M1a?

[Reaver]

spirit whatever you do dont get rid of your 22, my grandpa has killed almost every animal in the south with a 22 at one time or another

Bwb I was trollin.

WE KNOW yaDOUCHE 
lol

[Kobalt]

spirit whatever you do dont get rid of your 22, my grandpa has killed almost every animal in the south with a 22 at one time or another

Bwb I was trollin.

WE KNOW yaDOUCHE 
lol

Apparently he did not.

[mountainredneck2051]

Well, at least he won't be crushed by the weight of all that .308 on the market.

But really though, I've been looking at some sweet M1A rifles. Only bad thing is the price, and as I said, lack of plentyful ammo.

Well, like I've told many others...if you get an M1A, you really do not need another rifle. These are the advantages I've seen: I've shot mine, and it is very easy to control shot placement. Not much kick. The caliber is very accurate out to 800-1,000+ yards if you know what you're doing (can't see using this much, but it's good to know). This also tells me that it will be much more accurate than an AK as distance increases (not that the AK is a bad weapon). It will penetrate many kinds of "cover" that the 5.56 cannot.

Another benefit, in my opinion, is that it also doesn't resemble the stereotypical "evil black assault rifle" that the public has been indoctrinated against. The M1A actually looks like any other hunting rifle with a 5 or 10-rd magazine (easily switchable), especially if you get one that has a camouflage stock. So, you get the capabilities of a battle rifle without sheeple freaking out the second they see it.

Another added benefit that the advocates of AKs and ARs do not seem to consider, is the M1A's ability to load ammunition via stripper clips (unless you have a scope/rail mounted on top). If I do run out of loaded mags, if I have a bandoleer with me, I can load 10-rd stripper clips all day long, without pausing. It's not as effective as loading magazines, but I won't be out of the fight for 1-2 minutes while I'm trying to load, thereby providing the enemy at least a few seconds to a minute to fire and maneuver to a different location. If you lose sight of the opposition's position, you might end up dead.

Yes, you will pay more for 7.62 NATO and .308. However, you probably will not use more than a few thousand rounds of ammo. I purchased  2 200-rd battle packs of German mil-surp 7.62 ammo for less than $200 from Cheaper Than Dirt. I have had some feeding problems with mine (one out of every ten on average, for a grand total of 60 rounds, would fail to completely load from the mag to the chamber). However, through a member of this forum (or former member, rather) who is very knowledgeable on such things, I have been told that this ammunition is actually of good quality and it's probably some maintenance I need to perform on my M1A. Still working on that. Anyway, quality ammunition can be had for a decent price if you look around for it. Currently, Cheaper Than Dirt has 1,000 rds of Lake City 7.62 for $604. That's only $0.61 per round, for mil-spec 7.62 from an American manufacturer. Excellent deal, if you have the money.

i was about to tear this apart but i will take the highroad here  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

[Colombo]

What is the high road for if not raining down death, destruction and judgement?

BTW that's a smart ass rhetorical question just can't seem to help myself sometimes.

[mountainredneck2051]

thatguy says i got to play nice now that i got that moderator title 

[rah45]

i was about to tear this apart but i will take the highroad here  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

Look, I didn't say that the M1A does EVERYTHING. It doesn't. I also didn't say that it is the best rifle out there. There is no "best" rifle out there. Rifles are suited to certain situations. The M1A excels at some, and is not so good at others. It's not the lightest rifle in the world, the ammunition is not light, the ammunition can be expensive compared to 5.56 and 7.62x39, it's ammo cap is 20 max, and it's not the weapon most military and police forces use (DMs sometimes have upgraded versions of the M14, but that's all I've ever seen).

Everything that I said in that post is true. It is possible, with a proper M1A platform, to make 800-1,000 yard shots. AK's are not as accurate at a distance as M1As. 5.56 ammunition is not capable of the same level of penetration as a similar 7.62x51 ammunition. The public DOES have an "evil black rifle" mindset due to the media, and the M1A (unless you modify it) looks more like a hunting rifle from a distance. It can load stripper clips (AKs and ARs cannot). It is possible to get decently-priced 7.62 ammunition.

So, I don't see how you could have "torn this apart."   

If you have information countering mine, I'd be glad to hear it. If I'm wrong on a point, I'll correct my view, thank you for providing the correct information, and move on. 

[mountainredneck2051]

Well, at least he won't be crushed by the weight of all that .308 on the market.

But really though, I've been looking at some sweet M1A rifles. Only bad thing is the price, and as I said, lack of plentyful ammo.

Well, like I've told many others...if you get an M1A, you really do not need another rifle. These are the advantages I've seen: I've shot mine, and it is very easy to control shot placement. Not much kick. The caliber is very accurate out to 800-1,000+ yards if you know what you're doing (can't see using this much, but it's good to know). This also tells me that it will be much more accurate than an AK as distance increases (not that the AK is a bad weapon). It will penetrate many kinds of "cover" that the 5.56 cannot.

Another benefit, in my opinion, is that it also doesn't resemble the stereotypical "evil black assault rifle" that the public has been indoctrinated against. The M1A actually looks like any other hunting rifle with a 5 or 10-rd magazine (easily switchable), especially if you get one that has a camouflage stock. So, you get the capabilities of a battle rifle without sheeple freaking out the second they see it.

Another added benefit that the advocates of AKs and ARs do not seem to consider, is the M1A's ability to load ammunition via stripper clips (unless you have a scope/rail mounted on top). If I do run out of loaded mags, if I have a bandoleer with me, I can load 10-rd stripper clips all day long, without pausing. It's not as effective as loading magazines, but I won't be out of the fight for 1-2 minutes while I'm trying to load, thereby providing the enemy at least a few seconds to a minute to fire and maneuver to a different location. If you lose sight of the opposition's position, you might end up dead.

Yes, you will pay more for 7.62 NATO and .308. However, you probably will not use more than a few thousand rounds of ammo. I purchased  2 200-rd battle packs of German mil-surp 7.62 ammo for less than $200 from Cheaper Than Dirt. I have had some feeding problems with mine (one out of every ten on average, for a grand total of 60 rounds, would fail to completely load from the mag to the chamber). However, through a member of this forum (or former member, rather) who is very knowledgeable on such things, I have been told that this ammunition is actually of good quality and it's probably some maintenance I need to perform on my M1A. Still working on that. Anyway, quality ammunition can be had for a decent price if you look around for it. Currently, Cheaper Than Dirt has 1,000 rds of Lake City 7.62 for $604. That's only $0.61 per round, for mil-spec 7.62 from an American manufacturer. Excellent deal, if you have the money.

first off, as far as controlability, yeah it works fine until your trying to put multiple rounds on a target and shift to other targets in a hurry
sure it will penetrate cover better than 5.56 or 7.62x39 but i seriously doubt the guy with the ar15 will be the one who is pinned down........
personally the blck rifle thing holds no merit with me, any gun will be seen as a problem, it dont matter what kind it is, guns will scare the sheeple

as far as loading your rifle with 10rd stripper clips oh well, i can carry 20 30rd magazines for my ar15 so wtf do i  care about loading 10rds at a time..
even at that i can load up a ar15 mag with strippers and get back into action in under 30 seconds

plus the price of everything
you paid 1400 for the rifle
then you got to pay out the ass for magazines
and on top of that your paying crazy ass prices for the ammo

let me guess how many rounds you got through your rifle......  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

i can get an ar15 and 2,000 rds of m855 for the price of your rifle alone

all i'm trying to do is break up some of this m1a/308 worship i see
especially when you got a guy who can hardly afford the fucking gun let alone to train with it
even at that you only got a few hundred rounds through your rifle max and already your rounds wont chamber due to you needing to service your rifle
these ar's and ak's are shooting thousands of rounds with no maintenance before they have one malfunction

i'm not trying to be a dick, i just dont want to see guys o out and arm themselves with a system that is not as good in todays world and they cant afford to train or prep with   

[rah45]

first off, as far as controlability, yeah it works fine until your trying to put multiple rounds on a target and shift to other targets in a hurry
sure it will penetrate cover better than 5.56 or 7.62x39 but i seriously doubt the guy with the ar15 will be the one who is pinned down........
personally the blck rifle thing holds no merit with me, any gun will be seen as a problem, it dont matter what kind it is, guns will scare the sheeple

Have you fired an M1A? I have. It was very controllable, for me anyway. Hardly any rise when firing, IMO.

It's nice to know you assume that the 5.56 guy will always have the tactical advantage.

Regarding the "black rifle" hysteria...perhaps it's because you live in Colorado that you see it differently. I've heard many times here in much-more-urban Georgia that "those people don't need assault rifles for hunting!" So, yes, it can be relevant. Sure, any guy with a weapon is a threat. The psychological portion induced by the media is what you also have to consider.

as far as loading your rifle with 10rd stripper clips oh well, i can carry 20 30rd magazines for my ar15 so wtf do i  care about loading 10rds at a time..
even at that i can load up a ar15 mag with strippers and get back into action in under 30 seconds

I didn't say that loading with strippers is ideal, but you can only carry so many mags on your belt. A bandoleer filled with ammo is easy to slip on/off, easy to carry, and provides extra ammo. A stripper clip guide is extremely useful for someone who must resort to the bandoleer.

plus the price of everything
you paid 1400 for the rifle

For a Springfield M1A...there are cheaper alternatives.

then you got to pay out the ass for magazines

Not true. Cheaper Than Dirt sells mags for less than $10/each. You may have to tweak 2 out of 5, but if you do that they've run perfectly fine from the reviews I've seen.

and on top of that your paying crazy ass prices for the ammo

Really? How is .60/round a crazy price? I've seen 5.56 for not much less, for a less capable caliber.

let me guess how many rounds you got through your rifle......

I have only a few thus far, due only to my inability to get to a range...due to time and money concerns. I have several hundred rounds of 7.62 NATO ready to fire, because I got them for a good price.

i can get an ar15 and 2,000 rds of m855 for the price of your rifle alone

Yep, with fewer capabilities. What do you have, now? You have an AR for combat, then you'll probably rely on a different, higher-caliber bolt-action for long-range/hunting. With my M1A, I have the better capabilities of both, combined. You plan on carrying around two rifles and ammunition and parts if SHTF? I seriously doubt it.

all i'm trying to do is break up some of this m1a/308 worship i see

I like my M1A no more than you apparently like your ARs and cowboy-style rifles and pistols.

especially when you got a guy who can hardly afford the fucking gun let alone to train with it

Sorry, how many people here can actually afford to train with an AR or AK right now? Financial abilities are relative. As I have said, it is possible to obtain a less expensive M1A and purchase economical milsurp ammo that works just fine.

even at that you only got a few hundred rounds through your rifle max and already your rounds wont chamber due to you needing to service your rifle

Based on what information? Go browse The Firing Line forums, and learn a bit more about what an M1A is capable of doing.

these ar's and ak's are shooting thousands of rounds with no maintenance before they have one malfunction Some are, some aren't. Depends on the make, ammo shot through them, etc. You are embellishing, by implying that all ARs and AKs will work flawlessly for thousands of rounds, in an attempt to prove your point. It's not working, and it's beneath you.

i'm not trying to be a dick, i just dont want to see guys o out and arm themselves with a system that is not as good in todays world and they cant afford to train or prep with

It is just as good today as it was when it was first manufactured. Better, in fact, with the accessories produced today. You seem to have a higher opinion of the AR, and that's fine. It has some strengths where the M1A is weak. However, the opposite is also very true. Ultimately, it's going to come down to what your needs are, and what your capabilities are. You just seem to think that no one should ever consider the M1A as their main rifle. You seem more biased against the M1A than I am when I support it. I never said that it didn't have certain drawbacks (like every other firearm). You're saying that it's not worth even considering. Big difference. Perhaps it doesn't work for you...that's cool. I hope you use what works for you. Just don't tell everyone else that it won't work for them, based on your own situation. 

[sledge]

To be sure the M1A is a formidable weapon.  If I could afford it right now I'd sure like to have one.  If I did it would be an over watch weapon.  But I don't think it would be my choice for foraging, scouting or patrolling. 

The reason is the 10 round magazine vrs the 30 on other weapons.  For me it's for my own feeling of well being.  Every time I would get close to the end of a magazine where I'd have to make a decision of when to change mags I'd start getting this pit in my stomach.

A 10 round mag means I'd get that pit a lot more often than I'd like.  Plus the length is a disadvantage when foraging through buildings.

It is a great weapon with a range the 5.56 AR's and AK's won't reach.  Use what you feel good about.    

   

[rah45]

To be sure the M1A is a formidable weapon.  If I could afford it right now I'd sure like to have one.  If I did it would be an over watch weapon.  But I don't think it would be my choice for foraging, scouting or patrolling. 

Exactly, every weapon has its strengths. I was advocating it because, in my opinion, it seems to be able to cover all the bases adequately. I tell people I think it's superior to others not because it can do everything best, but because it will do whatever job you need it to do. It has the capability to provide hard hits, very accurate long-range shots, and also a certain amount of suppressive fire as well as the ability to pierce certain types of "cover." If you stay at home the entire time SHTF lasts, that's great. However, I would rather be able to carry one rifle that does everything I need in a rifle. I will be carrying other supplies, and I don't need to carry two rifle with two different calibers to take care of a variety of jobs. One works best for me. 

The reason is the 10 round magazine vrs the 30 on other weapons.  For me it's for my own feeling of well being.  Every time I would get close to the end of a magazine where I'd have to make a decision of when to change mags I'd start getting this pit in my stomach.

A 10 round mag means I'd get that pit a lot more often than I'd like.  Plus the length is a disadvantage when foraging through buildings.

Not sure where you're getting your info, but the people who use the M1A usually use the 20-rd magazines. They are reliable, but not shipped with the firearm. Ther are also some 30-rd mags, but the ammunition is so heavy that no spring used thus far is capable of successfully pushing up all 30 rounds.

It is a great weapon with a range the 5.56 AR's and AK's won't reach.  Use what you feel good about.    

My thoughts, exactly.
   

[sledge]

I wasn't aware you could get high capacity mags for them now.  I guess because I haven't really looked that hard at them.

Let me say this though, there is no perfect weapon to accomplish all tasks.  Unless they've also cut the length on those things I really wouldn't feel good about going into a building with one.  I don't even feel good about going into a building with a standard AK.  I'll be keeping an aluminum shotty in a scabbard for that.

Another consideration is cover.  Generally the longer the weapon the more difficult it is to maintain majority body cover while engaging and firing from behind objects.  Not to mention moving from cover to cover with a larger weapon.  If you never had an awkward feeling, try moving from cover to cover while under fire.  You may be moving your ass but you feel awkward and slow as hell.  I suspect a longer weapon would amplify this feeling.

As I said the M1A has a reputation that was earned as a great MBR.  But don't expect it to accomplish all tasks well for you.  No weapon will.  You may find yourself in a situation where you're just making the best of what you have.  That's been successfully done before.          

[special-k]

Unless they've also cut the length on those things I really wouldn't feel good about going into a building with one......Another consideration is cover.  Generally the longer the weapon the more difficult it is to maintain majority body cover while engaging and firing from behind objects.  Not to mention moving from cover to cover with a larger weapon.  If you never had an awkward feeling, try moving from cover to cover while under fire.  You may be moving your ass but you feel awkward and slow as hell.  I suspect a longer weapon would amplify this feeling.

I'm seriously looking into Kel-Tec's RFB (.308 Bullpup).  I know what you're thinking, "Yeah, right, Kel-Tec, LOL!!"  Well, they have been on the market for a few years now, and the reports are all good.  Despite the brand, they seem to have the makings of a real battle worthy rifle.  Over-engineered if anything.

[rah45]

I wasn't aware you could get high capacity mags for them now.  I guess because I haven't really looked that hard at them.

Let me say this though, there is no perfect weapon to accomplish all tasks.

+1,000

 Unless they've also cut the length on those things I really wouldn't feel good about going into a building with one.  I don't even feel good about going into a building with a standard AK.  I'll be keeping an aluminum shotty in a scabbard for that.

Actually, Springfield Armory produces 4 versions of the M1A: the M1A Standard (22" length), the Scout/Squad (18"), the SOCOM 16 (16"), and the SOCOM II (16"). I wish I could have gotten a Scout/Squad instead of a Standard, but I couldn't find a good deal on it at the time and stocks were low online. The SOCOM versions have a completely redesigned gas system, and gets hotter more quickly on the supporting hand than the longer versions. Plus, their accuracy suffers drastically compared to the Standard version.

For clearing a building, I'll be using my pistol. Even a shotgun is too long, IMO. Cutting corners is a major concern with me. I like to see all that I can see ASAP while risking as little as possible. Unless I had a suppressed SBR or SBS, I wouldn't use a primary for that purpose.

Another consideration is cover.  Generally the longer the weapon the more difficult it is to maintain majority body cover while engaging and firing from behind objects.  Not to mention moving from cover to cover with a larger weapon.  If you never had an awkward feeling, try moving from cover to cover while under fire.  You may be moving your ass but you feel awkward and slow as hell.  I suspect a longer weapon would amplify this feeling.

As I said the M1A has a reputation that was earned as a great MBR.  But don't expect it to accomplish all tasks well for you.  No weapon will.  You may find yourself in a situation where you're just making the best of what you have.  That's been successfully done before.   

I completely agree with you. 

[rah45]

Unless they've also cut the length on those things I really wouldn't feel good about going into a building with one......Another consideration is cover.  Generally the longer the weapon the more difficult it is to maintain majority body cover while engaging and firing from behind objects.  Not to mention moving from cover to cover with a larger weapon.  If you never had an awkward feeling, try moving from cover to cover while under fire.  You may be moving your ass but you feel awkward and slow as hell.  I suspect a longer weapon would amplify this feeling.

I'm seriously looking into Kel-Tec's RFB (.308 Bullpup).  I know what you're thinking, "Yeah, right, Kel-Tec, LOL!!"  Well, they have been on the market for a few years now, and the reports are all good.  Despite the brand, they seem to have the makings of a real battle worthy rifle.  Over-engineered if anything.

Read this thread before you buy. Somebody had a "Ka-BOOM!" at the range with a brand-new Keltec RFB.

http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47502&hilit=Keltec+RFB

[sledge]

Unless they've also cut the length on those things I really wouldn't feel good about going into a building with one......Another consideration is cover.  Generally the longer the weapon the more difficult it is to maintain majority body cover while engaging and firing from behind objects.  Not to mention moving from cover to cover with a larger weapon.  If you never had an awkward feeling, try moving from cover to cover while under fire.  You may be moving your ass but you feel awkward and slow as hell.  I suspect a longer weapon would amplify this feeling.

I'm seriously looking into Kel-Tec's RFB (.308 Bullpup).  I know what you're thinking, "Yeah, right, Kel-Tec, LOL!!"  Well, they have been on the market for a few years now, and the reports are all good.  Despite the brand, they seem to have the makings of a real battle worthy rifle.  Over-engineered if anything.

Might be a good rifle special-k, IDK.  I'm kind of an old fashioned kind of guy.  I still can't believe they got rid of our vinyl records for these damn cassettes.   

[Ghost]

What's a cassette?

 

[special-k]

Read this thread before you buy. Somebody had a "Ka-BOOM!" at the range with a brand-new Keltec RFB.

http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47502&hilit=Keltec+RFB

Thanks for that link/info.  It is something to keep an eye on.  That being said, ANY production line can produce an occasional lemon.  That does seem to be the case here as this is not a reoccurring problem with the RFB.   

[Bobruffles]

Nutnfancy made a video about the RFB vs the .308 SCAR and the M1a.

[special-k]

Nutnfancy made a video about the RFB vs the .308 SCAR and the M1a.

Yeah, I watched the whole thing a while back.  On a side note, in that 4-part video series, you get to see what a POS Keltec's PMR-30 is.  Truly a POS!

[mountainredneck2051]

i have fired more than a few rounds through an m1a, and i wouldn't want to go into any urban battle with one

i'm not assuming that the 5.56 guy has a tactical advantage, all i was trying to say is fire superiority rules, m1a takes a major hit on that

yeah there are cheaper m1a's than the springfield, but they are not very good

sure you can get cheap mags and i'm sure they will work fine if you dont use em much, but if you really bang away with that thing and put thousands or rounds through it, the springfield armory mags have been the only ones that actually hold up 100% reliable according to 4 guys that i know who really shoot theirs

60 cents a round is crazy for foreign milsurp ball ammo
5.56 costs 25cents for m855
and i think the 5.56 is a more capable round than 308
it is better for warfare, i can hunt small game, i can hunt anything on north America with it

exactly my point you only got a couple rounds through your rifle due to your inability to get to the range and MONEY that shit costs too much for you me or everyone on here i know to really train on it with

i hunt with a 22 lever gun and a 6" 357magnum or my ar15
my ar15 is good out to 550yds wtf do i need a bolt gun for? 

you said your rifle wont feed all the german milsurp because your rifle needs maintenance, thats where that statement came from

not all ar's and ak's are gonna run thousands of rounds without flaw, but damn near all ak47's will and pretty much all modern ar15's that cost 750 and up will run that long without fucking up

actually it is not made as good today as it was when introduced, even the springfields are made using a weaker technology, but what i was trying to say with my original statement, what i was trying to say was that in todays world the battle rifle's use is pretty fucking limited

truth is there really isnt anything "realistic" that i cant do with an ar15 or ak47 that an m1a shines at
but there are more than a few things that the ar/ak platform excel at where the m1a is clumsy at best

[sledge]

i can hunt small game, i can hunt anything on north America with it (5.56)

You've got more guts than I do!   

You know how it has been forecast that people will be turning their dogs loose as they run out of money. (or thshtf)

What about the zoo's, circus animals, and all of these idiots who have exotic African animals roaming their fenced in ranches?

We're talking elephants, water buffalo, rhinoceros, baboons with 3" teeth, lions, tigers, polar bears and maybe even some pissed off panda's.  Yep Mountain, you're one brave MF.   

[mountainredneck2051]

i seen elk moose bear and mtn lion all drop like a sack of bricks when they took 1 round from a 16" ar15

know your weapon

[sledge]

i seen elk moose bear and mtn lion all drop like a sack of bricks when they took 1 round from a 16" ar15

know your weapon

I've heard stories of them all being dropped with a .22lr too.  That doesn't mean I'm gonna try it.  I'll leave that kind of stuff for you Mountain men.  Us low lands rednecks don't hunt anything taller than we are with anything less than a 30 caliber bullet.  LOL! 

[mountainredneck2051]

damn flatlanders and their 30 caliber bullets.................


although i am starting to really like this ak47 i got  [img]http://www.smileydesign.n

[sledge]

damn flatlanders and their 30 caliber bullets.................


although i am starting to really like this ak47 i got  [img]http://www.smileydesign.n

Yeah, I know you're an AR guy.  But let me tell you, picking up that AK for a backup gun was a really smart move.   [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co