question about surplus rifles?

[backwoodsboy]

Ive never heard anyone say anything about this, but do you guys think that if the m4/m16 are replaced in the military for something else in the future will we be able to buy surplus m4/m16s from say a place like the cmp? and would these surplus rifles be cheaper in price from say a bushmaster ar 15?

[Kobalt]

From what I can gather, they will probably chop them up, let the NG play with them for awhile, and possibly sell the uppers. Don't forget the quality of m4s and m16s can vary due to the fact that the military rebuilds alot of them. If they did they would be truly be surplus rifles. You would have to pick out the good ones. In today's times, I don't think it will happen.

[Ghost]

So you're asking that if the military replaced the M4/M16, if that they would be on the market as surplus rifles, right?


It's possible, I guess. First thing is that they would have to have the select fire removed, and just be Safe/Semi, although I'm sure many would be sold as are, if they are sold in the first place. There is always the possibility that they keep most of them as a sort of "fall back", or issue them to select units, whatever. I don't see any coming onto the market for at least another 20, maybe 30 years.


But yeah, I think that it would be safe to assume that these surplus rifles would be cheaper than something brand new.

[backwoodsboy]

I dont think so either but it would be awesome if u could find one in good condition for a good price, but like u said theyll probably chop them up, or theyll end up in the hands of people who hate us. and yea frosty i agree itll probably be another 20-30 years if at all.

[JohnyMac]

Hell no. The US DOJ will sell them to the Mexian cartels. Law abiding citizens of the US will never see them.

[gapatriot]

due to current demil procedure you will never see any of them up for sale they will be cut into little pieces and sold as scrap. How many vietnam era m16a1's have you seen for sale? Some kits were available last summer but they were shipped here from vietnam, not government surplus sales.

[Mississippi]

I saw a vietnam era m16 at a gunshop, the tag had 600$ on it, almost got it but then i saw the tag also had "century arms international" I walked away and never looked back. Any one know how the century m1 garands are? Those were 800$.

[gapatriot]

Thats because it was one of the parts kit imported last summer!  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

[JohnyMac]

Keep in mind- Depending on your states laws, you can transform your AR15 into a semi auto/ full auto. You just need a federal machine gun stamp. Once you do so you can have your lower receiver reworked (Some minor milling is required) and buy a few accessories.

OR, get your stamp and buy a auto lower and a auto bolt. The stamp is only $200- a year or so.

RI will not honor federal machine gun stamps. PA will though. CA will not but TX will. Etc.

OR, I have heard this but I do not know if it is true: You can make a Lightening Link and register it with the feds, pay your $200- and now you have a full auto drop in accessory. Your weapon will only be full auto but you ain't worth your weight in salt if you can't shoot 2 -3 round bursts. Don't want your AR to be full auto anymore you take out the lightening Link. Takes under 30 seconds.

Now in full disclosure: If you have a lightening link in your possession and you do not have a Fed stamp you are in violation of federal law. 

With that said, in a TEOTWAWKI situation, probably Mr/Mrs BATF&E will not be knocking at your door if you have a lightening link. 

[gapatriot]

John, no F/A weapons can be produced by a manufacture or person for non LEO/military use after 1986. In some states a civi can get a stamp but its to purchase a registered pre-86 machine gun. Machine guns can be built by a manufacturer holding the right license and sot's but those are post samples and can only be transfered to military police or other sot holders.

[rah45]

John, no F/A weapons can be produced by a manufacture or person for non LEO/military use after 1986. In some states a civi can get a stamp but its to purchase a registered pre-86 machine gun. Machine guns can be built by a manufacturer holding the right license and sot's but those are post samples and can only be transfered to military police or other sot holders.

What about for those states that passed their own laws regulating firearms produced internally that do not leave the state?

[thatGuy]

To answer BWB's question, you can build your own semi-auto AR with better parts than go into a BushMaster for less than an off the shelf BushMaster.

So the surplus question is a not starter.

[backwoodsboy]

thanks everyone for the replys, and yea bushmasters are nice but they cost to much, and u can build a ar 15 for much cheaper. thatguy wasnt urs around 700$ for ur build?

[gapatriot]

Rah in theory yes you could but i dont think anyone has had the balls to do it yet. I ga passed the law I dont want to be the guy to test it out. Also some of the states that passed it, said in the bill that it did not pertain to full auto weapons and that fed regs still applied.

[JohnyMac]

Wildturkey, I thought I would report about what you can own not own; What you can manufacture or alter here as there is a lot of questions and maybe miss information out there.

I used this link if you want to read the whole thing. It is a good read: http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIF1.html

In summary:
> A citizen can not own a post-1986 machine gun or lightening link (Don't know how they would
   verify this one)
> If you qualify; your state and your local municipality allows; you can own a machine gun or
   devise. You must get written permission from your Chief of Police. There is a $200 tax you pay
   the government for the transfer. It is recommended that you keep the original transfer
   paperwork in a safe place and have with the machine gun a copy.

   Transfer of weapon or devise must be from a FFL that has a Class 3, SOT (Special Occupancy
   Taxpayer). Machine guns that meet FFL C&R (Type 3) standards, e.g. a WW II Sten or WW II
   BAR, still have to pay the weapon transfer tax but it is easier to obtain as they have gone
   through the FFL process.
> Now if you want to make or alter an existing weapon to make it a machine gun or produce a
   devise that makes your semi auto fully auto you need to have a class 2 SOT. Cost is $500- a
   year IF your revenue is less then $500,000- a year. You do not need to get permission to make
   or alter a weapon or devise but need to register it within 24 hrs of completion. If you do not
   renew your SOT yearly, you will loose the right to posses the post-'86 weapon or devise.

   I haven't looked at the application for the SOT however, I am sure you need to have an actual
   business complete with a business license, business address, etc.

So there you go. Easy to acquire and own a pre-'86 machine gun or devise then a post-'86 machine gun or devise. You just have be able to pass the background check, your state allows such ownership of said weapon, your town/ city Chief has to allow it and pay the $200- one time transfer fee. It is a bit tougher to own a post-'86 machine gun or devise.

Thank you Wildturkey for putting up a red flag on this one. I would hate for any SP member to get into any trouble with BATF&E   

I forget if it was Reaver or OONW who has expressed in the past that you don't need a fully auto AR or AK. Semi fire is more then adequate.

[thatGuy]

Yes Johny, semi-auto is more than adequate.

BWB, I'm into my rifle now for $780 +/- and the only cheap part I have on it is the tapco stock. I was at Sprawl-Mart last night and they had a BM carbine for just shy of $900.

For that kind of money I could almost build two no-namers (which BM is pretty close to) or one that was pretty trick. The coolest thing about the AR platform is that all the parts fit so nicely that you can get away with a lot more mixing and matching than most firearms will allow so shop smart dude. Whore up those adds and sales. You can buy all the pieces as a minor except the lower because its the only part that is legally a firearm. So get on it young man.

[backwoodsboy]

i would really like to build one but dont have funds for it, but in the future instead buying one i think id rather build my own. and btw thatguy i saw that video of where u shot what was i think a balloon. good shot for a moving target at a distance.

[gapatriot]

Johny thanks for posting that up man!!! Dont want any run ins with the alphabet soup agency lol! [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[RONSERESURPLUS]

hELLO ALL, RON L here

Yes, I agree with the Bulk of folks here that M-16's and M-4's won;t be getting in the hands of US Citizens any time soon? Of course that same Gov is more than happy to do the Fast and Furious thing and sell to foriegn drug dealers despots and more, just not to you and me? As in the case with the m-14 ya saw barrels and non reciever type items suplused I doubt we will even see parst as uncle sam will crush those long before he sells any to you and I? Semi auto aimed fire beats Full auto in so many cases! I'd still like an Select fire weapon, but with the ammo cost, as well as the legal ramifications and Tax $, pass! Once the shit hits the Fan and Laws won't matter, we can reconsider that option as thier will be a lot of that out there and lots of fools toting them who can be revieved of them? Stay within the law for as long as thier is the law? Thats my call?