Track Down and Destroy Looters

[EJR914]

I've always believed that if a community had a credible threat that they were about to get over-run by a band of attacking looters, that it would be fine to go and hit them first, hard, and make sure that your community was safe, but it appears history may show us that you even have to take it one step further.  I'm not a big fan of intervention, and I'd rather be on the defense, but here, it shows that when it comes to looters, history has shown us that the defense can only hold off so long, and that sooner or later, you have to take the fight to them, and completely destroy them, and take them off the map.

This is one of those moral questions that one must answer, and I have a feeling we may be dealing with it sometime soon.

Sipsey Street had this post today, with many links, the main one being from SurvivalBlog.com.

Praxis: The Defense of Farms in Rhodesia.
The incomparable Rawles gives us this article with many useful links: Could America's Farmers and Ranchers Face a Rhodesian Future? Read and learn. However, remember that individual homesteads can only delay organized looter bands. (See previous Sipsey Street posts on 18th century frontier "stations" here and here.) To break the back of organized looters you must have an organized and capable ready reserve to track them down and destroy them and/or track them to their own home fortifications and destroy them at the source. That is the lesson of late 18th Century Tennessee settlers.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2012/02/praxis-defense-of-farms-in-rhodesia.html

One of the embedded links is this post from SurivialBlog.com:

Could America's Farmers and Ranchers Face a Rhodesian Future?

I envision one possible future for America that is fairly bleak, at least in the short term. If the economy deteriorates the way that I anticipate, and if the power grids ever collapse, then it could trigger that dreaded "worst case" situation. Such a socioeconomic collapse could precipitate a large population die-off in metropolitan regions, a bit less in the suburbs, and even less in the countryside. But an extended period of lawlessness would still cause considerable loss of life and property in rural areas. There will surely be a lot of refugees from urban areas, and some of them will turn to looting, in order to survive. The new paradigm for American farmers and ranchers might resemble the security situation faced by farmers during Rhodesian Bush War of the 1970s.

http://survivalblog.com/2012/02/could-americas-farmers-and-ranchers-face-a-rhodesian-future.html

Also, these two posts about 18th century frontiersmen:

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/04/praxis-dog-killers.html

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/07/praxis-shipping-containers-and-hesco.html

Discuss.

[WhiteWolf]

I started typing up a long ass comment. Problem with this is, not that I don't agree, but you have to think about action and reaction here. I completely believe if you have to deal with looters, thieves, criminals, etc. you need to do it swiftly. The longer they're around the more time they have to analyze your strengths and weaknesses as well possibly test you. There are a number of possible ways of handling them without even lifting a firearm. The "Trojan Horse" approach with some of Dsarti's crazy ass videos as inspiration. There's also a scorched earth approach. Scarying them off. I've often considered buying some surplus Halloween gore.............hey, you've got to be creative. Nothing says "Oh shit!" Like fake blood all over the front porch and a fake skull on a stake. Maybe even a few limbs. Ya know, really gore it up lol.

Problem with the reaction is you have to be careful about what you're messing with. Are you defending from a group of six, or are you fighting off six from a group of 60? If some don't come back others will go looking. The other side of that is think about gang mentality. If you gain a reputation for taking out gang members and thugs then they might start looking at taking you out as "street cred" or whatever the phuck they call it nowadays.

When it comes to farmers and larger areas it's really hard to say. Not to be cruel, but it'd probably be wise to have guards watching over them. To the foreign eye the guards may appear to be inforcing the workers in fields.

Last thing, if you're really confronted with a group it could be beneficial to offer up a treaty. Might sound stupid, but it could work to your advantage in a number of ways. Even if it does just buy you time to plan an attack on them or lower their expectations of one occuring. Anyway which way you have to do it, be brilliant about it.

Best advice I can give is there is strength in numbers. Immediately after something occurs it'd be better to start getting people on board than waiting for things to calm down a little. That's why, despite some criticism, I believe my prepping goods aren't just for me and my family. If you can offer someone food, shelter, and security they can likely offer you work, loyality, respect, and hopefully a skillset in return. Oh, I don't mean guns though. I'm nice, I ain't stupid.

[mountainredneck2051]

indians used to use this tactic as a way to take you out aswell

steal your cows and lead them away, that way you and other men will go out looking to get them back while the real objective was just to draw you out so they dont have as many men to fight back at your community

they send you on a wild goose chase miles away then strike your homes while your gone

[hjmoosejaw]

        WhiteWolf said:..............." Last thing, if you're really confronted with a group it could be beneficial to offer up a treaty. Might sound stupid, but it could work to your advantage in a number of ways. Even if it does just buy you time to plan an attack on them or lower their expectations of one occuring. Anyway which way you have to do it, be brilliant about it. "

I like that idea. You could work something out ahead of time. Urban people eat, but they can't farm. Say a city has 10 gangs. You work out an agreement with one or two of them. They work with you, they share in some of your bounty after the SHTF. Tell them if they all band together and come after you, they may overtake you, but what they all get won't last. And they don't know how to get more. ( when I say "You", I mean you and your community ) If they work with you, they get an ongoing share for their group. They could be extra warriors. They could be your eyes and ears in the city. A warning system for you that something is about to happen. They could follow trouble up to your area and attack it from the rear. There could be some definite advantages to both groups. It doesn't even have to be gangs. It could be hunting clubs or any other groups. ........... Good post WW!  +1       

[EJR914]

indians used to use this tactic as a way to take you out aswell

steal your cows and lead them away, that way you and other men will go out looking to get them back while the real objective was just to draw you out so they dont have as many men to fight back at your community

they send you on a wild goose chase miles away then strike your homes while your gone

Interesting, MNT.  Thanks for the history lesson, I had not heard that.  Makes complete sense, though.

[EJR914]

Good posts, WW and Moose.   [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[NOLA556]

sry i'm responding to OP without reading the other comments.... I don't understand exactly why you'd have to take the fight to them. i mean, are we talking normal dumbass looters? or a roving biker gang from Mad Max? go google some pics of looters during Katrina. It'd be a phucking turkey shoot for a moderately trained rifleman. you gotta think bro, even if they manage to "organize" (lol), you really think they're going to have anywhere near the level of training and organization as a fellow like yourself who's made it a lifestyle to prepare for just such an occasion? it's doubtful that these marauding fools even understand the difference between cover and concealment, moving systematically (buddy teams)... etc.. a group of goons running down the middle of the street popping shots into the sky is just laughable. (and to give "looters" more credit than that is just silly IMHO) my bet's on the prepper.

PS.. I'm not saying that they're not a threat, or something to worry about. sure they are. I'm just saying that it's not like you're gonna be going up against SF or anything. [img]http://www.smileydesign.n

[sledge]

I think Nola's description of some looters is right.  Total asshats.  However,  I think it would be a mistake to view them all in this light.  There are a lot of veterans out there boys and there are going to be more soon assuming another war doesn't start up.  One trained veteran can turn a group of asshat looters into a group you should be concerned about with very little effort. 

They won't be the equivalent of a military platoon but they will be highly improved and show certain characteristics.  You should be able to recognize them by their tactics.  If you're unlucky enough to come across a group of looters made up primarily of ex military gone wolf to survive you are going to have your hands full regardless of what preparations you've made.

That sucks but it is the absolute truth.

 

[Outonowhere]

Moral of the story, make sure you have more wolves in your wolf pack!

 [url=http://yoursmiles.org/p-m

[mountainredneck2051]

i agree with both sledge and nola

however based on my AO i'm not really worried about gangs in general
i live in such an armed and prepared place as it is i don't think gangs will be a real issue, sure they might loot and win against some people. but when they roll up on a house and half of their guys get capped all for a few pounds of rice i think they will either all be killed off or give up the aggressive tactics and just go back to scavenging

sometimes i really think the wolf thing is off and its more like coyotes 

[EJR914]

I think Nola's description of some looters is right.  Total asshats.  However,  I think it would be a mistake to view them all in this light.  There are a lot of veterans out there boys and there are going to be more soon assuming another war doesn't start up.  One trained veteran can turn a group of asshat looters into a group you should be concerned about with very little effort. 

They won't be the equivalent of a military platoon but they will be highly improved and show certain characteristics.  You should be able to recognize them by their tactics.  If you're unlucky enough to come across a group of looters made up primarily of ex military gone wolf to survive you are going to have your hands full regardless of what preparations you've made.

That sucks but it is the absolute truth.

Yep, this is what I was thinking as well.  I'd much rather over-estimate their training and tactics, than underestimate them out of pride or arrogance.  Never underestimate your opponent. 

We are already seeing this in gangs here in America, ex-military are starting to train some of these gangs on tactics.