what do you carry in your ruck

[thatGuy]

I have no Crovel experience, I do have a Russian issue spade that I have sharpened.. I'm fairly impresses with it... Now I've got to learn to throw it while back flipping...

[thedigininja]

I didn't actually think about the measurement implications. I was just thinking that the tablets would be easier to pack with less chance of spillage.

I also prefer the idea of iodine for personal use as that way you also have an effective disinfectant for possible wounds (I don't particularly want to pour chlorine into a gash in my leg).

I had a SADF spade which was as sturdy as a tanks under carriage but that has disappeared. Most of these commercially available compact shovels are terribly shoddy and I wouldn't trust them on a man's skull let alone a chunk of wood.

[graynomad]

A rule of thumb is that your pack should weigh no more than 1/3rd of your body weight, I used to walk with that amount of gear (about 65lbs) and it damn near killed me. OK you mil guys probably dream of such a light pack but whatever you are capable of if you have light gear you can go further, or alternatively carry more of it. Yes you can carry a lot more, but it stuffs your back and knees over time, although maybe that's not an issue for a one-off bug out.

So I will emphasis what Burt said, there are only three things you need to pack, lightness, lightness, and more lightness. Then when you think you have your pack as light as possible add more lightness.

These days I can go out indefinitely (in theory, the longest walk I've done is 10 days) with a pack weighing 40lbs plus water plus 1.6lbs of food (dehydes) per day. That's with a sleeping bag and mat, gas cooker, tent etc, in other words all the comforts of home  . I could reduce that possibly if I ditch the tent and use a poncho for shelter and rain and build a fire rather than have the stove, but at the expense of time, being observed (fire) and comfort. Also my tent only weighs 3.7lbs, is totally weather proof, and is self-supporting so I can pitch it on solid rock, a poncho and ground sheet probably weight almost as much. And another also, regardless of the weather I can cook in the tent's vestibule if I use the stove, no can do with a fire. That said the gas doesn't last that long so a fire is more sustainable, and fire wood doesn't weigh anything.

Hunting will reduce the food weight (assuming you are carrying a rifle anyway) but take a lot of time and effort, so whether or not that's worth it depends on if you are base camping or really have to get somewhere. It will also attract attention if you are using a large calibre rifle, not so of course with a 22 or snare.

I would add some camp shoes, just light tennis shoes or similar, it's a great morale boost to doff the heavy boots and walk around in cool shoes for the night. They are also useful when fording rivers as you really don't want to soak good boots if you can help it and bare feet are dangerous because if you react to a sharp rock or something the reaction can put you off balance.


I admit my walking to date has been recreational, a few days in the bush then home to a warm meal with a stop off at the pub on the way, a SHTF scenario will be different and I will be reviewing what I do when I get all the other things checked off my todo list, but the comments about lightness will always be valid.


EDIT:

I'll just leave this here...

Several things I wouldn't carry (chairs for example) but great graphic.

Speaking of chairs, you can always make one on site

[thatGuy]

Gray is on the mark! People often over estimate the weight they can carry and start pitching gear because its too heavy.

Unless you've built up that mental callous by hiking with a heavy pack I advise you to keep the weight under 1/4 of your body weight.

And yeah most shovels aren't worth a toss but that Russian spade is Speznaz approved!

And and, iodine has a nasty habit of overwhelming the thyroid... You're gonna have a bad time...

[JohnyMac]

Funny story to add to TG's comment on weight of your pack.

When I started the first days class at MVT my battle belt was kitted up.

> Nine full mags,
> Full Canteen
> Two SS .45 ACP Mag's
> One 1911 handgun
> IFAK
> HAM Radio & Mic
> Gerber Multi-tool
> Four canteen pouches loaded up with all kinds of goodies like, binoculars, GPS, snacks, AR
    cleaning kit, compass, etc. - You know "STUFF."

Plus my hanging from my shoulders was my AR which was loaded up with "stuff" like:
> Optics,
> Flashlight,
> Forearm rail, and
> Full mag

By the end of the first two ours my lower back was KILLING ME! I walked back to my truck and got rid of the following:

> 1911 mags
> 1911 handgun (We were not going to do any transfer drills between primary I to primary II)
> Three fully loaded AR mags,
> My canteen, as there was water available on the range,
> And "stuff" that was in my canteen pouches, like binoculars, GPS, compass, etc.

This did help me get through the day. 

The next day I checked the days activities and left in the truck what wasn't needed that day. 

What you "think" you can carry cut that weight by 1/4. 
   

[rah45]

Something I've been wondering...would you be better off carrying your rifle of choice, a couple of hundred rounds of ammo for it, and a pistol (w/suppressor and subsonic ammo?) chambered in .22lr for small game or quiet shooting? Would that negate the need for a concealable, larger caliber handgun that could very well prove more versatile?

Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better to carry a .22 pistol for small game/quiet shooting, a larger caliber pistol of your choice for larger threats, a knife/machete/'hawk, no rifle, and leave it at that. Much less heavy and cumbersome, and leaves your hands free. Plus, you can conceal both weapons.

[Burt Gummer]

Something I've been wondering...would you be better off carrying your rifle of choice, a couple of hundred rounds of ammo for it, and a pistol (w/suppressor and subsonic ammo?) chambered in .22lr for small game or quiet shooting? Would that negate the need for a concealable, larger caliber handgun that could very well prove more versatile?

Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better to carry a .22 pistol for small game/quiet shooting, a larger caliber pistol of your choice for larger threats, a knife/machete/'hawk, no rifle, and leave it at that. Much less heavy and cumbersome, and leaves your hands free. Plus, you can conceal both weapons.

That's a very prudent observation rah. While I like my 9mm and .308 I realized that i'd out calibered myself in a lot of situations during which less would do. That "less" would allow me to pack more ammo and be effective longer. Therefore I picked up the lightest .22 lr target pistol I could find .
Of course all this depends on event scenario. 

[thedigininja]

rah, I always try to think smaller and lighter wherever possible and as you say it's easier to conceal in case you find yourself in a situation where you may not want the presence of a firearm known. (Plus carrying 2 handguns increases the possibility that you might at some point end up flying through the air while firing two guns at the same time, not greatly but it does).

[Burt Gummer]

Plus carrying 2 handguns increases the possibility that you might at some point end up flying through the air while firing two guns at the same time, not greatly but it does.

Are we talking forward kick jump jumping?   Or fall back blasting?

[thedigininja]

I was thinking more along the lines of the sideways-throug-a-door-and-then-sliding-effortlessly-across-the-floor but forward kick jump is cool too.

[rah45]

Those pics aren't accurate for this conversation. The person flying through the air with guns blazing needs to be dirty, scraggly, bearded, with combat boots and a 40 lb pack on his back.

Which, of course, leads me back to the actual point of this thread, LOL. I'd really like different opinions, here. Joking aside, what do you guys really think about just pistols in your bug out pack (I'm referring to a get home bag, specifically), and no rifle? If it's WROL/TEOTWAWKI then yeah a rifle is a must,  but what if it's just your everyday carry pack?

Going Home by A. American featured the main protagonist with only a Springfield XD with a hefty pack. Seemed heavy enough for him without another 20-30 pounds of rifle and ammo. Also, his handgun, concealed, provided necessary surprise at key moments and proved very versatile.

It's just a fictional story of course, but there are plenty of real life stories where guys who KNOW how to effectively shoot their handgun have quickly put down an enemy. I'm talking war time and peace time stories. Of course, there are plenty of other stories where the handgun doesn't stop the enemy very well, either.

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[thatGuy]

In gonna throw in with Digi, the sideways flight and fight seems oh so much more entertaining providing you can pull off the effortless landing.

But to Rah's point, one I've given too damn much thought to. In a perfect world all things are suppressed, your carbine, your pistol and your other pistol. The usefulness of a suppressed .22 pistol reaches well past simple varmet shooting. I can imagine all manner of wet work being made much more successful with one as well as handling dogs and securing some meat for the spit.

While I don't currently own one you had better believe I am saving for one.

You raise an interesting question when you mention a pistol over a rifle. I recall (vaguely) an excellent write up of the Venezuelan collapse.. Maybe it was Venezuela, maybe it wasn't. Either way dude advised a high capacity semi auto pistol above all other forms of firearms for the reasons you've already mentioned.

If we are going to see a slow burn collapse with months of civil disobedience prior to the grand finally pistols are gonna be mandatory equipment and that seems more likely than waking up one day in a third world two way range... Just my 2 cents freely offered, take it for what it's worth.. 

p.s. Rah, we were typing our reply at the same time so to address your latest, in a 'get home' bag a silenced .22 pistol would be the cat's meow. Especially if you had a good holster and a button up shirt to conceal it with.

[Burt Gummer]

But to Rah's point, one I've given too damn much thought to. In a perfect world all things are suppressed, your carbine, your pistol and your other pistol. The usefulness of a suppressed .22 pistol reaches well past simple varmet shooting. I can imagine all manner of wet work being made much more successful with one as well as handling dogs and securing some meat for the spit.

As usual TG is right on the money.
I don't know how you guy's have your bag's organized but I have my main expensive pack at home while keeping a secondary less expensive "good enough" pack in my car with all your usual accoutrements found in said bag. minus the large dollar & sensitive items that I couldn't do without. that I keep in a supplemental pack I picked up at local thrift store. I did this because if it were to get stolen/confiscated I wouldn't be forced to shed a tear.
In here I keep my 10/22 TD Collapsible and a neat attachment:
and a oil filter for gun cleaning purposes. 
A full size 9mm pistol + light, M40 mask, & HAM radio. All this plus my concealed carry 9mm + laser I figured would give me the widest range of capability in most scenarios. Even allowing for my CC to become a buddy hand out if needed.
A PVS 14 is still on my wishlist...

[graynomad]

Man that 10/22 is a sweat-looking gun, hard to get a license for semis in Oz though

[rah45]

Burt, what is the "neat attachment?"

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[thedigininja]

Yeah, jokes aside, I think it comes down to personal preference and skill set. I would personally opt for a smaller, silenced pistol only. Once again this comes down to the weight factor and staying under the radar as much as possible. If you want something with more of a kick then I believe, as you said, that a larger calibre handgun is the more versatile option. I also know a few people who swear by tactical conversions for pistols but I haven't personally developed any love for them.

[thatGuy]

The real pisser is that a good .22 pistol will for whatever reason will outrange a larger caliber pistol. I've shot MK I and MK II Ruger's that were as accurate at 100m as a 10/22 rifle.

Hey Burt, you're right about your get home bag. I all about homebuilt spirit stoves, repurposed pots and containers because it would break my heart to have my fancy store bought kit stolen. The funny thing is that I've grown quite fond of the pop can stoves as my experience with them has increased.

[Burt Gummer]

The real pisser is that a good .22 pistol will for whatever reason will outrange a larger caliber pistol. I've shot MK I and MK II Ruger's that were as accurate at 100m as a 10/22 rifle.

Would have loved to be there for that. Scoped? Peep sights? I havn't pushed my 22/45 beyond 50-60yds although it groups excellent. Perhaps what you are describing is the benefit of having a bull barrel on a 22 pistol.

Hey Burt, you're right about your get home bag. I all about homebuilt spirit stoves, repurposed pots and containers because it would break my heart to have my fancy store bought kit stolen. The funny thing is that I've grown quite fond of the pop can stoves as my experience with them has increased.

What kind do you have? I keep a cheap Coleman burner in my pack and just in my trunk a spirit stove out of a paint can, + roll of TP. intended as a winter space heater.

Burt, what is the "neat attachment?"

It's sold as a "solvent trap"
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xsolvent+trap&_nkw=solvent+trap&_sacat=0&_from=R40

[thedigininja]

Today is a good day for preps. My mrs is getting me a good and compact first aid kit for my birthday. I found small, sealed bottles of liquid water purifiers and the new seeds I've been waiting for arrived. Also found a place that stocks AR15s (not terribly common down here in the asshole of the world) which isn't of much use to me right now but it's good to know.