Author Topic: AWB: An Act of War?  (Read 873 times)

CrystalHunter1989

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AWB: An Act of War?
« on: December 27, 2012, 11:23:41 PM »
Rhetoric on both sides has been heating up, most recently among "patriot blogs." Take this piece from TL In Exile: http://tlinexile.blogspot.com/2012/12/t ... began.html

The quotes and events he lines up for us are true, minus the bit about the DHS informant. The question for us: Is the passage of an AWB and enforcement via confiscation an act of war? Feinstein plans to introduce the bill on Jan 6, when Congress rejoins. Who knows if there will be a debate or not before a vote in the House?

Now look at this article by Kurt Hoffman: http://www.examiner.com/article/feinste ... nfiscation

Indeed, many people have come out in favor of seizing privately owned arms, from the judge in Arizona who sentenced Jared Loughdner, to the usual suspects in Hollywood and NYC. There is little consensus among the pro-gun crowd.

Those, such as Wayne LaPierre, who have defended the 2nd Amendment in the wake of Newtown have been labeled murders and crazies. They have received death threats or other forms of harassment. Rouge journalists, like the one in NY, have taken it upon themselves to brazenly attack harmless, lawful citizens by flooding the web with their personal info simply because they own a material object.

We are seeing a frenzy unlike anything since 911. Everyone wants more security, more peace, more perception of doing something no matter what the cost or who pays for it.

So, is the passage of an AWB and the enforcement via confiscation be considered cause for war, "casus belli"? Let's look at our own history.

The Revolution turned hot in April 1775 after the battles of Lexington and Concord. In July of that year, the Continental Congress published the Declaration of the Causes and Necessity of Taking Up Arms. It would be overshadowed by the Declaration of Independence one year later, almost to the day. The Declaration of Arms was to justify open war against the British government.

In a nutshell, here are some key provisions:

- The Parliament had exercised unconstitutional authority over the Colonies in the wake of the Seven Years War. This included sweeping power grabs such as the Declaratory Act, Quartering Act and Coercive Acts.

- Colonial grievances had been repeatedly submitted and ignored or rejected.

- Excessive taxation without equal representation in government.

- Use of the vice admiralty courts. These were jury-less tribunals that offered financial incentives to judges for smuggling convictions.

Based on this precedent, could you argue any of these today?

REPRESENTATION and TAXES
After Newtown, there still exists a complete media blackout on any positive stories about gun ownership. Despite statistics and anecdotal evidence to the contrary, the media would have you believe that no one does anything good with a gun. Many of us know better. Many do not. Television stations like Discovery began pulling all gun related shows from their lineup. Members of Congress previously given good ratings by the NRA began to turn coat on the issue, voicing support for new restrictions. Wayne LaPierre was heckled at his first press conference, and then we watched as his remarks were brushed aside as "whimsical" or "nonsensical." Larry Pratt withstood a barrage of vicious, ad hominem attacks by Piers Morgan in a courageous effort to put some logic into the public domain. The death threats continue to pour in. Now we have Demand A Plan airing adds calling for all kinds of bans on various guns. People like Michael Moore go as far as to blame all of it on "the white man's continued fear of black people." People in powerful positions, such as Feinstien, the judge in AZ and Bloomberg stating that not only are they in favor of confiscation, but that the government is quite capable of pulling it off. All of this doesn't take into effect the countless compromises that were made in every major gun bill since 1934, or the rising taxes on ammunition, guns or FFLs. Taxes also happens to tie right into the current debate on the rich "paying their fair share."

In my opinion, you can certainly argue that gun owners have not been represented effectively. They have been abandoned. If any of your have seen 12 Angry Men, you will recall this quote, "The defense never conducted a thorough cross-examination. He was appointed by the court to defend the boy. He didn't seem interested."

EXCESSIVE POWER
IL Governor Pat Quinn has vowed to fight the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals after it ordered his government to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. The court ruled that IL's sweeping ban in the name of public safety was not justified, either by statistical or anecdotal evidence. For as long as any of us can remember, IL is just one example of a government that ignores the Constitution. After 911 the nation passed such laws as the Patriot Act. Now we have the NDAA which allows indefinite detention of civilians by military powers without a jury trial. We have seen many times in recent history the use of excessive power on a variety of scales. Eddie Compass, ordering the confiscation of gun post-Katrina. Eric Holder, releasing two convicted Black Panthers from prison. Nancy Pelosi, ramrodding the Obamacare law through Congress and breaking numerous procedural rules to do it. There are also countless incidents of police departments stealing property through "asset forfeiture." The TSA on the other hand, simply takes what they want from checked luggage. There is also the issue of land seizures for public works or environmental protection, warrent-less wiretaps and SWAT raids based on rumors or faulty intelligence. CPS can take your kids based on an anonymous tip, which they don't have to prove or reveal the identify of.

You could argue that government on all levels, in many states, counties and towns, has exercised excessive power. As Washington said, "Government is not eloquence. It is force."

CLOSING THOUGHTS
The Declaration of Arms said nothing of independence. The Colonies wanted a reform of the English law system from within. Essentially, "We'll put down our guns after you do and listen to us." These actions were not taken lightly. There were several causes that pointed to one necessity. We must learn to articulate our thoughts and practices, even if the are always rejected by the other side. With that in mind, let's go over some commonly-seen talking points.

Leftist: If you want an assault rifle, join the army.

Us: The same army you've always wanted to downsize, underfund and berate for their performance in Afghanistan and Iraq? The same army that's fought for both of our rights, which you are now trying to steal? The same army you claim are a bunch of baby-killers?

Turncoat: You don't need an AR-15 for hunting.

Us: That's irrelevant to the principle of an individual's rights. It doesn't matter what I "need." I am a free man and I will spend my money however I choose, within the law.

Mother of dead child: My son was murdered with a gun.

Us: That was wrong and shouldn't have happened. No amount of laws will bring him back or prevent another murder in the future.

Statist: You fear the government!

Us: Yes I do, because they fear my gun. Every time they talk about guns it's always been about how to take more of them away. Our culture has told us that guns are not necessary for anything. This is because we have not been invaded since 1812, before America had a standing professional army. Switzerland, however, had been invaded multiple times. The government there sees the citizen as a necessity to maintain power. Therefore, they entrust firearms to the people for national defense. The people are not indoctrinated with fantasies of robbing banks or gang wars. They are told stories about how their fathers trained to fight Hapsburg family, Nazis and Communists. In America, the common man is seen as stupid and unhelpful.

Leftist: The 2nd Amendment is outdated and should be repealed.

Us: Just because we've been blessed to go for hundreds of years without a civil war or dictatorship doesn't mean the legislative safeguard is outdated. An attack on one right is an attack against all rights.

Leftist: So what if Hitler/Mao/Pol Pot/Stalin took all the guns? OUR government won't commit genocide.

Us: You haven't been paying attention. It's not the government who will wage genocide in America, it's Americans. For the last 30 years, rich, poor, black, white, Christian, Muslim, red and blue have been stirred against one another by fire-eaters on all sides. Everyone is afraid and angry at everyone else. We are now as polarized and balkanized as Yugoslavia. The left continues to call gun owners "murderers" and "mentally deranged." Some have even gone as far as to say, "too bad all NRA members can't be shot." Again, look at the reporter in NY who published the names of all gun owners in his state. This self-righteous zealot has committed a modern equivalent of lynching on innocent people. If the attack on Benghazi taught me anything, it's that this government will not protect it's own population. Every major riot in our history shows that, from Watts to Rodney King. To further drive the point home, look at the union fiasco in Wisconsin. The police disobeyed orders to clear the capitol building and sided with the protesters. Look at the 2008 election, when those who were not in favor of Obama were attacked by the mobs. America, a nation that hails the systemize slaughter of unborn children, is NOT above genocide on its own people. THAT's why the civilian ownership of military grade weapons is absolutely necessary. Because the last election showed there are enough people in the majority to vote on persecuting the other half.

Leftist: You're insane!

Us: And you're a traitorous Jacobin. We will not compromise on this issue any more. The Republic of the United States was not founded on the idea of collective punishment. The lawful should not have to pay for the actions of a few. We will fight tooth and nail to preserve this single right because factions and forces in this nation have demonstrated they are all too eager to strip us of the others.

Those are my thoughts. I'll leave the final decision to each of you.

Fun fact: AWB is an acronym which stands for Afrikaner Resistance Movement. If you hear someone voice support for an "AWB," ask them, "Why do you want the government creating a white-supremacist group?"

Offline Reaver

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Re: AWB: An Act of War?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2012, 11:27:47 PM »
It should be.

Will it be? Probably not.



Very well put together article BTW. +K for you.
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: AWB: An Act of War?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2012, 01:04:31 PM »
Crystal, neither page is available anymore...Interesting.

While in the Philly area for the holidays I was exposed to and involved in many interesting discussions on firearm ownership and what had transpired this year with mass shooting's. Most of my wife's relatives were pro AWB and they didn't hesitate stating that loudly when we were in the room.

Friday was our last family party with her relatives and we were at her cousins bar in the basement when the subject came up again. My wife's cousins husband, while tending the bar, pointed his fingers at me and made a comment...Something to the affect, "We all better watch what we say about the Pats as we have a gun nut here and he might shoot us."

Well all 15 or so folks were anti gun and PRO AWB and started with the AWB for the umpteenth time, when my wife finally held her hand up and said (rather loudly), "The only rifle I can shoot is a AR 15...Are you denying me a way of protecting myself?"

Well that shut everybody up. The conversation changed to the less then inspiring Eagles and no NHL this year BUT, a couple of the gals started to ask serious questions of my wife concerning her AR 15. The questions were not accusatory they were informational questions.  Which leads me to think that when a bunch of people are gathered in a crowd they take the most favored opinion. But when they can chat on a more 1:1 basis they are more open minded.

Christmas day we were at my brothers. My mom and her husband were there along with my brothers family. I don't know how the conversation started however my mom made a blanket statement that all Assault Weapons should be confiscated. Well my brother, wife and I responded with our usual defense of owning firearms and the topic died a pretty quick death.

Then over dinner we were talking politics and my mom say's, "I think we are headed for a revolution and it's about time." Well my brother turns to her and asks her, "So what are we supposed to fight the revolution with...Shotguns maybe Mom?" The entire table erupted with laughter including our step dad who ALWAYS agrees with our mom.

As the laughter slowed down our mom looked at my brother and I and said, "O-Kay, O-Kay you got me. I can see where you two are coming from."

The moral of both stories is...Don't be aggressive; however stand your ground and give logical arguments.
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CrystalHunter1989

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Re: AWB: An Act of War?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 04:31:23 PM »
Crystal, neither page is available anymore...Interesting.

While in the Philly area for the holidays I was exposed to and involved in many interesting discussions on firearm ownership and what had transpired this year with mass shooting's. Most of my wife's relatives were pro AWB and they didn't hesitate stating that loudly when we were in the room.

Friday was our last family party with her relatives and we were at her cousins bar in the basement when the subject came up again. My wife's cousins husband, while tending the bar, pointed his fingers at me and made a comment...Something to the affect, "We all better watch what we say about the Pats as we have a gun nut here and he might shoot us."

Well all 15 or so folks were anti gun and PRO AWB and started with the AWB for the umpteenth time, when my wife finally held her hand up and said (rather loudly), "The only rifle I can shoot is a AR 15...Are you denying me a way of protecting myself?"

Well that shut everybody up. The conversation changed to the less then inspiring Eagles and no NHL this year BUT, a couple of the gals started to ask serious questions of my wife concerning her AR 15. The questions were not accusatory they were informational questions.  Which leads me to think that when a bunch of people are gathered in a crowd they take the most favored opinion. But when they can chat on a more 1:1 basis they are more open minded.

Christmas day we were at my brothers. My mom and her husband were there along with my brothers family. I don't know how the conversation started however my mom made a blanket statement that all Assault Weapons should be confiscated. Well my brother, wife and I responded with our usual defense of owning firearms and the topic died a pretty quick death.

Then over dinner we were talking politics and my mom say's, "I think we are headed for a revolution and it's about time." Well my brother turns to her and asks her, "So what are we supposed to fight the revolution with...Shotguns maybe Mom?" The entire table erupted with laughter including our step dad who ALWAYS agrees with our mom.

As the laughter slowed down our mom looked at my brother and I and said, "O-Kay, O-Kay you got me. I can see where you two are coming from."

The moral of both stories is...Don't be aggressive; however stand your ground and give logical arguments.

Thanks for that. It gives me some more hope.

Offline Kentactic

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Re: AWB: An Act of War?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 05:22:00 PM »
Yep JM's story is a great example of the masses. The default answer is Ban everything. But after only a few seconds of common sense discussion they are easily corrected. People just want to ban out of fear. A simple chat usually converts them.
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Offline rah45

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Re: AWB: An Act of War?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2013, 10:26:40 AM »
Crystal, that was an amazing post. Thank you.

JM, thanks for sharing your story. Like Crystal said, it gives me hope, also.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: AWB: An Act of War?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2013, 10:46:06 AM »
I have been involved in business (Primarily retail) for over 40 years. It amazes me how many "knee jerk" reactions my past supervisors have made. Some examples are:

> Sales are down "Oh my God!" So lets...
    - Mark down everything!
> "Oh my God!" Margin is in the dumpster and we have to make up on expenses So lets...
    - Cut payroll!
> "Crap!" Just got several letters stating that customer service is poor in the stores. So lets...
    - Fire some folks
> "Oh my God!" Nobody in the stores has any product knowledge. So lets...
    - Spend a ton of money bringing the newly hired folks that we just hired to replace the folks we fired; up to speed on product
      knowledge.
> Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....

I was never a knee jerk kind of guy. Using the 'sales are down' example; I would get a few folks together from the field and try to figure out "why?" Once you know the why you can take action AND action can not be more than three things. If the action is more than three things it will fail.

Like what Ken wrote, "Yep JM's story is a great example of the masses. The default answer is Ban everything. But after only a few seconds of common sense discussion they are easily corrected. People just want to ban out of fear. A simple chat usually converts them." So take the time to talk to folks calmly and with facts.

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Offline Kentactic

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Re: AWB: An Act of War?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2013, 12:30:00 PM »
Im curious if we should just abandon the country as a loss like many have with places like CA because they have an AWB. Or is that suddenly not a factor of total loss when it affects people directly. You let them gas the jews eventually they come looking for you too. Well knock knock they are at your door now.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 12:38:07 PM by Kentactic »
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: AWB: An Act of War?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2013, 02:27:05 PM »
Ken, I read somewhere that CA. may have a 'exit tax' in the near future. The reason being - There are an estimated 8,000 people leaving CA. a day and Brown thinks that since they made their money in CA. that they should pay.

Again I don't know if this is true or not. Hey I just Googled it and this is what I found:

Quote
A ballot proposal is underway in California that would amend the State Constitution with a Wealth Tax. Specifically, this is an additional tax to be levied against high valued property, and high income (between 36.5% - 54.3% one-time tax) should a resident die, or decide to leave the State of California.


http://www.conservativecrusader.com/articles/exit-stage-left-california-s-proposed-departure-tax
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Offline Kentactic

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Re: AWB: An Act of War?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2013, 03:02:32 PM »
Ya JM ive hard a little about that. Its crazy.
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