Unchained Preppers
General Category => Gear Review => Topic started by: v0dka on April 28, 2013, 09:13:59 PM
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i have a ilbe ruck that i just got. I just started loading it up, I'm looking on input on what to stick in it. So far i have.
-2 rolls TP
-body wash
-tooth paste toothbrush
-2 lighters
-magnesium fire starter
-2 pairs of ear plugs
-5 wet fire
-2 glow sticks
-2flares
-space blanket
-utility rope.
-spare fixed knife
-assorted 5.56 greentip, ball and .45
-2 cans of beans
-5cans of mixed fruit
-fuckton of cliff bars
-nature valley bars
-4 packs of ramen noodles
-5 wise food storage meals (20 servings)
-tiger stripe camo bdus
-socks t-shirts etc..
-tarp
-sleeping bag
-4 dry bags
I think that is it. I plan on adding
-bls kit beefed up with lots soft tissue stuff and chest seals.
-replacing the ulitily rope with paracord and adding a climbing rope with the needed accessories.
-I'm trying to fit a Stanley FUBAR in there if i can
-a water bladder to add to my chest rig camelback.
-container of chlorine
-spare batteries.
The pack already is pretty heavy so i really dont want to add to much to it. Not to mention the added weight of my chest rig plus assault pack. Its probably close to 80 pounds all together.
I'm really looking to subtract weight even though there is things i need to add. Any input would be great.
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...I'm really looking to subtract weight even though there is things i need to add. Any input would be great.
Ditch the body wash for a soap bar. (less space and weight.)
A ferrocerium striker would be a little lighter and generally a better choice than the magnesium bar.
Flares?? Why??
Ditch ALL the canned food......too much water (and metal container) weight. Stick with dehydrated and/or freeze dried...maybe some MRE's.
GET A HEADLAMP or two...you'll wish you did later.
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Ditch the body wash for a soap bar. (less space and weight.)
Hmm i'll have to think about it the body wash that i am carrying is alot more then i need.
A ferrocerium striker would be a little lighter and generally a better choice than the magnesium bar.
Meh not worried that much about that, I'd loose the lighters if i was.
Flares?? Why??
lol......yeah i think i'm going to take those out.
Ditch ALL the canned food......too much water (and metal container) weight. Stick with dehydrated and/or freeze dried...maybe some MRE's.
I may ditch the beans but i;m keeping the fruit. The vitamin c is too valuable. I do have freeze dried food in there.
GET A HEADLAMP or two...you'll wish you did later.
I dislike headlamps simply because if i'm in a situation carrying this ruck i probably want to have as low as a signature as possible. I have excellent night vision, if i'm in true pitch black i doubt id be dicking around with something i'd need a headlamp for.
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V0dka, you totally need a headlamp, if you are interested in keeping a low signature, get a headlamp with a red filter, I have a Petzl and I love it.
Even having a great night vision you could end up tripping, that could end up fucking up one of your legs and you are screwed.
Besides, its useful if you need to get inside a building, or look something in a hole or whatever.
Man, there are things that is better to have and not need than need and not have, a light is one of those, I carry 2 light sources, a headlamp and a pocket light, considering the little weight it adds you must have one in your bag.
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If i'm running around with this pack i'll have my rifle which has a light on it. I know the whole you shouldn't be pointing your rifle at everything that might be scary. I'll have another light on me to use when i feel appropriate.
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Your rifle light for sure is white and extremely powerful, if you want a low profile, turning that on is a really bad idea.
Besides, when walking at night you need to check the floor, you'll end up flagging your companions and is going to tire your arms a lot to constantly move your rifle to light your way.
Why is that you dislike so much the headlamps? Maybe you need to try one
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How far have you carried it?
I fond that people adjust there rucksack a good bit after they carry it for a few miles spend the night then carry it back.
What kind of tarp? How you gonna heat that food? Ditto on the headlight, odds are when you are over night training you won't have your rifle (you should be camping with your ruck as many places as possible.) a headlight is MUCH more useful for normal stuff. What is the climate? Around here 6 months out of the year a hammock + poncho liner is preferred.
Extra clothese are a waste, carry extra socks and moleskin, maybe a t shirt Drop the underwear and carry some gold bond (might be an exception if you have good under armor UW)
Your BOK should be on your second line or first line not in your ruck.
Extra pistol ammo is a waste unless you're going to the range. If your carrying a rifle and have time to fill up mags you should be filling up rifle mags- your pistol is a backup. You should carry extra mags in a pouch on the outside. I'm a hypocrite here though, I keep 200 rounds in a battle pack deep inside- but that is mostly just to add weight for training purposes and if I have to BO quickly.
Water filtration. The chlorine is a start (actually a finish) you should have some coffee filters to get the particulates out first, and hard water bottles to do that in. I would suggest a real filter ASAP.
Lots of variables.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrZI_7mLysE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrZI_7mLysE)
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i have a ilbe ruck that i just got. I just started loading it up, I'm looking on input on what to stick in it. So far i have.
-2 rolls TP They better be the compressed type. If not, cut out the tube and flatten them. You're not going to have a tp roller.
-body wash Yes, bar soap. It last about 5x longer than body wash.
-tooth paste toothbrush 95% of Americans are calcium deficient so I doubt that fluoride is doing you any good. Ditch it for Ipsab tooth powder or baking soda. The Ipsab powder will last you about 3x longer than a tube of paste anyways.
-2 lighters Bics are great little lighters, but can't go wrong with something wind and water proof. Ditch the secondary and get some butane to refill.
-magnesium fire starter
-2 pairs of ear plugs
-5 wet fire
-2 glow sticks They're cheap, good for trail marking, and a helpful id trick if you select colors per member of a group. Get more.
-2flares Keep'em. In a pinch it might save your ass or at least create a quick distraction.
-space blanket
-utility rope.
-spare fixed knife
-assorted 5.56 greentip, ball and .45
-2 cans of beans Dehydrated foods.
-5cans of mixed fruit If you're worried about vitamin C I promise you a bottle of supplements will weigh less and also have less high fructore corn syrup.
-fuckton of cliff bars
-nature valley bars Ditch both. Look in to some Mainstay bars.
-4 packs of ramen noodles Again, dehydrated food. Not high sodium food that will dehydrate you.
-5 wise food storage meals (20 servings)
-tiger stripe camo bdus
-socks t-shirts etc..
-tarp
-sleeping bag The tarp and bag are great, but toss in a hammock.
-4 dry bags
I think that is it. I plan on adding
-bls kit beefed up with lots soft tissue stuff and chest seals.
-replacing the ulitily rope with paracord and adding a climbing rope with the needed accessories. Wise choice. Stuff ain't cheap though, but don't skimp on the essentials.
-I'm trying to fit a Stanley FUBAR in there if i can
-a water bladder to add to my chest rig camelback.
-container of chlorine Calcium hypochlorite. Pool shock. Make your own bleach as you go. Just store it well in an air tight container. The stuff is extremely corrosive and will permeate through materials over time.
-spare batteries.
The pack already is pretty heavy so i really dont want to add to much to it. Not to mention the added weight of my chest rig plus assault pack. Its probably close to 80 pounds all together.
I'm really looking to subtract weight even though there is things i need to add. Any input would be great. Consider caching. If it's an option. Go for it. We all have to face the issue of not being a camel or pack mule once in a while.
Good lord man. You packed like my wife. You planning to stay in a hotel while you're at it? :)) I'm just picking. Here are some suggestions.
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Special k hit it dead nuts. ....almost. I keep flares in all my packs for a variety of reason.
1. Fire starter, yeah sure you got a light or steel and magnesium but that shit wont help in the pouring rain. A flare on the other hand at 1k plus degrees will dry some shit out. I know I've done it lol.
2. Signal depending on situation a signal could save your life via rescue as well as distraction.
3. Ambush initiation. My crew knows red flare to the right or left of the kill zone means means shift/lift fire. ( not really I don't have a crew but you get the drift. )
Flares have their place. IMO
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I do NOT like those mainstay bars. Shit like that is just empty calories. You get no nutrients out of it and you gotta eat so many of the damn sugar cookies to get the calories. You are better off throwing in a few protein bars (350-450 cals per plus vitamins) and some multi vitamins. Check out MAINEPREPPER, he has a video talking about it.
Also as others have said go with dehydrated over canned for the weight/content. Also, an empty bag of mountain house is a lot easier to stow then an empty can of beefaroni. Think E&E, what you pack in you MUST pack out. Even burying stuff could potentially give you away. And think about your worst case scenario. You want stuff lighter/tighter so you can carry more.
If you go the MRE route, consider taking the entree and a couple other small essentials out of the big back. Sure it night be nice to have a couple of those meals with all the shit in them for comfort sake but its just adds up to weight/space.
LIGHTS:
Shit, this is a big one and I am a member of the LWA (Light Whore Anonymous, affiliated with gear whore anonymous lol). As stated weapon lights are powerful, sometimes bulky and usually attached to heavy things lol. Here are my arguments towards getting a headlamp:
1. Allows you to keep your hands free (biggy)
2. is most of the time very compact and lightweight
3. should give you just enough light for your PERSONAL space.
A headlamp is supposed to be used for personal illumination (maybe minor signaling in a pinch). It should just be bright enough to light the ground around your feet and a map in your hands, so you won't be needing an 800 lumen one! You can find ones for only 10-20 bucks that have both red and white LEDs on them. ***SIDE NOTE: something I heard from an eye doctor, a dim white light is better at preserving night vision than a bright red light. Here is a nifty link I found http://flashlightreviews.com/qa/nightvision.htm (http://flashlightreviews.com/qa/nightvision.htm)***
Now, as we are talking about being as light as possible, why not get a versatile light? I personally use the Streamlight Compact Sidewinder. It is designed for the military, has red, blue, white and IR (the MIL version, commercial I believe has green) lights with multiple intensity modes. The clip allows it to attach to MOLLE, and you can get mounts to place it on helmets and rails as well as a strap to use it like a headlamp!
(OK I'm done with that lol)
I definitely like and agree with a lot of what everyone else has added to the topic as well. Fight light but do it right.
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first of all your pack needs to be the right one for your purpose.
I would recommend a lightweight internal frame padded pack. These allow you to hold your heavier items near your center of ballance. such as placing the camel back near your back not on the outside of your pack (like that guy in the vid) This will make your pack significantly more controllable and comfortable by it also allows you to correct yourself faster when walking on uneven terain reducing the risk of injury.
I used to use an old tactical nylon pack on a modified Alice frame. boy was that a mistake.
Check these guys out.
Osprey (http://www.ospreypacks.com/en/segmentation/backpackinghiking) I use a Volt 60 myself
Gregory (http://gregorypacks.com/shop-men-backpacking?lang=default)
Kelty (http://www.kelty.com/c-backpacks.aspx#subcategory=internal-frame)
Deuter (http://www.deuter.com/US/us/backpacking-trekking-120.html)
There's lots of other great brands out there, these are just the big ones.
I would also recommend a camouflaged & waterproof pack cover tailored to your surroundings and season. Eberlestock (http://www.eberlestock.com/Backpack%20Accessories.htm#J1RC)
A lightweight TarpTera Nova (http://www.thepathfinderstore.com/competition-tarp-2-by-terra-nova-equipment/)
Lightweight sleeping pad Therm-a-Rest (http://www.cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/fast-and-light/z-lite/product)
An lightweight axe Gerber (http://www.gerbergear.com/content/search?SearchText=axe) or saw Bacho (http://www.bahco.com/english/products/laplander_1.html)
Are we noticing that everything is geared towards LIGHT WEIGHT because you just can't carry everything you need, just can't. But you can carry more if it's lighter.
Also some more uncommon items I've learned through trial and error are worth having.
-Inexpensive work gloves
-Beef Bullion cubes. Salt / moral
-Empty Gatorade bottle. For guys in the winter
-22lr platform. It's bullets weigh next to nothing and it saves you from packing food.
-Plate carrier/lbv/belt that does not interfere with your pack. If you've got bulky padding or buckles near your shoulder it's not going to work.
-Dry brown rice. Healthy lightweight (get rid of those Ramen)
-make sure your Camelback is removable from your pack in -0* temp or it will become and stay useless.
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I'll just leave this here... :thumbsUp:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/evp-4b5e023d5e288-a395f26c150e71e9ddd495fd7186310b/PrepperProject/bug-out-bag-big.jpg
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Great find Burt! Thanks :thumbsUp:
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Tampons.
I kid you not.
They weigh nothing work great as a fire starter and for a quick fix on bad wounds and if you're a gun guy then apparently you can use them to plug your barrels in bad weather. I'm also quite sure that they could be used for trade items.
Currently all that I have in my B.o.b. is
Tampons
Compass
Lighter
Bow and arrows
Knife
Socks
Rugged Smartphone
Small pack of seeds
Salt
However I do have a number of items that I will still be adding.
Hammock
Space blanket
Headlamp
Micro SD cards
Solar charger
Personal water filter
Bowstrings
And also need to restock on components for a small amount of thermite with some magnesium ribbon and busy making some poison for my arrows.
Has anyone tried the Crovel?
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@thedigininja
Headlamp :thumbsup:
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From what I gather you live in a heavily armed country with a history of violent unrest and of course suggest obtaining a firearm if the situation permits.
With your solar charger I would sugest knowing what it is you're wanting to charge and adjusting off of that. That being said I've got a Goal Zero Guide 10 myself and it's wonderful.
Headlamp :thumbsup:
I second that motion.
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:gunner: I agree that a firearm is a good idea, I have been looking into it but between the cost and all the red tape behind getting one in this country it just isn't an option at the moment. I'm sure that I'll get to the point that I'm so morally numbed that I'll fold and get a black market gun (it's actually easier than getting a legal one and at a fraction of the price).
That's a mighty decent solar charger. I'm personally looking for something a bit smaller. it really only has to charge my phone (for the info on my sd cards) and my headlamp on occasion.
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headlamp :thumbsup:
I recommend dumping the body wash - I prefer the small (hotel type) ivory soap bars. tons of uses, just add water and it won't leak.
One thing I like to add is pool shock (dry chlorine). great for purifying water and long shelf life (and it won't leak).
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One thing I like to add is pool shock (dry chlorine). great for purifying water and long shelf life (and it won't leak).
Great idea! Thanks Kbop for the tip.
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Hey thedigininja, I saw you mentioned poisoned arrow tips more than once and it sounds really interesting, could you please write a new thread teaching us a little about it?
Like what to use as poison, what happens if you eat a poisoned animal, what are the effects of the poison in a human, how to apply it, how long it last etc.
Thanks man
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:thumbsUp: apx
It would be a pleasure.
I personally like using plant extracts. I'll put some info together for you guys.
kbop, I like the idea of the dry chlorine, I'm assuming that you use the tablet form variety?
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Digi, You can also get it in a powdered form. It would be cool too to figure out your mix ratios so you could fix a plastic takeaway spoon to measure to make a liter of bleach or purify a canteen of water.
It sounds like you intend to forage until your garden comes in, you might want to add some snare wire to the list. A good hank of rope, a tarp and a tool like a machete, axe or saw would also go a long way towards improving the creature comforts of camp life.
I would also like to see some toilet paper, a haji wrap, towel, hat and sunglasses on that list... But I'm a desert rat..
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I was actually looking at some wire and wire fasteners today for snares. I have a small, basic camo tarp (it's an essential item for disappearing) that I can wear or sleep under.
I've also heard of people using dental floss for snares, anyone tried this? I like items that can have multiple uses.
As for having a tool with me, I haven't decided what would suit me best yet. I have a separate pack with a few of my swords, knives (other misc bits of sharp metal) which includes a machete that I could grab or ditch but I have been considering adding a Crovel to my b.o.b. the only problem is that I don't know anyone who has actually tried it.
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kbop, I like the idea of the dry chlorine, I'm assuming that you use the tablet form variety?
Like ThatGuy said - powdered. it is much easier to measure. google a mix ratio and put it in your kit.
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One thing I like to add is pool shock (dry chlorine). great for purifying water and long shelf life (and it won't leak).
Great idea! Thanks Kbop for the tip.
Make sure you get the high concentration Calcium Hypochlorite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_hypochlorite) version not the Sodium Hypochlorite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite). As it degrades less rapidly. Associated literature (http://www.klormansystems.com/calcium.pdf).
Stabile disinfection methods are probably more economical for a prepper's individual basis (Iodine). If you're preparing for a large group. Calcium Hypochlorite replaced when appropriate will be better.
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I have no Crovel experience, I do have a Russian issue spade that I have sharpened.. I'm fairly impresses with it... Now I've got to learn to throw it while back flipping...
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I didn't actually think about the measurement implications. I was just thinking that the tablets would be easier to pack with less chance of spillage.
I also prefer the idea of iodine for personal use as that way you also have an effective disinfectant for possible wounds (I don't particularly want to pour chlorine into a gash in my leg).
I had a SADF spade which was as sturdy as a tanks under carriage but that has disappeared. Most of these commercially available compact shovels are terribly shoddy and I wouldn't trust them on a man's skull let alone a chunk of wood.
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A rule of thumb is that your pack should weigh no more than 1/3rd of your body weight, I used to walk with that amount of gear (about 65lbs) and it damn near killed me. OK you mil guys probably dream of such a light pack but whatever you are capable of if you have light gear you can go further, or alternatively carry more of it. Yes you can carry a lot more, but it stuffs your back and knees over time, although maybe that's not an issue for a one-off bug out.
So I will emphasis what Burt said, there are only three things you need to pack, lightness, lightness, and more lightness. Then when you think you have your pack as light as possible add more lightness.
These days I can go out indefinitely (in theory, the longest walk I've done is 10 days) with a pack weighing 40lbs plus water plus 1.6lbs of food (dehydes) per day. That's with a sleeping bag and mat, gas cooker, tent etc, in other words all the comforts of home :). I could reduce that possibly if I ditch the tent and use a poncho for shelter and rain and build a fire rather than have the stove, but at the expense of time, being observed (fire) and comfort. Also my tent only weighs 3.7lbs, is totally weather proof, and is self-supporting so I can pitch it on solid rock, a poncho and ground sheet probably weight almost as much. And another also, regardless of the weather I can cook in the tent's vestibule if I use the stove, no can do with a fire. That said the gas doesn't last that long so a fire is more sustainable, and fire wood doesn't weigh anything.
Hunting will reduce the food weight (assuming you are carrying a rifle anyway) but take a lot of time and effort, so whether or not that's worth it depends on if you are base camping or really have to get somewhere. It will also attract attention if you are using a large calibre rifle, not so of course with a 22 or snare.
I would add some camp shoes, just light tennis shoes or similar, it's a great morale boost to doff the heavy boots and walk around in cool shoes for the night. They are also useful when fording rivers as you really don't want to soak good boots if you can help it and bare feet are dangerous because if you react to a sharp rock or something the reaction can put you off balance.
I admit my walking to date has been recreational, a few days in the bush then home to a warm meal with a stop off at the pub on the way, a SHTF scenario will be different and I will be reviewing what I do when I get all the other things checked off my todo list, but the comments about lightness will always be valid.
EDIT:
I'll just leave this here... :thumbsUp:
Several things I wouldn't carry (chairs for example) but great graphic.
Speaking of chairs, you can always make one on site :)
(http://robgray.com/photos/images/34714.jpg)
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Gray is on the mark! People often over estimate the weight they can carry and start pitching gear because its too heavy.
Unless you've built up that mental callous by hiking with a heavy pack I advise you to keep the weight under 1/4 of your body weight.
And yeah most shovels aren't worth a toss but that Russian spade is Speznaz approved!
And and, iodine has a nasty habit of overwhelming the thyroid... You're gonna have a bad time...
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Funny story to add to TG's comment on weight of your pack.
When I started the first days class at MVT my battle belt was kitted up.
> Nine full mags,
> Full Canteen
> Two SS .45 ACP Mag's
> One 1911 handgun
> IFAK
> HAM Radio & Mic
> Gerber Multi-tool
> Four canteen pouches loaded up with all kinds of goodies like, binoculars, GPS, snacks, AR
cleaning kit, compass, etc. - You know "STUFF."
Plus my hanging from my shoulders was my AR which was loaded up with "stuff" like:
> Optics,
> Flashlight,
> Forearm rail, and
> Full mag
By the end of the first two ours my lower back was KILLING ME! I walked back to my truck and got rid of the following:
> 1911 mags
> 1911 handgun (We were not going to do any transfer drills between primary I to primary II)
> Three fully loaded AR mags,
> My canteen, as there was water available on the range,
> And "stuff" that was in my canteen pouches, like binoculars, GPS, compass, etc.
This did help me get through the day. :dancingGrenade:
The next day I checked the days activities and left in the truck what wasn't needed that day. :dance:
What you "think" you can carry cut that weight by 1/4. ;)
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Something I've been wondering...would you be better off carrying your rifle of choice, a couple of hundred rounds of ammo for it, and a pistol (w/suppressor and subsonic ammo?) chambered in .22lr for small game or quiet shooting? Would that negate the need for a concealable, larger caliber handgun that could very well prove more versatile?
Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better to carry a .22 pistol for small game/quiet shooting, a larger caliber pistol of your choice for larger threats, a knife/machete/'hawk, no rifle, and leave it at that. Much less heavy and cumbersome, and leaves your hands free. Plus, you can conceal both weapons.
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Something I've been wondering...would you be better off carrying your rifle of choice, a couple of hundred rounds of ammo for it, and a pistol (w/suppressor and subsonic ammo?) chambered in .22lr for small game or quiet shooting? Would that negate the need for a concealable, larger caliber handgun that could very well prove more versatile?
Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better to carry a .22 pistol for small game/quiet shooting, a larger caliber pistol of your choice for larger threats, a knife/machete/'hawk, no rifle, and leave it at that. Much less heavy and cumbersome, and leaves your hands free. Plus, you can conceal both weapons.
That's a very prudent observation rah. While I like my 9mm and .308 I realized that i'd out calibered myself in a lot of situations during which less would do. That "less" would allow me to pack more ammo and be effective longer. Therefore I picked up the lightest .22 lr target pistol I could find .
Of course all this depends on event scenario.
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rah, I always try to think smaller and lighter wherever possible and as you say it's easier to conceal in case you find yourself in a situation where you may not want the presence of a firearm known. (Plus carrying 2 handguns increases the possibility that you might at some point end up flying through the air while firing two guns at the same time, not greatly but it does).
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Plus carrying 2 handguns increases the possibility that you might at some point end up flying through the air while firing two guns at the same time, not greatly but it does.
Are we talking forward kick jump jumping? Or fall back blasting?
(http://www.thehollywoodnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/the-other-guys-poster.jpg) (http://www.imagozone.com/var/albums/filme/The%20Matrix%20Reloaded/Matrix%20Reloaded022.jpg)
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I was thinking more along the lines of the sideways-throug-a-door-and-then-sliding-effortlessly-across-the-floor but forward kick jump is cool too.
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Those pics aren't accurate for this conversation. The person flying through the air with guns blazing needs to be dirty, scraggly, bearded, with combat boots and a 40 lb pack on his back.
Which, of course, leads me back to the actual point of this thread, LOL. I'd really like different opinions, here. Joking aside, what do you guys really think about just pistols in your bug out pack (I'm referring to a get home bag, specifically), and no rifle? If it's WROL/TEOTWAWKI then yeah a rifle is a must, but what if it's just your everyday carry pack?
Going Home by A. American featured the main protagonist with only a Springfield XD with a hefty pack. Seemed heavy enough for him without another 20-30 pounds of rifle and ammo. Also, his handgun, concealed, provided necessary surprise at key moments and proved very versatile.
It's just a fictional story of course, but there are plenty of real life stories where guys who KNOW how to effectively shoot their handgun have quickly put down an enemy. I'm talking war time and peace time stories. Of course, there are plenty of other stories where the handgun doesn't stop the enemy very well, either.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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In gonna throw in with Digi, the sideways flight and fight seems oh so much more entertaining providing you can pull off the effortless landing.
But to Rah's point, one I've given too damn much thought to. In a perfect world all things are suppressed, your carbine, your pistol and your other pistol. The usefulness of a suppressed .22 pistol reaches well past simple varmet shooting. I can imagine all manner of wet work being made much more successful with one as well as handling dogs and securing some meat for the spit.
While I don't currently own one you had better believe I am saving for one.
You raise an interesting question when you mention a pistol over a rifle. I recall (vaguely) an excellent write up of the Venezuelan collapse.. Maybe it was Venezuela, maybe it wasn't. Either way dude advised a high capacity semi auto pistol above all other forms of firearms for the reasons you've already mentioned.
If we are going to see a slow burn collapse with months of civil disobedience prior to the grand finally pistols are gonna be mandatory equipment and that seems more likely than waking up one day in a third world two way range... Just my 2 cents freely offered, take it for what it's worth..
p.s. Rah, we were typing our reply at the same time so to address your latest, in a 'get home' bag a silenced .22 pistol would be the cat's meow. Especially if you had a good holster and a button up shirt to conceal it with.
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But to Rah's point, one I've given too damn much thought to. In a perfect world all things are suppressed, your carbine, your pistol and your other pistol. The usefulness of a suppressed .22 pistol reaches well past simple varmet shooting. I can imagine all manner of wet work being made much more successful with one as well as handling dogs and securing some meat for the spit.
As usual TG is right on the money.
I don't know how you guy's have your bag's organized but I have my main expensive pack at home while keeping a secondary less expensive "good enough" pack in my car with all your usual accoutrements found in said bag. minus the large dollar & sensitive items that I couldn't do without. that I keep in a supplemental pack I picked up at local thrift store. I did this because if it were to get stolen/confiscated I wouldn't be forced to shed a tear.
In here I keep my 10/22 TD Collapsible (http://i.imgur.com/89wgArJ.jpg) and a neat attachment (http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTEwMVgxNDY4/z/HsUAAOxy4YdTTt3Z/$_57.JPG):
and a oil filter for gun cleaning purposes. ::)
A full size 9mm pistol (http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff103/odieodieodog/Cabela.jpg) + light (http://cdn.atlantictactical.com/images/uploads/p_INS4008_WL1-AA.jpg), M40 mask (http://www.legionsafety.com/images/T/mmfr-m40_1.jpg), & HAM radio (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GrKgPwcwR2g/UO-qI3VdoiI/AAAAAAAAAHw/wIFG_rwcLfY/s1600/VX6R.jpg). All this plus my concealed carry 9mm + laser (http://www.downrange.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/LG-449b.jpg) I figured would give me the widest range of capability in most scenarios. Even allowing for my CC to become a buddy hand out if needed.
A PVS 14 is still on my wishlist...
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Man that 10/22 is a sweat-looking gun, hard to get a license for semis in Oz though :(
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Burt, what is the "neat attachment?"
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Yeah, jokes aside, I think it comes down to personal preference and skill set. I would personally opt for a smaller, silenced pistol only. Once again this comes down to the weight factor and staying under the radar as much as possible. If you want something with more of a kick then I believe, as you said, that a larger calibre handgun is the more versatile option. I also know a few people who swear by tactical conversions for pistols but I haven't personally developed any love for them.
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The real pisser is that a good .22 pistol will for whatever reason will outrange a larger caliber pistol. I've shot MK I and MK II Ruger's that were as accurate at 100m as a 10/22 rifle.
Hey Burt, you're right about your get home bag. I all about homebuilt spirit stoves, repurposed pots and containers because it would break my heart to have my fancy store bought kit stolen. The funny thing is that I've grown quite fond of the pop can stoves as my experience with them has increased.
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The real pisser is that a good .22 pistol will for whatever reason will outrange a larger caliber pistol. I've shot MK I and MK II Ruger's that were as accurate at 100m as a 10/22 rifle.
Would have loved to be there for that. Scoped? Peep sights? I havn't pushed my 22/45 beyond 50-60yds although it groups excellent. Perhaps what you are describing is the benefit of having a bull barrel on a 22 pistol.
Hey Burt, you're right about your get home bag. I all about homebuilt spirit stoves, repurposed pots and containers because it would break my heart to have my fancy store bought kit stolen. The funny thing is that I've grown quite fond of the pop can stoves as my experience with them has increased.
What kind do you have? I keep a cheap Coleman burner in my pack and just in my trunk a spirit stove out of a paint can, + roll of TP. intended as a winter space heater.
Burt, what is the "neat attachment?"
It's sold as a "solvent trap"
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xsolvent+trap&_nkw=solvent+trap&_sacat=0&_from=R40 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xsolvent+trap&_nkw=solvent+trap&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
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Today is a good day for preps. My mrs is getting me a good and compact first aid kit for my birthday. I found small, sealed bottles of liquid water purifiers and the new seeds I've been waiting for arrived. Also found a place that stocks AR15s (not terribly common down here in the asshole of the world) which isn't of much use to me right now but it's good to know.