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General Discussion / Re: Self Sufficiency - 2024 vs. 1776
« Last post by Searchboss on Today at 10:58:13 AM »
Pkveazey, I agree with you that this forum seems to have a great group of people on it. This has been a great discussion.

When it comes to forming a MAG, the people in it will probably be somewhat like a family or clan. The adage about us being able to choose our friends, but not being able to pick our family members comes to mind. It would be great if everyone in a MAG were close friends, but the truth is that unless it is a very small MAG, most will not be our chosen friends, but instead could be acquaintances who may be family members of our friends or neighbors who are members of the MAG. We may or may not particularly like them, but we will have to learn to live and work with them if the MAG is to succeed.

The key is that each member of the MAG has to be willing to pull their weight and contribute to the MAG in some way. This contribution will be different based on the individual?s skills and abilities. There needs to be enough able-bodied people available who are capable of, and willing to do the physically demanding tasks so they get done while others may contribute by doing other tasks that may be physically easier, but just as important.

Problems start when a member is perceived as not being an asset to the MAG. I think that every family has at least one member who is viewed as lazy or a slacker and does not want to do their chore which shifts the burden to the rest of the family members. Usually, a family will make excuses for that shirking member, but in the end, they are still a member of the family. A MAG will probably not be quite so forgiving.

This has been a productive thread. It has made me rethink the subject of MAGs again. I am glad to note that most of the comments are in line with my personal views of what a MAG is, so I may be looking at things through the right lens. How MAGs are managed seems to be a toss-up. Some people want more rules, some want less. Very few MAGs have or seem to be willing to adopt a written constitution, agreement, or set of values and basic rules that they all agree to follow. I think that this will become an impediment if the SHTF. They will have to try to figure out how to manage themselves and address the hard questions during the stress of a crisis as the situation quickly changes, as they always do. Each MAG is different and will have to figure out the best way for them to move forward.

For those of you who are in or have formed a MAG, please post from time to time about how your MAG is doing, how it is managed, and how it has changed. We can all learn from what others are doing, even if it is an example of what not to do.
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General Discussion / Re: Self Sufficiency - 2024 vs. 1776
« Last post by JohnyMac on Today at 10:03:55 AM »
Here is a good video exactly what we are talking about in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drAf4e7QuVo
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General Off Topic / Re: Silver
« Last post by pkveazey on May 17, 2024, 04:12:56 PM »
Wow! Silver is still going up. It's now at $31.50. At 5pm when the markets close for the weekend, it will be locked at the closing price until Sunday night when the markets reopen. I'm loving it.
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Pay It Forward/Other Deals / Re: work gloves, 12 @ 1.59ea.
« Last post by grizz on May 17, 2024, 03:36:37 PM »
They only have one size? I wonder if the run bigger or smaller than others
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General Off Topic / Re: Silver
« Last post by pkveazey on May 17, 2024, 02:46:57 PM »
I can't believe it: In just 2 hours Silver has made another leap and is now at $31.38 oz. This was not supposed to happen until the 4th quarter of 2024.
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General Discussion / Re: Self Sufficiency - 2024 vs. 1776
« Last post by pkveazey on May 17, 2024, 01:59:18 PM »
I read all these posts and really liked them. Each one of us has his/her own ideas about how we plan to survive. Rules: Rules are fine and necessary up to a point. Too many rules can be harmful. Just look at our own country. We started out with some really good basic rules and now we have a rule for every step we take. If it wasn't for all these people, we wouldn't need any damn rules. When all is said and done, just surviving is rule number one. I think that being quiet and observing people is the best method of deciding who I want to associate myself with in a SHTF scenario. It doesn't take long to find out who is an asset and who is a liability. I hang around here on Unchained Preppers because the folks that participate grab me as being OK and worth helping and being helped. My idea on surviving is to approach it based on my abilities based on my age, past training, and experience. Guess what? I have heirloom seeds and hybrid seeds but have no intention of planting a garden. Hell, I grew up on a farm and feel perfectly able to maintain a garden, but my seeds are for bartering with someone who is younger and more able to do garden work. Hey, here's a deal for you. I'll give you some seeds and you give me a negotiated percent of the harvested crop. Everybody wins and everybody survives. In that situation there is only one rule. Give me what you agreed to. In the end, I plan to survive as long as possible and hope to be the last man standing. I won't be, but that is my plan.
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General Discussion / Re: Self Sufficiency - 2024 vs. 1776
« Last post by Searchboss on May 17, 2024, 01:29:16 PM »
Just to stir the pot a bit more :stir: regarding MAGs, I?d like to see some discussion on the following:

What constitutes a MAG member? How does this compare to the MAGs you are familiar with?

Many years ago I was looking at joining a small rural MAG. I was still learning about MAGs at the time so it took several months to decide this. We would meet monthly at one member?s property, but they had no agenda for the meetings. Mostly we just talked about what they wanted to do. They told me that they had 4 primary members and their families. They claimed that they wanted to increase their members to enhance security should that become necessary. They had no written MAG agreement, no communication or security plan, and I got a slightly different description of what they had agreed their MAG was about when I talked with each individually, which was concerning.

I asked several times how many people the MAG was prepping for and got different answers each time I asked. Eventually, I was able to discover that there were a total of 21 people in their MAG. It broke down to Man #1 +wife, son & his wife, plus their toddler (5); Man #2 + wife, son & his wife plus 2 children, and his daughter + husband & their child (9); Man #3 + wife, son & wife (4); Man #4 + his elderly mother & father (3). This totals 4 men prepping for themselves plus 17 other uninvolved people. Is that reasonable?

I eventually found out that only two of their family members were passive preppers. None were involved in the MAG, and in many cases, these men had not mentioned that they were prepping for their family members and that they were expected to join them at their ?retreat?. Several times these guys stated that they just could not turn their non-prepper relatives away. As you can imagine, this was a show-stopper for me.

The reason I bring this scenario to your attention is that since then, I have found that most preppers do not define for themselves who they are prepping for, nor do they place a realistic limit on how many people their MAG can support. If you don?t know how many people are in your MAG and what their capabilities and liabilities are, how can you prepare to support them? Were these family members actually in the MAG? Should they be? There are so many unanswered questions related to this scenario. I mention it mainly to get people to think about the specifics of defining what a MAG is for and what a MAG member is. So, how does this compare to the MAGs you are familiar with?
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General Off Topic / Re: Silver
« Last post by pkveazey on May 17, 2024, 01:08:23 PM »
Holy Mackeral..... Silver just jumped to $30.84. Hmmmm.... Maybe this is the upswing that we've been waiting for. :popcorn:
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General Discussion / Re: Self Sufficiency - 2024 vs. 1776
« Last post by JohnyMac on May 17, 2024, 12:39:18 PM »
Yes rules are important. That is why when I facilitate an event, workshop, or meeting I produce an agenda. An agenda is a way of introducing rules at the beginning of a gathering. For the anti-rule folks, it is easy to accept.

The agenda includes,

Welcome,
House keeping (Rest rooms, trash removal, breaks, etc.)
The items to be covered,
   How long each items is
   Who is the sub facilitator of that item.
Any subjects to add to the days agenda
Topics/dates for the next meeting
Adjourn


By the way, I have a colleague who back in the late '90's belonged to a 2A rights political group. There were about 30 members and they produced a monthly newsletter that was loosely distributed among members and non members. The short version of this story is that one of the newsletters was found in Tim McVeigh's car after he was arrested.

Yup you got it, the FBI showed up at the President of the 2A rights house demanding the list of members names, addresses, etc. The President was savvy enough to ask for a search warrant which the FBI didn't have and left to get one. Once gone, he burnt all of the groups records.

The FBI did return with the proper paperwork and did their search. The only thing they left with was old copies of their newsletter. 

Yes but JohnyMac, we are only meeting to talk about self-sufficiency. Okay, tell that to Roman Catholic mom & dad's in Virginia.

Great discussion.  :thumbsUp:



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General Discussion / Re: Self Sufficiency - 2024 vs. 1776
« Last post by Searchboss on May 17, 2024, 09:08:35 AM »
Every time I bring up the subject of a written MAG agreement with any individual prepper or group they start prevaricating. Like most people, I dislike having to follow rules and adhering to policies set down by others. I think that it is just human nature to be as independent as possible.

Unfortunately, history has proven that people NEED rules that we can all agree to abide by to reduce interpersonal problems as much as possible. Without some common basis of agreement, there will always be misunderstanding or obfuscation of what was originally stated by the involved parties.

As an example, I have been a member of several clubs over the years that were typically governed by some form of Roberts Rules of Order as stated in their Constitution and By-laws. Occasionally at meetings, there was contention about some point. Roberts Rules of Order, as convoluted as they are, provided the basis for resolving the issue. As usual in a compromise, not everyone got what they wanted or was happy about the result, but in the end they agreed that the final decision was made following the rules all members agreed to abide by.

My point is that, in my opinion, any formal MAG that may need to self-govern in a long-term crisis scenario, particularly one that may be WROL, needs to have some form of written agreement about what their mutual goals and values are as well as how they shall be governed and make decisions as a group. Ideally, this should be done when the group is formed or shortly thereafter to give the MAG members some basic guidance as well as the basis for new members deciding if they want to join. Since the agreement is written and available to all members and all parties approved it when it was ratified or when they joined the MAG, there should be fewer points of contention.

Charley Hogwood wrote an excellent book on this subject titled ?The Survival Group Handbook? https://www.amazon.com/Survival-Group-Handbook-Organize-Situation/dp/149965264X.

I have always been a proponent of preparation and organization. Waiting until there is a problem to try to figure out how to resolve it during a crisis while everyone is stressed is a prescription for disaster. While it is an unsavory task and time-consuming, the MAG members should think things through and develop their MAG constitution, agreement, or action plan before it is needed. Leaving things up to chance is a bad idea.

An extreme example: If a MAG waits until the horde is approaching before talking about how they are going to support each other and where to set up a defense it will never get done in time. Conversely, if a MAG took the time to develop and disseminate to its members a viable local communications plan they should still be able to talk with each other when the power goes out.
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