Patriots Alert

[JoJo]

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2015/12/red-alert-patriots-mobilizing-nationally-confront-the-feds-in-oregon-3266120.html

URL says it all.

[Kentactic]

I can tell you first hand Pete Santilli is nobody to take orders from. He was obviously at the Bundy ranch and then I saw him again at the immigration protest in Menifee California.

I read beforeitsnews.com like a satire website. Not that I seek it out of course. The latest trend is to sick crazy right wingers on local and federal law enforcement on constitutional violations claims when they make you do things you don't want to do.

In the video linked Pete mentions a few names of participants. Blane Cooper was one. Blane is a hot headed felon that still carries around guns. I've had him tell me personally via Facebook that he'd beat the fuck out of me. This was his response to my argument against some nonsensical thing he said. If you recall, there was another felon at the Bundy ranch that ended up shooting police and holding up in a Walmart not long after the Bundy ranch was over.

My .02 is stay away from that nightmare.

[JoJo]

Ken I recieved it in an Email. I don't know how they got my address. Thanks for clueing me in on that sight.

[Kentactic]

Sorry I edited...lots more fun stuff.

[Kentactic]

There's a small loose group of guys that jump around from event to event fantasizing about standing up to the feds. Many don't have jobs. I've seen them go from the Mexican border to Oregon to Nevada to Montana etc. If you see it on fox news, they're probably there or heading there. They like most of us want to be part of something significant. They like most of us, hate the daily grind. They need shit to happen. They blow everything out of proportion. They are addicted to the fantasy and justifying their lifestyle.

At least that's my hunch....

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[JohnyMac]

Should be fun to watch 

[Nemo]

Follow up and more info regarding this.  Local news painting them as looney toons.

Nemo


http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/12/militiamen_ranchers_in_showdow.html

Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns

Les Zaitz | The Oregonian/OregonLive By Les Zaitz | The Oregonian/OregonLive
on December 30, 2015 at 5:00 AM, updated December 30, 2015 at 11:00 AM

BURNS – The strangers carrying the whisper of danger arrived in the vast territory of the Harney Basin just before the holidays.

Ammon Bundy once helped his father repulse the government in an armed showdown on a Nevada desert. He was Tasered for his effort.

Ryan Payne, an electrician from Montana, joined that same standoff and boasted of organizing civilians into sniper squads that drew a bead on federal agents.

And not long ago, Jon Ritzheimer worried the FBI with his threatening rants against Muslims in Arizona and elsewhere.

Now, the men say, they are in Burns to help Dwight and Steven Hammond.

The Hammonds are father and son ranchers, due to report to federal prison on Monday. They were convicted in 2012 of arson for lighting public land on fire adjacent to their ranch land south of Burns. They have been imprisoned once and must return for an additional term after federal appellate judges said they had been illegally sentenced the first time.

Self-styled patriots and militiamen gathering in Burns don't want that to happen, declaring the Hammonds' imprisonment illegal under the U.S. Constitution.

They have latched on to the Hammonds as their latest cause to stand against the federal government.

"I am here now trying to empower and motivate the people of this community to take a stand against tyranny and show them that I will gladly stand with them," Ritzheimer said.

The Hammonds don't want to be part of the outsiders' cause, and neither do many in Harney County.

But that hasn't stopped the strangers from summoning help from militia groups across the country. They are vague about their intention and their plans, unsettling the community and putting law enforcement on edge. The militia plan a rally and a parade on Saturday, circling the county courthouse that houses the sheriff's office.

The militia members have been insisting that Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward create a sanctuary so the Hammonds will be immune from surrendering. Ward met with the militiamen and rejected that demand. The militia has since labeled him an "enemy of the people." Ward said he has received emailed death threats among thousands of messages from across the country regarding the Hammonds.

Two weeks ago, Bundy and Payne roused 60 or so local citizens to their cause at a community meeting. They rented the Memorial Building at the fairgrounds for the night. They taped themselves lecturing the locals on their rights, on the Constitution, and on their duty to protect themselves.

The Harney County situation is the second time this year Oregon has been the national rallying point for militias. Last spring, miners fighting with the Bureau of Land Management over paperwork outside Medford found themselves enveloped with militia defenders. The miners finally issued a plea for militia members to go home. The militiamen did – but only after claiming they beat back the government. An administrative law judge temporarily stopped BLM action against the miners.

But the activists carrying pocket editions of the Constitution with them to Harney County are better known for the spectacle in Nevada in spring 2014.

The BLM was the bogeyman there too.

Nevada showdown

Militiamen by the hundreds flowed to Nevada that year to help rancher Cliven Bundy. The BLM was corralling his cattle that it said were trespassing on public land. The agency said Bundy hadn't paid grazing fees for 20 years, amassing more than $1 million in bills.

Payne, an Army veteran, came to the rancher's defense. In later interviews, Payne said he was the "militia adviser" to Bundy. Payne helped array armed civilians against the federal agents.

"We had counter-sniper positions on their sniper positions.  We had at least one guy—sometimes two guys—per BLM agent in there," Payne told a Montana weekly, the Independent.  "If they made one wrong move, every single BLM agent in that camp would've died."

Ammon Bundy, Cliven Bundy's third son, was there too.

As the nation watched, the BLM called off the cattle collection and withdrew in the face of the armed militia. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups across the country, said in a 2014 report on the Bundy standoff that the government's retreat empowered the militiamen.

Ryan Lenz with the law center was on the ground in Nevada and later interviewed Payne for the report. Lenz said the Harney County development isn't surprising.

 "What's happening is very much what everyone feared would happen in the aftermath of the Bundy standoff," Lenz said. "The rule of law was suspended with the barrel of a gun."

Aiding the Hammonds

Bundy and Payne say they met with both Dwight and Susan Hammond at their home in November. Bundy said he helped the ranchers move cows one day.

The Hammonds initially accepted the militia's offer of help to avoid prison, Bundy said. But the Hammonds changed their minds after being warned by federal prosecutors to stop communicating with the militia, Bundy wrote in a blog post.

The Hammonds declined interview requests and didn't respond to written questions about their dealings with the militiamen. A Boise lawyer representing the Hammonds said in a letter to the sheriff that Bundy didn't speak for the ranchers and that they intended to surrender as required.

Document: Hammond attorney letter

Bundy and Payne and their associates are persisting, though. They explain in deliberate, calm tones their reasoning.

The federal government claims title to most of the land in Harney County, the ninth largest county in the United States. Bundy and Payne maintain that Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 of the U.S. Constitution limits what the federal government can own, and that the government's claim to much of Harney County violates that limit. The federal government consequently has no authority to prosecute the Hammonds.

Bundy and Payne, who said he has moved to Harney County, have pressed the matter on several fronts. They have insisted that Ward, the sheriff, protect the Hammonds. They have written other elected officials in the county and in Oregon asserting the same demand.

Some residents have shown interest in the group's cause.

Locals voted seven of their own onto a new Harney County Committee of Safety, including ranchers, a retired fire chief, and a tax preparer.

Payne and Bundy said the committee would decide how to address the Hammond conflict. But Bundy quickly created a website for the group and drafted a sharply-worded letter to the sheriff for the committee to issue.

Citizens on the committee said they authorized none of it.

Local dissent

Chris Briels, Burns fire chief for 24 years, said he was intrigued by the constitutional arguments raised by Payne and Bundy. But he said he also felt pushed too hard by Bundy to act. Briels said he is no anarchist.

The militia, Briels said, "seems like a bunch of people ready to shoot.  I don't want that in my county."

Melodi Molt, a rancher and former president of Oregon CattleWomen, joined Briels on the new committee. She's troubled by what's happened to the Hammonds – but also worried about what her community faces with the outsiders.

"We're not from the militia," said Molt. "We're not going to come in with guns and overthrow the government."

The state's largest agriculture associations have vigorously defended the Hammonds since they were charged but want no part of the brewing militia action.

"I don't think people lining up in front of them with weapons or any kind of threats are going to help the Hammonds at all," said Barry Bushue, Oregon Farm Bureau president.

Billy Williams, Oregon's U.S. attorney, has also weighed in. In a lengthy statement to the Burns Times-Herald, Williams explained why the Hammonds were prosecuted. He then warned: "Any criminal behavior contemplated by those who may object to the court's mandate that harms someone will not be tolerated and will result in serious consequences."

Document: Statement by U.S. Attorney Billy Williams

Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.

"We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.

Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.

Tensions persist.

A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.

Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"

Others reply: "You are the militia."

One episode in particular has upset the community.

The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government. 

Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.

She had, they said, threatened them.

 -- Les Zaitz

[Kentactic]

So Ryan Payne is back at it...

If the Hammonds intend to turn themselves in then it will be a non-event.

Somebody get these vets a mall to secure or something..  They just want to feel needed.

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[JohnyMac]

It's an interesting "back story" that is shaping up for the new year. Notice - Nothing has been reported of this on the MSM or cable media.

Some thoughts from a crazy old man...

> My first inclination is to support the Militias role in help the Hammond's. Then once I look into the situation and understand what happened my
   support changes to curiosity - Curiosity of motive.
> I do look back to other forms of civil disobedience trumpeted in American history like, Incident on King Street, Boston Tea Party, Raid of Harper's
   Ferry, Bonus Army War, MLK Civil Rights Movement along with others comes to mind. In ALL cases only a small minority supported the "patriots"
   that fought in these skirmishes with the folks in power.

   Remember, the winners wright the history. Will these most recent skirmishes with the Federal government be looked back upon as Patriots rising
   up against tyranny or scoundrels seeing the limelight.
> Maybe Kentactic can wright to this speculation on this question: Are these Militia (men/women) just publicity seekers who like to be in the limelight
   playing to a very small crowd or do they genuinely believe in their cause (What ever that may be)?

Only time will tell so stay tuned 

     

[Nemo]

I like to think the "patriots" there are acting as they believe is proper to protest/prevent/resist improper, illegal, unconstitutional govt action.

As far as the ideas looking at it from the other side of the line, those are as many as the people looking at it.

Nemo

[JohnyMac]

This quote from John Locke's writing's comes to mind...

"Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate; we are
all qualified, entitled, and morally obliged to evaluate the conduct of our rulers. This political judgment, moreover, is not simply or primarily a right, but like self-preservation, a duty to God. As such it is a judgment that men cannot part with according to the God of Nature. It is the first and foremost of our inalienable rights without which we can preserve no other."

[Kentactic]

I believe that the militia believe they have a good cause. Unfortunately for them, I think they've got a lot of people supporting their cause or the general idea, and nothing worth doing in history ever really has a bunch of support. The idea is to make changes that the masses usually won't agree with at first because the masses are always going to be at the tail end of progress. The minority leads the majority slowly.. The minority can't do it without the majority unfortunately. The majority of force decides where things go. The minority must convince the majority that it needs X.

250 years ago a government based on the US Constitution was a radical cutting edge idea. Today the cutting edge idea is that not only do we not need a king to rule us but we don't need any form of government to rule us. Not even a constitutional one.

While the majority fights over what kinds of rulers they want, the minority hopes to lead them all to the conclusion that they don't need to be ruled at all. What we see in Oregon with the militia is just a small group bouncing around in the same 250 year old box of ideas that the majority has used for centuries.

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[JohnyMac]

Well written Ken. I agree with all of it. 

[Grudgie]

I believe that the militia believe they have a good cause. Unfortunately for them, I think they've got a lot of people supporting their cause or the general idea, and nothing worth doing in history ever really has a bunch of support. The idea is to make changes that the masses usually won't agree with at first because the masses are always going to be at the tail end of progress. The minority leads the majority slowly.. The minority can't do it without the majority unfortunately. The majority of force decides where things go. The minority must convince the majority that it needs X.

250 years ago a government based on the US Constitution was a radical cutting edge idea. Today the cutting edge idea is that not only do we not need a king to rule us but we don't need any form of government to rule us. Not even a constitutional one.

While the majority fights over what kinds of rulers they want, the minority hopes to lead them all to the conclusion that they don't need to be ruled at all. What we see in Oregon with the militia is just a small group bouncing around in the same 250 year old box of ideas that the majority has used for centuries.

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Very good summary.

[brat]

Most excellent Ken.....

[JoJo]

This thread has taught me so much and it is all hard to believe.  But I do. If there was a different president and the democrats were the party they were in the 70's I would say this was BS. Politicians have gone so far left that a conservative is now called an extreme right winger.
Keep us informed.

[crudos]

Sorry, I kinda duplicated some info, but here is HossUSMC view on this situation....

It is in the Tin Foil section of the forums. Members can see it.

[WhiskeyJack]

I am curious to see how the administration will will or wont use this current situation in the upcoming gun controll debate. 

[JohnyMac]

The next move on the Burn's chessboard was done by the FBI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb2E9SUVkh4&feature=youtu.be