, train then learn some more, plan some more and train some more.
 

[APX808]

VIDEO REMOVED BY THE DUTCHEBAG ASSHOLE UNGRATEFUL BITCH AUTHOR REQUEST (?)

[APX808]

At least you can be sure he isn't a right wing militia kind of guy