Unchained Preppers
General Category => Security & Survival => Topic started by: Alex1992 on February 17, 2013, 09:51:12 PM
-
Its a subject that has been bugging me for the past couple of years and I want to know your opinion, stockpiling Full Metal Jacket, Hollowpoint, or Soft Point, why and which is better?
-
Buy whatever the hell you can. Turn your HP's and SP's into stocks when you train use your FMJ's
Eventually, you will end up with stocks filled with mostly HP/SP's but don't underestimate the power of a FMJ.
-
I have a SHIT LOAD of Herter's 154gr SP 7.62x39mm, i just got a good deal on it, wasn't really a conscious decision.
-
I agree with RvR: Get what you can. BUY NOW!
-
i'll throw my weight behind what everyone else is saying. get what you can, now.
the best I've done recently is I loaded around 700 .223 rounds. about 300 of which were regular FMJ, then I couldn't find anymore 55gr FMJ so I paid a little more for what was available. some 64gr SPBT's and some 69gr HPBT's. not my first choice, and trust me, I'd rather load cheap shit, but it's what I could get, and the diameter matches my barrel.. so....
back when we had a choice, this thread could have flourished with discussion. but now, just get whatever the fuck you can get... IF you can get it.
-
Fortunately I bought some FMJ, SP, HP ammo just in time however I can't find 7.62x45r HP for some reason
-
Fortunately I bought some FMJ, SP, HP ammo just in time however I can't find 7.62x45r HP for some reason
Prvi partizan and Sellier and Bellot both make it, i've seen Cabela's and gun shops carry it.
It's still in stock around here
-
i buy up all fmj unless i get a smoking deal
i'd rather have 150rds of 9mm fmj than 25rds of hollow points
-
I'm with mtn on that. I have more FMJ due to the price.
-
In a perfect world it would depend on purpose and caliber.
If I could get 77gr boat tail hollow points for the same price as M855 then I would be loaded up on that instead but in this market you need to get what you can.
It's not like anyone will just laugh off a ball round to the face and mouth area.
-
In a perfect world it would depend on purpose and caliber.
Thatguy has it right. It all depends on what caliber you are using. Different callibers behave differently at different velocitys. A hollow point .45 slug is designed to expand which is basically what a soft point rifle round is designed to do. However a hollow point 40 gr .223 bullet travelling at 3800 fps is designed to fragment into shards.
In my opinion the best .223 bullet to stock up on for the value is Hornady's 75 gr boat tail hollow point or Sierra 77 gr matchking backed by 24 grains of Varget. This is only for reloaders though. It isn't a true hollow point. It is technically an open tip match design. But the copper jacket is thin which will fragment at low velocitys and the bullet itself is big enough that some of it will stay intact and penetrate.
This is for SHTF and defending the homestead. If I was fighting a Fascist police state/United Nations/occupying military I would want the best match bolt action rifle money can buy with a big bullet. Or an M1 Garand and some .30-06 armour penetrating rounds.
-
I stock all HP for the .40 S&W because at the time it was a good price. I dont have a rifle to stock for but id go FMJ if i did based on price of course. Id also try and keep my stock all identical or in large groups of the same loads. You dont want 10 different loads rollin around in your ammo can. It kind of goes without saying but its because every one of those loads will shoot in a different direction. It would be hard to get the time and safety to Rezero your rifle id imagine.
-
Yeah with prices these days FMJ is the way to go and I love FMJ ofcousre never hurts to have different types of bullets.
-
In the current market it is more about availability. Last year we could pick and choose what we liked, this year I am buying what I can get.
-
Same here thatguy
-
Tricky thread, depends on tactical reality and geopolitical situation. In ROL, I carry .45 ACP because of overpenetration fear and hurting an innocent. WROL I want penetration, so my rifle stocks are fmj. .45 fmj is great for WROL, did great in 2 world wars.
-
Thanks for your thoughts y'all. I'm stockpiling both for different situations like SP for hunting, FMJ for battle, HP when
I run out of FMJ
-
There aren't any real clear answers Alex.
I'm going to speak in general terms here so we don't get lost in specifics.
e=mc2.. you can go slow with a heavy bullet (45acp) or fast with a lighter bullet (40s&w) and still have the same energy.
Which ever side you pick is going to effect your bullet's effectiveness some where. As example the 45acp hemorrhages velocity as it goes down range and the weight adds to bullet drop making it less effective as you strech the out the distance.
Mean while the 40s&w is traveling so fast from here to 6' that a human body most likely won't even slow it down.
This is a bad thing.. When tissue slows a bullet it does so by stripping the energy from it and that is what it's all about, putting more energy on an object than it can dissipate.
Think about an ice pick vs a hammer. You can get that pick going really fast but its just going to make a hole while that big ol'slow hammer is going to crush bone.
So the short answer is you want your rounds to dissipate all their energy into the target hence hollow points. When a hollow point expands it increaces its surface area thus its potential to impart force is increased.
Let's make this personal,
I've picked the 77gr Sierra Match King Boat Tail Hollow Point in 5.56 as my perfered round because the hollow point slows the bullet in tissue from here to 150m while the 77gr allows it to retain some of that punch out past 500m. Is it a perfect solution? Shit no man, they are expensive! BTW this is where the twist rate of a barrel becomes an issue too. My buddy's barrel won't stabilize my rounds and mine won't stabilize his even though they are both AR15s.
For the Secondary I typically stay in the middle of the range for weight of bullet and load with hollow points as a must. I do this because it's easy and I don't intend to be taking long shots with a pistol.
-
In a perfect world it would depend on purpose and caliber.
Thatguy has it right. It all depends on what caliber you are using. Different callibers behave differently at different velocitys. A hollow point .45 slug is designed to expand which is basically what a soft point rifle round is designed to do. However a hollow point 40 gr .223 bullet travelling at 3800 fps is designed to fragment into shards.
In my opinion the best .223 bullet to stock up on for the value is Hornady's 75 gr boat tail hollow point or Sierra 77 gr matchking backed by 24 grains of Varget. This is only for reloaders though. It isn't a true hollow point. It is technically an open tip match design. But the copper jacket is thin which will fragment at low velocitys and the bullet itself is big enough that some of it will stay intact and penetrate.
This is for SHTF and defending the homestead. If I was fighting a Fascist police state/United Nations/occupying military I would want the best match bolt action rifle money can buy with a big bullet. Or an M1 Garand and some .30-06 armour penetrating rounds.
you do realize cops only have level II level IIIA armor right?
A hot loaded 357mag can go through that
with the exception of swat that is, they do wear rifle plates
-
A very good point thatguy [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
-
In a perfect world it would depend on purpose and caliber.
Thatguy has it right. It all depends on what caliber you are using. Different callibers behave differently at different velocitys. A hollow point .45 slug is designed to expand which is basically what a soft point rifle round is designed to do. However a hollow point 40 gr .223 bullet travelling at 3800 fps is designed to fragment into shards.
In my opinion the best .223 bullet to stock up on for the value is Hornady's 75 gr boat tail hollow point or Sierra 77 gr matchking backed by 24 grains of Varget. This is only for reloaders though. It isn't a true hollow point. It is technically an open tip match design. But the copper jacket is thin which will fragment at low velocitys and the bullet itself is big enough that some of it will stay intact and penetrate.
This is for SHTF and defending the homestead. If I was fighting a Fascist police state/United Nations/occupying military I would want the best match bolt action rifle money can buy with a big bullet. Or an M1 Garand and some .30-06 armour penetrating rounds.
.
you do realize cops only have level II level IIIA armor right?
A hot loaded 357mag can go through that
with the exception of swat that is, they do wear rifle plates
IIIA is pretty much mandatory. I have always been on the side of heavy hitting slow bullets but within the last couple of weeks I've come to realize that other preppers are most likely not going to be the primary threat and bitches with body armor on are. That being said, I'm starting to opt for tiny hole makers going at extreme velocities hence the new pickup of 7.62x25 as well as .40 smith and Wesson. Both with the proper load have the capability of punching through IIIA armor. It's either that or the option of hitting so hard that it causes internal bleeding and broken bones. If that's the case followups are pretty unlikely. My $0.02
-
i'd like to see any load of 40 S&W that can punch through a level IIIA
i haven't seen a load that comes close
-
Same here mountainredneck
-
I guess I should have clarified. My reason for picking up .40 is the cops being armed with it primarily. Down here at least. But I would imagine one of our reloaders here on sp could develope a hand load capable of doing so. Just minimize the bullet weight and maximize the charge. Keep it fmj.....in theory it should work.
-
I guess I should have clarified. My reason for picking up .40 is the cops being armed with it primarily. Down here at least. But I would imagine one of our reloaders here on sp could develope a hand load capable of doing so. Just minimize the bullet weight and maximize the charge. Keep it fmj.....in theory it should work.
not a bad idea but it's a little more complicated than that. you also have to take into consideration what the chamber of whatever gun you're using can handle. you can't just load up as hot as you want, at some point, chamber pressure becomes a real issue. I'm actually not experienced at all with that aspect of reloading simply because I never load up to the max pressure. the way I look at it, a bullet traveling 3800 fps isn't going to be any more destructive than one moving 3500 fps. (at least not in realistic terms. sure, the mathematics say otherwise, but I'm more concerned with "dead or not dead")
also, the hotter the load, the more wear and tear on the moving parts that absorb that energy. if we're talking extended WROL, I'd actually want lighter loads to avoid putting any more wear on my guns than necessary.
just my rambling thoughts on the topic.
oh and PS.. .40 will never penetrate IIIA. if someone pulls it off, I'll humbly accept it and admit to being wrong, but I really don't see it happening.
-
Yeah I think I over stepped my bounds and got called.....this damn iPad has me feeling super.
-
In a perfect world it would depend on purpose and caliber.
Thatguy has it right. It all depends on what caliber you are using. Different callibers behave differently at different velocitys. A hollow point .45 slug is designed to expand which is basically what a soft point rifle round is designed to do. However a hollow point 40 gr .223 bullet travelling at 3800 fps is designed to fragment into shards.
In my opinion the best .223 bullet to stock up on for the value is Hornady's 75 gr boat tail hollow point or Sierra 77 gr matchking backed by 24 grains of Varget. This is only for reloaders though. It isn't a true hollow point. It is technically an open tip match design. But the copper jacket is thin which will fragment at low velocitys and the bullet itself is big enough that some of it will stay intact and penetrate.
This is for SHTF and defending the homestead. If I was fighting a Fascist police state/United Nations/occupying military I would want the best match bolt action rifle money can buy with a big bullet. Or an M1 Garand and some .30-06 armour penetrating rounds.
you do realize cops only have level II level IIIA armor right?
A hot loaded 357mag can go through that
with the exception of swat that is, they do wear rifle plates
Yes, but I wasn't quite imagining fighting agianst the local police department. I'm thinking more along the lines of fully militarized UN troops or National Guard. Fighting a modern military in straight up fights with AR15s and AKs is pointless. Bolt actions and M1 Garands will win the day.
-
well grudgie you realize that all the shit troops wear today is rated to stop multiple hits from 30-06 ap ammo right?
the training i have received from former sf members is always shoot the hips out then go for the head
as far as my police vest thing goes, i mis read your comment you said police STATE, i didn't catch the state part
-
reaver, there is no way to hot load a 40 to penetrate level IIIA
357mag is the only caliber that i have ever seen do it
-
reaver, there is no way to hot load a 40 to penetrate level IIIA
357mag is the only caliber that i have ever seen do it
7.62x25 will do it.
-
could be, but i have never tested it out myself
-
could be, but i have never tested it out myself
So like me you don't believe in Jesus because you haven't seen it for yourself.
-
why you getting defensive bro?
if you need a hug just say so
-
Alright calm down girls geez your like my ex's. There are factors to take into consideration like bullet type, powder, caliber, range, the shooter etc.
-
Absolutely Alex, without knowing exactly what you've got and how you intend to use it we can't say what's best for you. Now we can give you all the info you need to make that choice on your own and hopefully we've done that ;)
I wouldn't post a detailed list for OPSEC reasons but if you wanna drop me a PM I'd be glad to help.
-
Nah I'm good thatguy posting this post was a very good idea and thanks [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
-
Well thanks for your thoughts I appreciate it, soon I'm gonna do another post very similar on this subject whenever I'm in the mood to post [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co