Unchained Preppers
General Category => Security & Survival => Topic started by: sledge on January 18, 2012, 08:31:02 PM
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I can just hear the:
:o Oh crap. Old Sledge has has forgotten to take his old man medicine again today and here he goes with another one of those I forgot to take my meds senile posts. Well maybe, I can't seem to remember if I took those things this morning or not. :)
I've mentioned in a couple of different threads that most of the women in our group will be using .22 LR weapons. I'm sure most of you dismissed this out of hand as I would have myself in years past. But after having to actually think about how to accomplish a whole list of objectives in preparing for a tshtf situation. I came to the realization that I was using bias in my weapons selections.
After looking at tshtf as a big picture I came to realize that the .22 LR Semi Auto rifle was close to a perfect fit for a prepper concerned about defense of their AO. ( That's not to say I would recommend it as a guerrilla warfare weapon.)
These are the reasons I've arrived at this view.
It is a very inexpensive weapon system.
.22 LR in all of its variations is very cheap. 1,000 rounds can be had for under $50 making it no problem to reach bulk quantities in storage.
The round is very accurate and will do way more damage than you would think a bullet that size should.
It offers the ability to take small to medium size game. Larger game can be taken with a head shot.
The .22 is not a loud round. Meaning it will offer a degree of concealment because the sound of the weapon being fired will not travel as for as it will for a larger caliber.
Due to the lighter weight and smaller size of the weapon and the ammo they are less tiring to carry and more individual rounds can be carried easily.
A .22 LR round is quite capable of killing a man if hit in the head or the heart.
In a shtf world being hit by a .22 LR round anywhere is in essence a death sentence. Infection will set in and with out drugs and wound cleansers to combat the infection that person will either die or be disformed for the remainder of their short life. (The same will be true for ordinary scratches so it would be prudent to consider this in your preps.)
I know some will say, "But if you haven't hit them in the head or the heart they won't be incompacitated and will probably be able to continue the fight." In essence this is true. In practice, not so much. After taking a bullet to the torso of any size, unless their immediate life depends upon it or their is another strong motivating factor, the will to fight is over. In the fight or flight equation, flight immediately gains the upper hand in that persons mind if there is any opportunity to do so. Due to the infection factors mentioned in the previous paragraph. Without the proper medical care which will be unavailable that person will not be back to harass your group again.
These are my thoughts on the .22 LR as a prepper defensive MBR. If you have differing or additional thoughts on the subject please continue below.
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The .22 has killed a lot of critters, and people, and will continue to do so. 5-6 people with some 10-22's and some higher cap mags can do a hell of a lot of damage.
Can you imagine 10-15 rounds of .22 hitting you all over? No, it doesn't have range, or much kinetic energy, but someone tag you with a few of em across the chest/neck, you're goin' down for the count.
That said, Sledge, go take your old man pills, you're getting too rowdy again :))
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I don't know about you guys but I can raise hell on anything at 100 yards with my 10/22 and a 25 round mag.
Think about all those little stingers pissing you off while the big bore sets up his bipod and gets a bead.
the .22LR has a place. That is why I have one. :))
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If you have nothing else (like me) then hell yea.
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There are also some drop in .22LR conversions for 1911's and AR's.
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I agree 100%. If anything it's the one weakness I've really felt as far as my guns are concerned since I don't have one. With the unemployment situation I'd have a hard time justifying another gun to the wife. Most likely I'll opt for a nice like Henry lever action or this little guy. http://www.hyattgunstore.com/heckler-koch-mp5-22-22lr-carbine-25-round.html (http://www.hyattgunstore.com/heckler-koch-mp5-22-22lr-carbine-25-round.html) Though I can get a better deal on it than is shown.
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my 10/22 has 50rd mag hanging from it...............
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The ruger 10/22 is on my list. I think your absolutly right though the .22lr is great round to have. as it is i have a old bot action .22lr and over 3000 rnds. Not only will it put food on the table but i have no issues using it on someone if the need arises. My old Grandad used to say that a .22 requires immediate surgery. And "if its good enough for the mob then its good enough for me". I dont care who you are a gut shot from a .22 is the end of the road for you without real surgery. I personaly feel the .22 lr is an esential platform for any prepper.
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The ruger 10/22 is on my list. I think your absolutly right though the .22lr is great round to have. as it is i have a old bot action .22lr and over 3000 rnds. Not only will it put food on the table but i have no issues using it on someone if the need arises. My old Grandad used to say that a .22 requires immediate surgery. And "if its good enough for the mob then its good enough for me". I dont care who you are a gut shot from a .22 is the end of the road for you without real surgery. I personaly feel the .22 lr is an esential platform for any prepper.
Well said.
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My best friend from High School, had a uncle who lived in the Adirondacks. He used a .22LR to poach deer. When we would visit, he always had a full freezer of bambi. :))
It's like with any bullet, it's all about shot placement.
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Cool thing about a .22 lr is once that little sum bitch gets in it doesnt have the power to get out, so it kinda bounces around in whatever is hit. Any one that says a .22 aint shit hasnt seen anyone shot by one. I have a buddy that no shit has shot himself twice with a .22lr once in the foot when we were frog gigging(shooting) and the secound time he sliped and fell and took it thru the leg. The leg one damn near killed him it split the femoral art. he stuck his fingers in the holes to prevent bleeding out. He was in the hospital for about 3 weeks having all sorts of shit pumped out of his leg. .22 does alot more than people give it credit for.
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Don't forget that the .22 was originally released in 1887, making it one of the oldest firearm calibers still in active use around the world. Even in countries with the most strict gun control laws you can still get a .22. In WWII, the OSS used to issue High Standard pistols outfitted with suppressors to their agents.
The only problem I can possibly see is magazine cost for those of us who have such weapons, like the Henry Survival Rifle. For that reason, I still prefer the old fashion tube feeding system. Those guns are like revolvers: everything is self-contained.
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The .22 is still used to this day by several nations military as a highly suppressed weapon for taking out guards/dogs.
And I'm not condoning illegal activity, but I'm just sayin', it is rather simple to make things that'll quiet down a .22 pretty significantly. Knowledge isn't a crime.
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Words are pointless...
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Agreed, this is why I have a .22LR. :)
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my grandpa growning up in the swamp in louisiana was very poor, his dad died when he was 8 so it was up to him to feed himself, his mom,brothers and sisters. he killed alot of animals with it including many deer, he told me he would shoot them right behind the ear and it was over. and the point of me telling you this is im sure u can find alot of old folks that have done similar things.
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my grandpa growning up in the swamp in louisiana was very poor, his dad died when he was 8 so it was up to him to feed himself, his mom,brothers and sisters. he killed alot of animals with it including many deer, he told me he would shoot them right behind the ear and it was over. and the point of me telling you this is im sure u can find alot of old folks that have done similar things.
When my dads parents left him. all he had was a wristrocket
Eventually he got his hands on a .22
Then joined the army but that's besides the point. The point is.
Very very small projectiles have fed my father for quite a long time. The .22LR has a very near and dear spot in my heart. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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not trying to change the subject but why did they leave him? and where did he live on his own?
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not trying to change the subject but why did they leave him? and where did he live on his own?
Not really something that should be talked about kid.
[img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at your self.
One died the other ran off.
Central Florida
THE FUCKING SWAMPS BABY
where do you think I learned my ways?
Why do you Think Know I will survive no matter how bad the situation?
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sorry to hear that man, its a good thing your dad was a tough kid. your dad ever killed a deer with a 22?
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sorry to hear that man, its a good thing your dad was a tough kid. your dad ever killed a deer with a 22?
No comment.
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o lol, id kill for this one http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=021B&cid=025&tid=207&bg=x (http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=021B&cid=025&tid=207&bg=x)
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sorry to hear that man, its a good thing your dad was a tough kid. your dad ever killed a deer with a 22?
Hey bwb, Just a tip its not polite to go asking around about these issues.
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sorry to hear that man, its a good thing your dad was a tough kid. your dad ever killed a deer with a 22?
Hey bwb, Just a tip its not polite to go asking around about these issues.
He's still young. Like the brat that runs around the poker game inhaling 2nd hand smoke all night long.
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oops
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sorry to hear that man, its a good thing your dad was a tough kid. your dad ever killed a deer with a 22?
Hey bwb, Just a tip its not polite to go asking around about these issues.
He's still young. Like the brat that runs around the poker game inhaling 2nd hand smoke all night long.
Well at least he'll learn.
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The .22lr definitely has a place, but not as a defensive or main battle rifle. That's why God invented the M1A and the FN/FAL. The .22 bolt-action I have is to keep my belly full. [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
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Hello all, RON L here
Nope, while I see 22LR AS AN AWESOME ROUND AND CAPABLE OF SO MANY APPLICATIONS, I FEEL IT FALLS SHORT FOR A MBR! It will gather my Food, serve in a Pinch if I have no Others but will not take the Place of my AK or one day 308 semi auto! I do have Both a Good 22LR Rifle/Carbine i a Marlin Papoose and a Yet Unproven Sterling Target Pistol, this round will be used for applications outside main battle.
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LOL! There are those responses I thought would show up. Trust me, my AK's are not up for sale. But let me ask. What is the purpose of a defensive main battle rifle for not a guerrilla fighter, not a militia member, not a soldier, but a prepper looking to defend their supplies an/or family's living space?
What is the Main Battle Rifle supposed to accomplish for that person. To kill attackers, to dissuade attackers, the .22LR will accomplish that function. Other rifles will as well and I'm not saying something else wouldn't kill attackers more efficiently. But also at a much higher cost or investment. Plus I'll guarantee that when all other ammo is gone or unavailable and those larger weapons are reduced to being used for clubs. The .22LR will still be available to trade for. :)
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LOL! There are those responses I thought would show up. Trust me, my AK's are not up for sale. But let me ask. What is the purpose of a defensive main battle rifle for not a guerrilla fighter, not a militia member, not a soldier, but a prepper looking to defend their supplies an/or family's living space?
What is the Main Battle Rifle supposed to accomplish for that person. To kill attackers, to dissuade attackers, the .22LR will accomplish that function. Other rifles will as well and I'm not saying something else wouldn't kill attackers more efficiently. But also at a much higher cost or investment. Plus I'll guarantee that when all other ammo is gone or unavailable. The .22LR will still be available to trade for. :)
Trust me, I get the importance of a good .22lr. If I could I'd go back and make that the first gun I bought aside from my pistol. Now in their and my own defense here are a few reason I'd go with an AK or AR as my MBR.
#1 Effective range.
#2 Parts. Though I don't doubt there will be number of .22s out there the standard parts for an AR or AK will likely be more available.
#3 .22 Semi-automatics do not have the greatest life span and many are plagued with reoccuring issues. The S&W MP15-22 is a good example.
#4 I would strongly prefer a centerfire round over a rimfire. Personal preference, but I would feel for obvious reasons.
#5 Penetration. Namely level 3a or better depending on the ammo. This is mainly because of the numerous gun preppers out there that have BA. You can say a .22lr will do the job when applied to the face, but everyone knows the majority of fired rounds hit center mass and in a heated situation I doubt many will have the nerves to pull it off. Though who knows. I'm sure there are some professional ninjas in here. ::)
That said, it's a good choice for a woman who can't handle the weight or recoil of a standard AR or AK. They're great for cheap ammo, trading, small game, and just plain fun.
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LOL! There are those responses I thought would show up. Trust me, my AK's are not up for sale. But let me ask. What is the purpose of a defensive main battle rifle for not a guerrilla fighter, not a militia member, not a soldier, but a prepper looking to defend their supplies an/or family's living space?
What is the Main Battle Rifle supposed to accomplish for that person. To kill attackers, to dissuade attackers, the .22LR will accomplish that function. Other rifles will as well and I'm not saying something else wouldn't kill attackers more efficiently. But also at a much higher cost or investment. Plus I'll guarantee that when all other ammo is gone or unavailable. The .22LR will still be available to trade for. :)
#3 .22 Semi-automatics do not have the greatest life span and many are plagued with reoccuring issues. The S&W MP15-22 is a good example.
really? cause my dads ruger has about 100,000 rounds through it without a part changed out yet......
and with good mags and ammunition they run longer than a centerfire does without issue
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For some reason, out of nowhere, I started thinking about a copy of Ol' Yellar I read when I was a kid. Most of ya'll have probably never heard of that book. Anyway, there are some situations in some parts of the country where a .22LR just wouldn't do.
Looking down the barrel of my trusty .22LR at a charging brown bear would be one of those situations. :-\
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really? cause my dads ruger has about 100,000 rounds through it without a part changed out yet......
and with good mags and ammunition they run longer than a centerfire does without issue
Yeah, the gun shop I usually go to I've come across a few guys bitching about them and swayed me away from buying one altogether originally. That and one of my friends run the seventh largest gun store in America and he's had the same issues. It's like buying a coffee machine. You might have one for 25 years that serves you well. Then you might go through 2 or 3 that break in a matter of a year.
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really? cause my dads ruger has about 100,000 rounds through it without a part changed out yet......
and with good mags and ammunition they run longer than a centerfire does without issue
Yeah, the gun shop I usually go to I've come across a few guys bitching about them and swayed me away from buying one altogether originally. That and one of my friends run the seventh largest gun store in America and he's had the same issues. It's like buying a coffee machine. You might have one for 25 years that serves you well. Then you might go through 2 or 3 that break in a matter of a year.
There is some truth to that.
Marlin 60
Marlin Model 60W Repair Job !!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMsNtpGMsq8#)
Sorry, couldn't find one on the Ruger 10/22
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even though i have several 22s a browning t bolt is my next 22 buy, i was wondering, is a 22 mag worth the extra money you will spend on ammo? this is the next one i want http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=021B&cid=025&tid=207&bg=x (http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=021B&cid=025&tid=207&bg=x)
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BWB, for about the same $$$ you could put together a Frankensteined AR. Then buy a .22LR drop in bolt for your new AR. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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idk, its just me and having really nice guns that you can show your hunting buddies and be proud of. i want to buy high quality guns i can pass on if i ever have gandkids, i know when go to my hunting lease i feel good to get out of my dads truck with one of my grandpas guns.
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Gun snob [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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idk, its just me and having really nice guns that you can show your hunting buddies and be proud of. i want to buy high quality guns i can pass on if i ever have gandkids, i know when go to my hunting lease i feel good to get out of my dads truck with one of my grandpas guns.
$750 on a 22lr is just plain wrong [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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Hello all, ROn L here
While I do understand what Sledge is trying to say and is saying, I don't agree with it! I assume the tool box approach for firearms as tools and I like to use what I like and works best for it's use and mission, 22LR has it's place, just not as my MBR or weapon? I see 22 as a really wel established, over looked caliber, for my use other calibers serve well and better for me in some operations and use! On this we will just have to agree to disagree?
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Hello all, ROn L here
While I do understand what Sledge is trying to say and is saying, I don't agree with it! I assume the tool box approach for firearms as tools and I like to use what I like and works best for it's use and mission, 22LR has it's place, just not as my MBR or weapon? I see 22 as a really wel established, over looked caliber, for my use other calibers serve well and better for me in some operations and use! On this we will just have to agree to disagree?
i certainly wouldn't want one for protection
but if i was to pick a loadout I'd run a 10/22 with a 6" 357mag on my side
thats a winning combo right there
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Hello all, ROn L here
While I do understand what Sledge is trying to say and is saying, I don't agree with it! I assume the tool box approach for firearms as tools and I like to use what I like and works best for it's use and mission, 22LR has it's place, just not as my MBR or weapon? I see 22 as a really wel established, over looked caliber, for my use other calibers serve well and better for me in some operations and use! On this we will just have to agree to disagree?
i certainly wouldn't want one for protection
but if i was to pick a loadout I'd run a 10/22 with a 6" 357mag on my side
thats a winning combo right there
LOL! Yeah, I agree. It's amazing how a 6" 357mag adds to any loadout.
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More like a Frank'-N-Furter AR. HAHAHA! :D
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i love being a gun snob [url=http://yoursmiles.org/p-m
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Being a gun snob will get you killed, you spend all that money on whatever rifle and dont have enough ammo to protect yourself. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at I would rather have 3000 rounds of ammo and a wasr 10 than a arsenal and 500 rounds of ammo.
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lol thats a good point, but as me and my ancestors have always seen it is you should enjoy life and buy firearms you can appreciate. as for as guns with a nice price tag, well thats what i have daddy for. :))