Light in TEOTWAWKI

[JohnyMac]

I originally posted this on NOLA's Candles / Fire post. I then thought it probably deserved its own post as I am sure folks on this forum are wondering, "What am I going to do for light." Thanks NOLA for spurring this discussion. 

OK gents, lets take this incident and learn from it.

What are you going to use when the electric goes out?

Candles - Poor light source and more fires are caused by candles than any other light source
Battery powered lamps - Good clean light however you need to be able to recharge them. How are you going to do that
         once the electric is out
Kerosene - Good light source and stores well but like candles can be dangerous
12 Volt florescent lights - Good source of light but how are you going to power them?

I will share with you what we are currently using at the BOL and have used for six years now.

1) We use kerosene in Aladdin Lamps: http://www.lehmans.com/store/Lights___Aladdin___Aladdin_Lamps___Aladdin_Aluminum_Shelf_Oil_Lamp___A2315#A2315A23152 and Ships lamps: http://www.ahoycaptain.com/shop/product1126.html

2) Next we use Coleman battery lamps: http://www.coleman.com/product/twin-high-power-led-lantern/2000001808?contextCategory=10451#.UEno9qCsGvM powered with NIMH rechargeable batteries: http://www.all-battery.com/4pcsDNiMHRechargeableBatteries-91119.aspx

3) Last we have 12 volt florescent lights in our old cabin which is now our reloading shed.

1a) If we were to live at the BOL 24/7 my estimate is we would use 55 gallons of kerosene a year for our six lamps. You can buy
      "off road" Kerosene cheaper (No tax) then the Kerosene you buy at the gas station.

2a) We recharge our lamp batteries via our solar charging system. It takes about 6 hours to recharge 4 D batteries and about
      half that time for AA & AAA batteries.

3a) We have one big ass solar panel that charges 3 group 27 marine deep cycle batteries. These deep cycle batteries provide
       power to charge drill & saw batteries, florescent lights, our D, C, AA, AAA batteries, and the Sirius radio. We also have a
       inverter hooked up to the system which gives us AC for small appliances.

I would be interested to hear what you are going to use.

[Grudgie]

I'll stick with my solar powered flashlight.

[thatGuy]

I'm going back and forth on this issue. I don't know where I want to stand!

I've got a buddy who is really good with Electricity and we are working together to develop a LED lighting system that charges capacitors with a solar panel. Capacitors survive more cycles than lead acid batteries.

For now we are socking away batteries, kerosene, candles, wicks and wax.

I'm looking at this from a sustainability view point instead of a prep view point. We want to get bee hives online next spring, they make wax. I'm also saving waste oil because it can power my foundry and smut lamps.

You don't want to burn heavy weight oil in a Kero lamp but you can.

[JohnyMac]

I have looked into bee hives too. The farmer across the road from the cabin is trying to talk me out of it do to the hives drawing bears. A farmer about 4 miles away who we buy sweet corn from just shot an est. 580 # (Game warden measured length and girth to come up with weight) black bear that was tearing apart his sweet corn field. A farmer about 4 miles the other way shot three black bears working on his sweet corn field and the State captured 2 more. I wonder where they trucked them to and let 'em go 

On the other hand; fresh bear meat would be OK in TEOTWAWKI too.  Lots of good bear fat plus the meat. I have only ever had ground bear meat which was used for burritos. It was good but oily. I hear that bear rib steaks are to die for. Sorry, getting off topic. 

I would be interested in how the capacitors do as we are on our second set of deep cycle batteries since we installed the solar set-up in 2006.

Ultimately the best value for the buck would be solar and batteries / capacitors however the glow from the florescent and Coleman lamps is very "white" and in my opinion tough on my eyes after a time. My wife just says I am a romantic at heart and prefer the yellow light that is put off by the kerosene lamps.

The Aladdin lamps, put off a nice 40 candlepower light BUT you have to watch them! They are finicky and if you turn them up to fast the mantle becomes all sooted up. I have found it takes a good 20 minutes of slowly turning them up till they give off all of their light and will not soot up. Its all about the inner wick heating up the kerosene to the point of a vapor which intern ignites and causes the mantles to glow. 

The ships lamps are about half as bright as the Aladdin ones but do not have mantles just a 2 1/2 to 3 inch wick that  you feed into a burner that makes the burning end of the wick round.

Lastly, to your point... I have a lot of mantles, wicks and chimneys in storage. My wife is clumsy and we go through a chimney or two each time she is at the cabin.  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

I am very interested what others plans are, or are going to be.

[Kentactic]

I think of everything in the worst case scenario since im in the city. But what are you guy's opinions on having lights left running after dark? Possibly a big attraction of the have nots? Even if you have a large perimeter around camp id imagine a light on the mountain or valley would be seen by everyone for miles. I took a 2 AA battery flashlight and spray painted the lense red so i can see things im doing with very little light or affect on my NV. I think it would be useful in the field aswell as in your home. My initial purpose for it was reading or doing calculations while on the bolt gun but of course it can be used for a lot more.

[JohnyMac]

In Patriots the windows were sealed with steel shutters and then a blanket was put over them. I think a blanket would suffice. 

I use a red lensed flashlight when walking to my deer stand in predawn. It helps my NV quite a bit.

[NOLA556]

I'm going back and forth on this issue. I don't know where I want to stand!

I've got a buddy who is really good with Electricity and we are working together to develop a LED lighting system that charges capacitors with a solar panel. Capacitors survive more cycles than lead acid batteries.

For now we are socking away batteries, kerosene, candles, wicks and wax.

I'm looking at this from a sustainability view point instead of a prep view point. We want to get bee hives online next spring, they make wax. I'm also saving waste oil because it can power my foundry and smut lamps.

You don't want to burn heavy weight oil in a Kero lamp but you can.

seems like a solid idea but *don't quote me here because it's not my forte* but I'm pretty sure a capacitor only releases it's stored energy all at once in one big surge. they're commonly used in things like motor-starters such as the AC compressor unit outside your house. the idea is to give the motor a kick-start when it first starts up because without that kick-start, there would be a huge surge in amperage as the unit tries to get started. this results in a tripped breaker after a couple of seconds, every time, without fail. thus, the need for a motor starter, (essentially just a switched capacitor)

so basically you'd just have a really bright light for a second or two until the capacitor was done dumping all it's stored energy.

I don't know if they even make capacitors that release a steady stream of juice instead of the one big surge that most of them produce. but like I said, I don't work with electronics, I just bring the juice from the source to the device.  if anyone can expand on this, I'd actually really like to hear it. interesting topic.

[Kentactic]

I know the capaciters ive had on big sound systems in cars in the past all held nearly no charge without direct flow of electricity from the battery being powered from the cars alternater. They had real time digital volt meters on them and one hard hit from bass would drop them way down, then it would jump right back up as the power supply recharged it within a second. Disconnect them from the power supply and the volts dropped quick without any power usage from the stereo.

[Outonowhere]

Sources from fire, i.e. oils, fats and such are going to probably be the best bet for long term.  You also have to think about fumes indoors depending on the type of fuel used, unlike the houses of ole which were often less "air tight".  You would also have to be very prepared to respond and quickly deal with a fire or even small explosion cause of the fuels.

Batteries offer a great flameless and odorless source for lighting options, but again there are drawbacks.
RECHARGABLES: You will obviously need a way to recharge them and they do eventually lose their capacity with time and use.
NON-RECHARGABLE: These batteries have a shelf life depending on what kind and brand you get.  Knock offs may save you money but will not last anything near what real brand name batteries and will not give you the output you need.

"Solar" lights are great personal lights, and by that I mean they will offer enough light for a single person's space.  The garden lights are great for lighting paths and even small areas indoors if you leave them to charge during the day.  And they seem to last, even through extreme weather.  Good buddy of mine has had the same 1-2 dollar walmart special solar light outside and its still putting out light like a champ!  It's just not a lot of light.

In conclusion I would recommend all of the above.  2 is 1 and 1 is none.  So I have kerosene lamps and candles, battery lights and lanterns with stockpiled batteries and a few solar lights.  Just remember that everything you have to have spare parts, bulbs, etc. for them.

Also forgot to mention.  I have a coleman 4 D cell LED lantern that works great.  But we all know that D batts are more expensive and sometimes harder to come across.  So here is something else good to have on hand...  I have several adapters that will allow me to use 2 AA batteries in the place of one D.  Now it wont last as long or probably be as bright as a D, but in a pinch its better than nothing.

[crudos]

What about the use of generator to recharge and power lighting systems? Maybe there should be a generator thread, if not already.

Since moving, just have candles and oil lamps for alternative lighting. Better than nothing, but far from ideal.

[JohnyMac]

Great suggestion OONW on the Walmart solar path lights. http://www.propane-generators.com/

There is a bunch of YT videos on line instructing you.

[thatGuy]

Ken and Nola,

You guys are both right about capacitors in the application you mention.

But what about those little remote controlled cars and helicoptors they are making these days that charge in 20 seconds and run for 3 minutes? It is possable to control the rate of release.

Did you guys see that DuraCell has new batteries that can be stored for 10 years?

http://news.pg.com/press-release/pg-corporate-announcements/duracell-reveals-its-biggest-battery-news-creation-iconic-c

Ken you're on it hard buddy, light discipline will be key post collapse. A burning candle or bulb will be like a neon sign that says "Hey I've got some stuff, come and take it."

[EJR914]

Yep, Ken is 100 percent right about light discipline especially post collapse, WROL, SHTF, or if the area you're in is known to be hostile.  A light can be seen for miles in some areas around this country.  Even if you're in an area like ours where trees block more long lines of sight, a light on inside a home in the wrong area, is like asking bad people to come take your crap and probably kill you or harm you and your family.  Light discipline is going to be key in a bad situation.  Just look at the importance the military puts on it during nighttime training.  I've also got a few flashlights with red lens that can be put on them as well, to help with your night vision while blocking some of the light.  If for some reason you just have to use light at night, keep it very short like a few seconds, and only use it while moving.  Try to not use it at all, as someone seeing a light can be the end of you.  Plus, its not above some people to see a light and just judge the distance and take a pot shot, either.    Good post, Ken.