Author Topic: Sharing the message  (Read 3954 times)

Offline crudos

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2012, 02:28:22 PM »
^^^Great post TG^^^ 

Offline rah45

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2012, 02:48:15 PM »
GAP and EJR got the right thinking on this.

"We the people" is all the people. One of the most discusting social ideals that has been forced down our throats is this divisive mentality.

Some of the things we hold sacred as American Ideals were like Crudos mentioned were infact brought to us by Communist Agitators within the Labor Unions. The 40 hour week, the weekend, Labor Day and minimun wage.

We as Americans need to quit thinking in terms of race, political belief, gender or socail status when we look for potential allies in the fight against Corruption, Greed and Oppression.

We missed a fantastic opportunity when OWS first started, we could have infiltrated those crowds back when their message was "we are angry," before they united under the banner of "Free Shit Army."

We need to quit looking at what separates us as a people and look to what unifies us.


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Offline thatGuy

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2012, 02:56:52 PM »

Offline sledge

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2012, 04:56:51 PM »
Excellent example of how we got from there to here.  There was a time when Communists didn't come out in the open.  We were a prosperous nation then, back before we became more accepting of "other" ideas that weren't contained in the Constitution.
"Other" ideas like the eight hour work day, five days a week? Vacations? Who exactly was prosperous in the nation back in those cherished days?  Workers were treated like utter crap, all of us (I assume most all of us here are working class) would've been worked to early graves if it wasn't for "other" ideas and ways of thinking in our development as a nation.

So what are you talking about, unions?  They weren't being infiltrated until the sixties and the Democrat party a decade  after that.  Unions used to concern themselves with actually helping workers instead of a socialistic political agenda who's ultimate goal is their enslavement.  (See Soviet Union, Chicom, Vietnam, and Cuba.) Same could be said for the Democrat party when it was still lead by Southern Democrats instead of the idiots from up north and out west. 

The American citizen's incomes and educational system were the envy of the world back then and before.  Yep, that means we, as a people, were prosperous.  But then as always, government got bigger and began it's march to control of everything, in spite of the Constitution.  Until we began resembling what?  A communist, Government controlled, police state monitored type of country where certain people, the elite, do well and the average Joe gets shafted.  That's when things started going to shit.  And they will remain in the shit unless we ever go back to our roots of individual freedom and limited Government.

edit:  I wanted to amend this some what.  As after posting I remembered that we have our own special kind of new Democrat idiots here in Florida.   
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 05:25:50 PM by sledge »



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

Offline thatGuy

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2012, 06:17:03 PM »
Sledge,

Two men are credited with suggesting Labor Day as a holiday in 1882 Matthew Maguire and Peter J. McGuire. Peter J. McGuire later joined with Adolph Strasser to found the Social Democratic Workingmen's Party of North America which was one of the first International Socialist political parties in North America.

It wasn't until the Pullman Strike in 1894 that it became a Federal holiday. President Grover Cleveland had Congress push the paperwork though in an attempt to reconcile with Labor Unions.

The Pullman Strike was led by Eugene V. Debs though not a Socialist at the time of the strike he read the works of Karl Marx while imprisoned for leading the strike and later went on to become the most prominent Socialist in America during his life. He ran for President 5 times as the Socialist Parties candidate. Debs later founded the Industrial Workers of the World which is still listed as a Communist organization.

I was wrong to say Communist Agitators, they were infact Socialist Agitators that brought you Labor Day unless you have a hard time seeing Marx as a Socialist which I do. Another thing to take into consideration when talking about political titles of the day is that the exact definition of Communism varies and it is often mistakenly. In general political discourse the term is used interchangeably with socialism. However Marxist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the road to communism. Hell the Russians weren't even Commies till 1917!

I don't feel the need to point out the Socialists, Communists and Anarchist that were instrumental in the fight for the 8 hour work day or any of the other uniquely American Ideals. I would how ever recommend that you research the origens of Organized Labor. It's as thrilling of a read as the founding of this great country.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 06:37:49 PM by thatguy »

Offline sledge

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2012, 06:48:14 PM »
Hmmmm.   Well, those socialist, communist benefits may sound ok.  But with capitalism I work 0 hours a day and have been on vacation for a little over a year.  Top that with your socialism and communism!   LOL!



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

Offline thatGuy

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2012, 06:50:12 PM »
I was mealy trying to point out that every ingredient flavors the stew but touche sir. [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

Offline rah45

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2012, 09:56:09 PM »

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2012, 10:23:49 PM »
Interesting history TG. Thanks for sharing as I knew little.

With that said, I agree with many that it is important that we talk to the OWS folks. hey, nothing ventured nothing gained. "The usefull idiots" are only receiving one side of the story. 
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Offline NOLA556

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2012, 10:42:07 PM »
thought I'd share this:

I had a conversation last night with an anarchist. he's an old friend of mine but we haven't spoken in a couple years.

we established a common ground. we're both against the central consolidation of power. that's a start, right?

we also agreed that staunch libertarianism is only a stone's throw away from anarchism, and that it's quite peculiar how anarchism has become a leftist ideology as opposed to a far radical RIGHTwing ideology. IMO anarchism should be further RIGHT than libertarianism.

anyway, maybe I'll stand corrected. there may be some useful purpose behind befriending the radical leftists. after all, we both DO fight the same fight, just for different reasons. we have a common enemy.
Rome is burning, and Obama is playing the fiddle - GAP

Offline crudos

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2012, 11:17:26 PM »
thought I'd share this:

I had a conversation last night with an anarchist. he's an old friend of mine but we haven't spoken in a couple years.

we established a common ground. we're both against the central consolidation of power. that's a start, right?

we also agreed that staunch libertarianism is only a stone's throw away from anarchism, and that it's quite peculiar how anarchism has become a leftist ideology as opposed to a far radical RIGHTwing ideology. IMO anarchism should be further RIGHT than libertarianism.

anyway, maybe I'll stand corrected. there may be some useful purpose behind befriending the radical leftists. after all, we both DO fight the same fight, just for different reasons. we have a common enemy.
We have much to learn from each other. Good post NOLA.

CrookedSights

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2012, 11:37:17 PM »
Anarchism is as far right as it gets. The problem is all these Pseudo-Commie spoiled little shits that want everything handed to them and just wanna burn shit calling them selves Anarchists just as the Progressives did when they started calling themselves Liberals. If you're a true Anarchist you always have a seat at my table.

Offline NOLA556

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2012, 02:55:48 PM »
Anarchism is as far right as it gets. The problem is all these Pseudo-Commie spoiled little shits that want everything handed to them and just wanna burn shit calling them selves Anarchists just as the Progressives did when they started calling themselves Liberals. If you're a true Anarchist you always have a seat at my table.

agreed. I've always thought the exact same thing. anarchy as a philosophy isn't automatically synonymous with rioting and flipping cars over. but "anarchist" sounds cooler than "gimme free shit"
Rome is burning, and Obama is playing the fiddle - GAP

Offline EJR914

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2012, 05:36:32 PM »
Totalitarianism is on the far right, and Anarchy is on the far left of the political spectrum.

The true political spectrum.

This left and right BS that we have had spoon fed to us from high school and the media is really all just a bunch of propaganda.  Its meant to keep us divided and powerless to do anything.  What I mean by left and right BS is that Democrats are left, Republicans are on the right.  Its BS. 

You have TOTAL Government on the left, totalitarianism, and Anarchy meaning no government at all, on the right.  That's the true political spectrum.

Both Democrats and Republicans have taken us closer to totalitarianism the entire life of this country. 

You all need to watch this video: 
Political spectrum, role of government

Offline EJR914

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2012, 05:41:27 PM »
An extended version if you have the time: 
The Five Basic Forms Of Government Explained

Offline crudos

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2012, 06:01:26 PM »
I've always been partial to this model....

http://politicalcompass.org/

This rings true to my experiences and learning over the years. I'm sure you've all seen this somewhere along the line. Thought I'd toss it in this thread.

CrookedSights

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2012, 06:29:22 PM »
That test is BS, first off there's no option for no opinion, secondly you can't sum up someones beliefs with simplistic answers like that. There are long ass reasons I agree or disagree with something and the crux of Libertarianism is that for the most part many of my beliefs conflict with each other, I can strongly disagree with something believing it is immoral but I also believe you have a right to do it.

Offline crudos

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2012, 07:33:32 PM »
That test is BS, first off there's no option for no opinion, secondly you can't sum up someones beliefs with simplistic answers like that. There are long ass reasons I agree or disagree with something and the crux of Libertarianism is that for the most part many of my beliefs conflict with each other, I can strongly disagree with something believing it is immoral but I also believe you have a right to do it.
Dude, it's just an internet test and a very general idea of why and how different political beliefs relate to others. There is no way every answer could be accounted for in a 5 minutes sampling of questions. I meant to show it as a alternative to the very inadequate and simplistic left-right line. There is tons of research on political compass theory if you so desire to look into it more.

CrookedSights

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2012, 07:36:58 PM »
I'm just pissed they put me farther left than Obama  >:(

Offline NOLA556

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2012, 07:38:23 PM »
Totalitarianism is on the far right, and Anarchy is on the far left of the political spectrum. WTF? no sir, you are mistaken.


Both Democrats and Republicans have taken us closer to totalitarianism the entire life of this country.  this is why, in my personal charted opinion, there's a dividing line just to the right of NEOCON, and just to the left of LIBERAL or democrat, and everything in between those two lines is labeled "HYPOCRISY"... but you're dead wrong about totalitarianism on the far right, and anarchy on the far left. it's the exact opposite. IMO, the further left you go, the more government power there is, the further right, the less government power. so shouldn't your view be reversed completely? Libertarianism is just a stone's throw away from anarchy, and similarly, marxism is just a stone's throw away from totalitarianism


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CrookedSights

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2012, 07:41:29 PM »
NOLA, I'm sure he just unintentionally mixed the two up.

Offline NOLA556

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2012, 08:43:07 PM »
NOLA, I'm sure he just unintentionally mixed the two up.

probably so. it's just all too common for people too place fascism/national socialism (nazis) on the far right, and anarchism on the far left.
Rome is burning, and Obama is playing the fiddle - GAP

Offline EJR914

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Re: Sharing the message
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2012, 11:03:03 PM »
Totalitarianism is on the far right, and Anarchy is on the far left of the political spectrum. WTF? no sir, you are mistaken.


Both Democrats and Republicans have taken us closer to totalitarianism the entire life of this country.  this is why, in my personal charted opinion, there's a dividing line just to the right of NEOCON, and just to the left of LIBERAL or democrat, and everything in between those two lines is labeled "HYPOCRISY"... but you're dead wrong about totalitarianism on the far right, and anarchy on the far left. it's the exact opposite. IMO, the further left you go, the more government power there is, the further right, the less government power. so shouldn't your view be reversed completely? Libertarianism is just a stone's throw away from anarchy, and similarly, marxism is just a stone's throw away from totalitarianism



Did you even care to watch the video I posted?  They explain it, Nola.

You're still thinking in terms of right for Republican, left for Democrat.  YOU HAVE TO GET OUT OF THAT MINDSET.  That is the mindset those in powers WANT and actually NEED you to be in so that they can control you.  It seems to be working out well for them.

Open your mind, stop thinking of things in THEIR terms, they create and control the narrative.  Don't let them.

Left of the scale, right of the scale it doesn't matter where you put everything.

The only thing that matters is Totalitarian is on one side, Anarchy is on the other, a Republic is in the middle slightly to the anarchy side, like how we were founded, and Libertarian is just slightly more to the Anarchy side.  Just watch the video, you'll see that left or right don't matter at all.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 11:05:43 PM by EJR914 »