What are the consequences?

[JoJo]

Lets say the SHTF and it lasts awhile. During this time you had to defend your home, family, camp or what ever and you had to kill the perpetrators. During this time there is no official law and there is no-one to report this to. How do you handle it and will there be reprecussions when civilization returns to a somewhat normal sociaty? 

[KillJoy]

Technically I believe that if you live even in a rural area during long term wrol, basic laws should be put into place by the remaining members of the community. The goal being to reestablish some sort of semblance and keeping everything civil. Is it not the goal to return rule of law to at least the most basic level at the community level?

In your scenario, even if there wasn't some sort of committee formed, or some form of trial to determine whether or not you were just/unjust. If you believe that the kill was justified under what you believe to be appropriate circumstances; move on about your life and thank your lucky stars you're the one who draws another breath. That's what I would do.

[Kentactic]

It feels like you are assuming that a government based society will inevitably return to power and that you fear their wrath. Yay or nay?

[Kbop]

Killjoy said it;  Be glad you and yours are alive.

If you believe that the kill was justified under what you believe to be appropriate circumstances; move on about your life and thank your lucky stars you're the one who draws another breath.

-
even with today's rule of law you still have the right to defend yourself.  Take a vow of poverty, treat dogs and cats kindly, repent, pay your bills on time, be nice to the inlaws.  Do what you need to do - but move on.

[JohnyMac]

Jojo, there are always repercussions even if you find yourself on the winning side. Just ask our men & women warriors who come home with PTSD.

It is in the nature of Man to form a series of laws. Whether it be something like the Ten Commandments or state/local statutes.
 

[JoJo]

It feels like you are assuming that a government based society will inevitably return to power and that you fear their wrath. Yay or nay?

Yay. I belive the government will survive but it will take time to return. When it does will it be corrupt and politically correct or will it be democratic.

[Well-Prepared Witch]

I think it's far too contextual a question to be able to answer.  It depends on how bad things got, how quickly things returned to "normal", what the circumstances of the killing were, etc.

[Nemo]

Based on the limited info that started this, I would remove those bodies from where they fell to a garbage pile a mile or 3 away.  I would consider and think nothing more about them.

I would not be concerned or worried about any follow up the next day, month, week or whenever.

About the only repercussions that would concern me is someone coming by the next day or 2 and asking why I killed his father and did not share some of my food.  I would make sure that person was aware of a bit of the invisible defensive positions and he should leave and not come back.

Should they ask about them and not indicate any knowledge of the situation I would simply deny knowledge of them coming by.

Nemo

[KillJoy]

It feels like you are assuming that a government based society will inevitably return to power and that you fear their wrath. Yay or nay?

Yes, it is an inevitability for human beings to form structure and to follow natural rights and at the very least "basic" laws to protect those rights. Whether that be on a wide spread scale or in the microcosm of their own individual community's. And it should be every reasonable persons goal to re-obtain and reestablish to some extent that structure for their community post-whatever wrol scenario d'jour. Anyone who states anything to the contrary is a straight up liar, or is a bobble-head. No sane person can say that they would prefer living in a society with out law and order, agriculture, medical infrastructure, some basis of an economy etc etc.

Fear who's wrath? I fear the wrath of nobody or no thing. 

[Kentactic]

It feels like you are assuming that a government based society will inevitably return to power and that you fear their wrath. Yay or nay?

Yes, it is an inevitability for human beings to form structure and to follow natural rights and at the very least "basic" laws to protect those rights. Whether that be on a wide spread scale or in the microcosm of their own individual community's. And it should be every reasonable persons goal to re-obtain and reestablish to some extent that structure for their community post-whatever wrol scenario d'jour. Anyone who states anything to the contrary is a straight up liar, or is a bobble-head. No sane person can say that they would prefer living in a society with out law and order, agriculture, medical infrastructure, some basis of an economy etc etc.

Fear who's wrath? I fear the wrath of nobody or no thing.

So it is your personal assumption that only government can provide order, infrastructure, medical care etc?

If that is true, No offense but you are either lying or you're a bobble head.

Laws require violating the natural rights of the individual because laws require government which requires taxation and enforcement of the laws.

It cracks me up when people claim that laws protect rights and they conveniently ignore the immediate violatation of the individuals Natural Rights in order to do so.

Once it is pointed out to them, they will typically rant about how a society without these violent attacks on the individual will result in a chaotic society with the potential for violent attacks on the individual by either small time criminals run wild or big corparate or cartel like powers rising up and potentially doing what they want the government to do with a much heavier hand and effectiveness. (Read this paragraph a couple more times if something didn't just click).

What it all comes down to for the statist is a combination of lack of knowledge and government brainwashing. Some don't have the ability to think of life without government in it. Others are willfully ignorant because its just easier. Or you could be like me and just be waiting for the right info to find you to help you understand why you feel so internally conflicted as a constitutionalist.

[KillJoy]

Please point out the exact moment I stated anything about government? You strike me as the type of dude that likes to shout and fight just for the sake of it. You are creating a contextual argument that aligns with something you clearly believe strongly about (more power to you broseph, hold strong to your convictions). And also putting words into my mouth.

And don't Google me to death and argue by me stating natural rights and basic laws protecting them equals government...because that's simply not what I was implying. And I see what direction you're attempting to take this towards.

Tell me....do you prefer chaos and disorder?

[Kentactic]

Please point out the exact moment I stated anything about government? You strike me as the type of dude that likes to shout and fight just for the sake of it. You are creating a contextual argument that aligns with something you clearly believe strongly about (more power to you broseph, hold strong to your convictions). And also putting words into my mouth.

And don't Google me to death and argue by me stating natural rights and basic laws protecting them equals government...because that's simply not what I was implying. And I see what direction you're attempting to take this towards.

Tell me....do you prefer chaos and disorder?

Laws = Government

You stated that we need basic laws.

If you don't like your stance you are free to change it.

Natural rights however have nothing to do with government.

Are you mplying chaos and disorder without government? I already used that argument on behalf of the statist and explained why its a total contridiction. What else?


This is the problem... the statist doesn't even know when hes a statist...


Ive had this same "pop the statists cherry" conversation atleast 100 times by now. Lets just keep up the pace and not ask vague questions to give you more ammo and help you control the conversation. It will only slow down the process.

[KillJoy]

Natural law has nothing to do with government by definition. I'm really having a hard time understanding why you feel it so necessary to your well being to jump up my ass? I admire your passion and obviously you've crunched your books. But nothing I said was meant to be construed that I am a proponent for over reaching and over controlling government. I simply said that man should live by natural law and form structure, law and order, and reestablishment of such systems that allow prosperity in their community's post wrol. That is my stance.

If you don't align with that, fantastic dude. That remains one of the amazing aspect of this country. An aspect that is...wait for it....a right enforceable by laws.

Am I a "statist"? No. Do I believe in structure and order? Abso-fuckin-lutley. I am not implying, I am stating with fact that chaos and disorder inherently come without STRUCTURE. And any cowboy who brings anarchy and chaos into my community post-collapse will be receiving one between the eyes.

[Kentactic]

Natural law has nothing to do with government by definition. I'm really having a hard time understanding why you feel it so necessary to your well being to jump up my ass? I admire your passion and obviously you've crunched your books. But nothing I said was meant to be construed that I am a proponent for over reaching and over controlling government. I simply said that man should live by natural law and form structure, law and order, and reestablishment of such systems that allow prosperity in their community's post wrol. That is my stance.

If you don't align with that, fantastic dude. That remains one of the amazing aspect of this country. An aspect that is...wait for it....a right enforceable by laws.

Am I a "statist"? No. Do I believe in structure and order? Abso-fuckin-lutley. I am not implying, I am stating with fact that chaos and disorder inherently come without STRUCTURE. And any cowboy who brings anarchy and chaos into my community post-collapse will be receiving one between the eyes.

I didn't jump on your ass brother. You stated something that I believe to be false, so I responded to it. You may not have understood exactly what you were stating at the time but I believe you have a better idea now so that was worth my response alone.

If there is an over-reaching government then there must be an under-reaching government. I don't believe that to be true. Government is an over each by merely existing in any minimal, reduced form.

It is vital for the prepper community to understand the flaws in humanity so that they can avoid repeating them. There is no point in prepping to survive a government collapse for example, if they'll just be clambering to rebuild a government.

[Burt Gummer]

Lets say the SHTF and it lasts awhile. During this time you had to defend your home, family, camp or what ever and you had to kill the perpetrators. During this time there is no official law and there is no-one to report this to. How do you handle it and will there be reprecussions when civilization returns to a somewhat normal sociaty? 

Post wrol event it becomes critical to supplant your old system of laws with a new one based on property rights. You need to publicly advocate this, this will then become publicly accepted and be grounds for legal use of force. IF the old invasive laws come back it won't be able to exercise it's self against you lest it upset the entire community which it can't allow it's self to do because it relies on public acceptance.
edit: spelling

[Kbop]

Good Idea Burt 

[Reaver]

Well, I leave the pikes and crucified  scum in place and start finding the deed for my new Manson.