Author Topic: Tactical response  (Read 4573 times)

Offline Kentactic

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Tactical response
« on: November 21, 2015, 06:21:36 PM »
Has anyone taken a Tactical response class? I feel like I've asked this before. If you have, do you recommend it? Fighting pistol will be near me in April and I'm considering signing up.

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Offline Nemo

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2015, 08:53:16 PM »
More specific info on the class you are considering please?

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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2015, 11:16:59 PM »
More specific info on the class you are considering please?

Nemo
The class is called fighting pistol.

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Offline Nemo

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2015, 11:36:13 PM »
Taught by?

Held at?

Range ?

Website or ??

Certs of instructor?

Nemo
If you need a second magazine, its time to call in air support.

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2015, 07:37:21 AM »
Tactical Response
Near Ken
Also near Ken
Google Tactical Response
Listed on web site


Offline Nemo

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2015, 09:43:38 AM »
Tactical response could be a bunch of types of classes from a bunch of places.

tacticalresponse.com would have been more than sufficient to point me where I wanted to go.  But I have looked at that site before and would very much like to join you in one of them.  First one would likely be the Fast and Accurate Pistol.

Keep in mind this is the guy, James Yeager, that got alot of jerks from the side "other" than us gave him a bunch of flak a year or 2 ago about his attempting to start an insurrection against the govt and questioned his certs.

Penny pile dedicated to that is growing but not quite there yet.

I thought I saw something there that made it $500 for one but $750 for 2 signing up together.  At the TN facility.  That would likely permit 2 of us to go for the weekend, including food, gas, motel and such for right at the $500 total.  HHMMMM.

Nemo
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 09:59:06 AM by Nemo »
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Offline Erick

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2015, 10:39:53 AM »
I didnt want to post at first because I have not had first hand experience.

Its one of those polarizing places.

I like their philosophy and where they stand ideologically.

They have gotten a lot of flak from more established places but they are not afraid to teach fire and movement which only few other places do.
Have never attended any of their classes though.

Also getting flak from the mainstream schools is not necessarily a bad thing since they all subscribe to the SWAT paradigm which is really a training misdirection for armed civilians.

Their prerequisite policy is kind of crazy, like for some of thier Advanced classes they require Their entry Fighting rifle class ( which admittedly looks like it covers the right things  from the description) OR be within last the year an active  Tier 1 SOCOM dude   (laughter)

In general their heart seems to be in the right place though..

PS:I really like Max Velocity Tactical.
I've gone there many many times once I found them as I was turned off by the Kris Costa type training mainstream.
.. MVT focuses on fire and movement and realistic learning and application of a Light Infantry curriculum as opposed to the  blue barrels and "tactical" transition dancing so beloved of the SWAT centric training providers.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 11:18:02 AM by Erick »
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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2015, 02:55:21 PM »
I don't know who the instructors will be for this particular class. I have an email in to them for that answer. As far as location I'm figuring it will be held at Angeles shooting range in Los Angeles. Before I sign up I need to verify that the same SWAT dude that teaches classes at this range, will not be teaching this class. I've already wasted $550 on him.

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Offline CJS06

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2015, 06:57:28 PM »
Kentactic
I am not a big fan of Tactical Response.  They have posted their philosophy, prerequisites, etc.  The problem is who the instructor you get is. There can be a very wide range of quality.  I have only a small amount of experience with them but find there to be a bit too much bluster and not enough substance.

As far as people teaching shooting and moving I have found the opposite.  Almost any decent instructor is teaching shooting, maneuver, cover, and space/time.  Some intro pistol courses or "level 1" courses may not get into it much but it generally depends on the level of the shooters that you have in the class you happen to be in.  Any instructor needs to always think SAFETY first and as a result you will find they often need to teach to the lowest skill set in the class not highest. The higher the course level this is not as much an issue. If an instructor is not concerned with this then DO NOT train with them....I have seen too many NDs/ADs and thankfully only 1 training related GSW and that was self inflicted.   

Erik I dont know which of the "mainstream" training courses follow the SWAT paradigm that you are describing. Almost any training is going to establish fundamental first then build.  I spend a probably inordinate ammount of time training with a wide variety of different instructors (Costa, Proctor, Smith, Cowan, Petty, Holland, Doyle, Mcnamara, etc) and their instruction is far from standardized. If anything it has moved away from an institutionalized format. As an example Will Petty's VCQB is probably a ton more realistic and more likely to be a situation that you will be in than utilizing light infantry tactics.  That doesnt mean I dont find those classes valuable as well. Most of those guys are doing small unit, small team (2-3 guys) courses as well. You may not see it on their course registration pages as they tend to be word of mouth out to shooters they have experience with because of that whole safety(....read liability) thing.  I would love to get down to take some Max Velocity classes as well. I really like he course of instruction that he seems to be developing and have heard nothing but good things.

For a very good pistol course that I have found really helped my skills to develop I would look at Frank Proctor, Nic Smith, or Mike Panone. If I were to suggest one I would probably start with Proctor or Panone. Panone gets out to LA on a fairly regular basis. Nic Smith is currently overseas and when he is home instructs mostly on the East Coast....though he is possibly moving out to So.Cal and will be teaching more on the Left Coast.

In the end get something out of whatever training you attend TR, MV, whatever.  Travel is the one thing that adds the most to the cost of training. Find any reputable trainers coming to your area and take the class. Dont get focused on just one trainer. There are some very good trainers I am glad I went to but probably wont go back to just because of a "feel". Sometimes I get to a class and find that there is a bunch of guys on a shooting vacation getting to use all the cool guy gear they bought....those are the crap classes.  I have taken multiple pistol, carbine, heavy carbine, patrol, vehicle, CQB, small unit, precision rifle, low/no light, and force on force sim courses.  Whatever you do go into it with the right mindset about learning and taking from the class skills you can continue to develop well after the class is over.

Chris
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 07:11:12 PM by CJS06 »

Offline Kentactic

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2015, 07:24:06 PM »
Thanks for the response Chris.

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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2015, 07:25:39 PM »
Also, TR emailed back and said they don't know who the instructor will be yet but he will be from tactical response. My fear was getting a watered down version instructed by some CA instructor.

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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2015, 03:34:02 PM »
Well I signed up for fighting pistol in April. Looking forward to it. It's on Saturday-Sunday so I'm going to take Friday off from work being it's a 3 hour drive there and I don't want to be rushed. I'll get a hotel for Friday and Saturday night. Still need to buy 1000 rounds of 9mm and various pieces of gear.

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Offline CJS06

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2015, 03:43:53 PM »
Awesome!  Let us know how it goes.  I'm taking a Vehicle CQB course with Will Petty in April.  Infortunately it requires a flight to Utah rather than just a 3 hr drive :o.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2015, 03:53:22 PM »
Hey, Freedom Ammunition has 9mm for like $169-. If you are interested Ken just click on their banner at the bottom of the Home Screen.
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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2015, 06:24:25 PM »
Awesome!  Let us know how it goes.  I'm taking a Vehicle CQB course with Will Petty in April.  Infortunately it requires a flight to Utah rather than just a 3 hr drive :o.
Yeah, I'll be flying or driving to Tennessee eventually because they don't offer a lot of their classes out of state.
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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2015, 06:24:48 PM »
Woops... Quoted wrong guy...
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 06:28:58 PM by Kentactic »
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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2015, 06:28:19 PM »
I see now that they are offering the "trifecta" starting with fighting pistol, then immediate action medical and then force on force all in a row for 6 days of fun. I think I'm going to add immediate action medical which is Monday-Tuesday and then if I can get the whole week off and there's still available spots, I'll upgrade to all three classes at the discount price ($1500).

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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2015, 06:29:24 PM »
Hey, Freedom Ammunition has 9mm for like $169-. If you are interested Ken just click on their banner at the bottom of the Home Screen.
Right on thanks for the heads up JM.
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Offline Grudgie

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2015, 10:23:08 PM »
I also hear good things about Valour Ridge. It is run by Reid Hendrics who used to work for James Jaeger. Valour Ridge is above Knoxville near the Kentucky boarder.

http://www.valorridge.com/

Offline Kentactic

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2016, 03:46:26 PM »
I also hear good things about Valour Ridge. It is run by Reid Hendrics who used to work for James Jaeger. Valour Ridge is above Knoxville near the Kentucky boarder.

http://www.valorridge.com/

Yeah I'm subbed to him on YouTube. I actually just caught on to the existence of his school the other day. I would imagine he's teaching very similar to Tactical response but who knows. I see that he took "danger check" with him.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 03:50:12 PM by Kentactic »
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Offline Reaver

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2016, 12:16:02 AM »
anyone can take a tactical response class for free.

Just have someone shoot your friend in the artery, leave your parking brake on in your car before hiding in a ditch. Easy peasy and free.  :coffeeNews:
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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2016, 02:57:45 AM »
anyone can take a tactical response class for free.

Just have someone shoot your friend in the artery, leave your parking brake on in your car before hiding in a ditch. Easy peasy and free.  :coffeeNews:
The ole "attack his character rather than his argument" routine? I'll bite.

Let's say he's a total coward that panics in a gunfight. Does that prove that he's teaching bad tactics or is it totally besides the point? What if we factor in the fact that Yeager is one of like 6 instructors that teach the material? Is anyone who has learned the material a coward by default? Do you know any of his material? If so, are you now too a coward? Does being a coward imply that you are incapable of learning certain things and then teaching them to others? Is a school teacher wrong if he's a coward and teaches kids stuff? What specific mental disciplines are effected by the coward complex? Can we move past this tired unfounded argument now?
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Offline rah45

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2016, 01:11:49 PM »
anyone can take a tactical response class for free.

Just have someone shoot your friend in the artery, leave your parking brake on in your car before hiding in a ditch. Easy peasy and free.  :coffeeNews:
The ole "attack his character rather than his argument" routine? I'll bite.

Let's say he's a total coward that panics in a gunfight. Does that prove that he's teaching bad tactics or is it totally besides the point? What if we factor in the fact that Yeager is one of like 6 instructors that teach the material? Is anyone who has learned the material a coward by default? Do you know any of his material? If so, are you now too a coward? Does being a coward imply that you are incapable of learning certain things and then teaching them to others? Is a school teacher wrong if he's a coward and teaches kids stuff? What specific mental disciplines are effected by the coward complex? Can we move past this tired unfounded argument now?

What a stupid argument.

Obviously, Yeager doesn't have a clue about tactics. I mean, anyone with a beard/goatee that looks like something snipped from Swamp Thing's ass doesn't understand how tactics work.

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Offline CJS06

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2016, 02:08:57 PM »
anyone can take a tactical response class for free.

Just have someone shoot your friend in the artery, leave your parking brake on in your car before hiding in a ditch. Easy peasy and free.  :coffeeNews:
The ole "attack his character rather than his argument" routine? I'll bite.

Let's say he's a total coward that panics in a gunfight. Does that prove that he's teaching bad tactics or is it totally besides the point? What if we factor in the fact that Yeager is one of like 6 instructors that teach the material? Is anyone who has learned the material a coward by default? Do you know any of his material? If so, are you now too a coward? Does being a coward imply that you are incapable of learning certain things and then teaching them to others? Is a school teacher wrong if he's a coward and teaches kids stuff? What specific mental disciplines are effected by the coward complex? Can we move past this tired unfounded argument now?

Any opinions about TR training need to be based off of the training curriculum and instructor implementation of it. All of the other nonsense about the internet blather should not come into it.  If you dont like him for something that you read on the internet then dont take a class with them.  I  personally was not a fan of TR classes because I did not like the presentation style and overall message...too much bluster and "do it this way.....because we say"and "everybody else doesnt know what they are doing".  That may have changed over time as the curriculum has developed but I'm all set with TR.  Some people I know liked them so more power to them. I would rather see someone get training than not because of the garbage out on the internet.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Tactical response
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2016, 02:50:24 PM »
Well put CJS!  :thumbsUp:

During the PA. hunting season we had as a hunting guest here that was a Security Contractor. He is back in the sandbox as I write.

While checking out my battle kit he offered some great suggestions. My point is he offered suggestions and in no way pushed his agenda. Just before he left the cabin I asked him about his easy approach to training. His response was to not change folks approach to things if it worked for them. He just wanted to offer suggestions/ alternative approaches that might be better. In a firefight a second saved here or there might be the difference of loosing or winning.

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