Rural BOL Security

[JohnyMac]

Rah requested that we start a thread on Rural BOL Security where small- large cities are close by that may affect your BOL's security even if you are in a rural area.

Our BOL Background:

Our family's BOL is located on a mountain (Hill by CO. & NM. standards) in a range of mountains in upper PA.. The mountain peaks out at about 1,700 feet and our BOL is located on the south side at about 1,400 ft level. There are two roads on/ off the mountain. One is dirt and the other is half paved which goes to dirt.

Year round there are about a dozen residents and in the summer add about another dozen. All of the folks- Residents and part time residents are all preppers and survivalists with the exception of one who is a professor at a near by small city. My brother, his wife and I showed up at a barbecue at his house we were invited to this past July. While at the BOL we always wear our daily carry handguns and showed up to his barbecue packing- Never thought about it. Well most of the folks at his party were from the college he worked at and... well...lets just say we were treated as leapers.

The pave/dirt road leads south to a small town, about 4-5 miles from the BOL. The population there is about 2,000 folks. The dirt road leads north west about 5-6 miles to a secondary paved road which leads to a state road. If you follow the state road about 7-8 miles west it leads to a
interstate which leads to a small city who's population is about 5th0,000. As crow flies the small city is about 25 miles away.

The Plan: 

Now here is the current plan if TEOTWAWKI happens. Since my brother nor I have any military background I would appreciate any input. I will say that we have ran it past a close friend who is ex-military and will be part of our team if the colapse happens. One last thing: All of the folks on the mountain are quite individualists and I have had to use a lot of politicking and free beer to at the minimum, gotten, a "Okay" from most. Hopefully we will all pull together when it happens.

We feel that the first wave of hungry folks will come from the small community south of us. The second wave will come from the small city about 25 miles away. Regardless, the plan is to block both roads to the mountain. A old school bus (Still runs) will be used at the south road and a hay wagon at the NW entrance. Both roads run through a ravine of sorts. At the choke points on the ridges of the ravine we are going to have LP/OP bunkers positioned for safe cross fire of the road block /choke point.

Now although the terrain is rough (New forrest and steep) many of the locals will know how to bypass these road blocks. So the plan is to have roving patrols of 3-4 people to repel small bands of marauders or to call in a larger reserve force if the band is larger.

As a side note, we have all agreed on the mountain to grow more food then necessary to trade with the folks in the small town; However, that won't happen right away and be available for barter and to ease the towns desire to forage on our mountain.

Problems We See:     

Here are some problems we have predicted and working towards correcting them:
> We do not have enough folks to defend the mountain when the hordes come from the small
   city. I am sure relatives of the mountains residents will come but will they be a hindrance or an
   asset?
> Weaponry is poor. The only folks on the mountain that has a descent armoury is one other
   resident and my brother & I. Most of the long guns are hunting rifles. And the few handguns
   are for hunting and plinking. With that said, these folks are expert with their weapons. 

   Stocked ammo is limited to a few box's per weapon. I have been encouraging folks to update
   their weapons and supply of ammo but have met much resistance. Mainly due to cost. These are
   not rich folks on the mountain.

   I have been on a campaign with my brothers help, to buy dies, jacketed bullets, molds for the
   day when those jacketed bullets are not available, primers and powders. We have dies for most
   of the most popular cartridges even if we do not own those calibers.
> Like the lack of ammo and weaponry stored food is an issue on the mountain. All of the year
   round residents and many of the summer residents have vegetable plots. However, only about
   six family's have stored away food like we do. As of today, my wife and I have one years food
   put away. My brother about 6 months for his family (3-4 people). He is working on it though.

   When money is tight, it is tough to put away food and supplies without affecting their current 
   situation. I just keep prodding them. Some of the residents call me "the nag." Oh well people will
   be people.
> Inter-mountain communication is limited to FRS radio's.

Miscellaneous:

> We have two residents who are school teachers and one who is a professor (I don't count on him
   though).
> We have two RN's. My sister in-law and a resident who works at the local small community
   hospital.
> We have plenty of water- Year round.
> There are three small farms. They have: Chickens, milk cows, pig's, goats, turkey's, cattle on
   them.
> There are many orchards scattered over the mountain. Some must be 50 - 100 years old. Apples
   and pear trees are the majority with crab apple and peach but they are a minority and need
   work.

So there you have it. I would appreciate heavy scrutiny of our preliminary plans.

[Colombo]

I suspect the biggest problem you might  have is with an unknown landowner or their family showing up on their property. You may be the next door neighbor of someones bol or old grandpas orchard. While the information is available I would consider hitting up the county tax collector for information (aerial maps) you can write on tax roll listed owners for future reference and bs story detection as well as conversations like "so you own that lot/acreage" or "That's your daughter?" maybe even "That's a very nice shotgun sir."

[rah45]

"That's your daughter?"

Uh, yeah, maybe not that one...

You:                 Landowner:

                             [img]http://www.smileydesign.n

[JohnyMac]

Great idea Colombo. We have a map that shows who owns what BUT we have not spoken to absent landowners and there are some.

In one case there is a divorce going on.

[rah45]

Okay, here's my serious response. 

First off, +1 Karma for starting this. I know some people are sensitive about their plans, and it does take some balls to put this out there. I think it's  a necessary topic for SP.com.

I like that you plan on blocking the routes with the old school bus and hay wagon (I'm assuming it's a wooden wagon - let me know if it's not). I think the school bus is a good blocking element, but the hay wagon? Nope. My first idea would be to move it with the rest of my "horde," or if that failed, burn it. You also have to consider that the opposing force will be able to use that bus against you (I'm sure bullets will penetrate the hay wagon). You'll have to analyze the surrounding terrain, evaluate your potential manpower (and cut a few "allies" out of your plan, just to be safe), and see if you have enough men to keep the opfor at the bus pinned, while also positioning two different flanking positions (on superior ground) that will be able to pick off the bunch behind the bus. Same deal with the hay wagon.

Honestly, I would suggest getting any heavy-duty earth-moving equipment there (rural communities on a mountain? Somebody has SOMETHING you can use) and using it to erect natural barricades against anything coming up EITHER of those main routes. I'm talking destroying the roads/paths completely, and erecting barriers (earth mounds, trees, barricades, deep trenches, large wooden or metal spikes for vehicles, etc) that you can easily defend from the high ground. If you conserve your gasoline, you could even try to use that old bus to ferry your "reserve" force around to locations where it is most needed. You'll have to act like Israel: have LP/OPs at possible attack points, with working comms, and then send out the loaded bus when the LP/OP reports large enemy activity. You'll be able to react moderately quickly, and possibly present a larger defensive force to your opponent than you actually have.

I'm not former military, and don't have the experience doing the above, but I've seen conversations with others here and read posts such as Mike Vanderboegh's blog, SipseyStreetIrregulars, that give me ideas. The above is what I'd probably do. I can only say that, whenever you see an opportunity, you should utilize as many force multipliers as possible. If you have two paths to your house that you need to defend, eliminate the easier path somehow and force the enemy to approach from a more difficult direction, under fire.

Also, is there a lot of tree cover around you guys? I remember reading something about getting a few small remotely controlled planes and using it to spot activity in open areas and give SALUTE reports. I imagine it would be indispensable if your manpower is extremely limited. I wonder if you could rig it to function on cheap solar panels during the day, and on a rechargeable battery at night?

[JohnyMac]

WOW! Some great idea's.

Oh yeah, there is at least three dozers on the mountain and similar number of front end loaders and backhoes.

I love the idea of moving troops via the bus- Awesome!

The land is heavily wooded and hilly- In some cases sheer clefts with 100 foot drops; However, the remote control planes with video capabilities is a great idea. I will have to check on the price of one of those.

Another thought came to me to be put on the "punch list" is to get a list of names (friends and relatives) from all of the land owners that we should let pass through the road block to their house.

Thanks for the blog suggestions.

Is there any other BOL's in a similar situation? Worst or better?

[sledge]

I'm seeing this a little differently.  (Big Shock, right?)  If you do see any rovers fleeing it will be from the 50,000 population small city 25 miles away.
That would be the direction I would be concerned about and set up defenses for.  I would also leave a path for those people to escape.  If they are hemmed in on all sides as they try to leave that city they are going to attempt to fight their way through because they will have no other choice.   

  The 2,000 population town 5 miles from you probably won't be a threat.  Although you might see hunters occasionally from that town.  Small towns like that will more than likely band together.  Usually there are people in them who have lived there for generations.  They all know each other (and each other's personal business) and there are usually a lot of family ties through marriages.  Usually most of the younger people have left for better job opportunities. Expect some of them to return when things go to shit.

That town will probably band together and set up road blocks on roads leading in.  Hopefully, you know some people there as the town will give you a place to trade goods and get a few supplies that they make.  It might also provide you with a safe haven should you be in danger of being over run.  (Think 1700's forts and the cabins that surrounded them during the Indian wars.  Everyone went to the fort for protection.)

[JohnyMac]

Sledge wrote:That town will probably band together and set up road blocks on roads leading in.  Hopefully, you know some people there as the town will give you a place to trade goods and get a few supplies that they make.  It might also provide you with a safe haven should you be in danger of being over run.  (Think 1700's forts and the cabins that surrounded them during the Indian wars.  Everyone went to the fort for protection.)

Good thoughts Sledge. In fact I would love to put up defensive positions outside the small town and allow the town to band together.

[Deathstyle]

The land is heavily wooded and hilly- In some cases sheer clefts with 100 foot drops; However, the remote control planes with video capabilities is a great idea. I will have to check on the price of one of those.

http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/a-newbies-guide-to-uavs

I think I found this through a link someone posted on the ole' LockandLoad site.

[goodnightChesty1775]

---how many fighters do you have to protect your place? since this is a security discussion.


ok here we go, this is what i think from not having any eyes on at all.

-first thing is i wouldnt use the running vics as road blocks, and those two would be way to valuable in a WROL sit. IMO. that bus you can use to transport your reserve fighters when you need to, if you set up good SOPs when they get called on. and that hay wagon might be very important for getting hay to the cattle, water containers back to the houses ect.. (if its the only one)

Using trees to stop civilian vehicles and tracked vehicles.

Sapper Lessons: Counter Mobility - Tank Ditch and Berm

good videos, and the HOSS used to have some really good ones dealing with anti vehicle road blocks and such using trees (stacked and built together with dirt inside) i cant think of the exact terms, but im looking for them now. or you can construct some sort of gate now so you dont have to completely put that road out of use...(if your dealing with civi cars still, if i caught a whiff of anything bigger i would go with those.)


-i think blocking off the main entrances to the mountain is a good idea but i would go with those options i just listed, so you dont have to risk your vehicles, and they can act as cover if needed.

--LP/OPs you said you wanted two on each entrance to provide a cross fire. if i was short on guys i would have at least 1 guy in each OP if man power wasnt a big problem 2 would be ideal. and of course coms with each other and the CP, and the patrols.

also think about getting some cheap NODs gen 2 or so, for the LP/OPs yes they arent great but it might be better than nothing...

---roving patrols, i think that is the best way to secure the woods in between the roads and LP/OPs. but how many are you planning on using and how many fighters per patrol? two 4 man roving patrols wouldn't hurt, i would assign them each 'sectors' they are to watch. but 3, 3 man patrols might be better (as you can have one on the streets around the houses also). but thats alot of people on guard duty 24/7 for 12-lets say 20 houses...

----how far apart are the houses on average? are they line of sight like a reg suburban neighbor hood?

-now if i was hungry and thirsty refugee i would go for the water, livestock and veggies as those to me seem to be the easiest to get without breaking into houses or getting in a firefight. so with that being said those need to be protected also, more so that the roads IMO. and because you live in the woods there are probably a lot of different sneaky little ways to get to those resources. i would try and set up LP/OPs (with coms of course) to over watch those.

--and i would think about making 'dead zones' with trip wires that make some sort of noise when triggered. and 'track traps' on the main avenues of approach and your patrols should check those when ever possible to see whats going to in the AO.

Trip wire alarms for retreat security

all i got for now.

[rah45]

The land is heavily wooded and hilly- In some cases sheer clefts with 100 foot drops; However, the remote control planes with video capabilities is a great idea. I will have to check on the price of one of those.

http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/a-newbies-guide-to-uavs

I think I found this through a link someone posted on the ole' LockandLoad site.

Nice link, Deathstyle!

Just another thought on these aerial surveillance drones: you'll have to get one that's as quiet as possible, color it so it's as low visibility as possible, and also outfit it with a device that will allow excellent mobility while providing adequate surveillance. You should always be able to zoom in without diving the plane to get a closer look. Do that, and the enemy will know what you're doing, and possibly shoot down your drone. Also, if you don't want to be blind at night, you'll want to have a night vision-capable device on the drone. The point is to stay as quiet as possible, as far away as possible, and still get as detailed and clear visual footage as you can. Remember, shotguns make up a huge percentage of Americans' arms, and all it takes is some birdshot or buckshot to bring that thing down. Then, they'll know someone is around them within the square mile, and they have resources to take. It's a double-edged sword, but worth it if you can afford to do it right.

[JohnyMac]

Great links Deathstyle and Chesty!

Chesty, what is a NOD? Night Vision Goggles?

Here is a stupid question...Can you save onto your hard drive You Tube video's? If so how?

Great stuff...Keep it coming.

Mountain, what is your situation in CO.?

Chesty, year round there is about a dozen family's and in the summer double that. With 3-4 folks living in each house plus folks we allow in- You can probably figure out the population on the hill when TEOTWAWKI comes. Please keep in mind that the ages of folks are anywhere from 5 or so to 80 or so. 50/50 women/men.

[goodnightChesty1775]

these are the vic barriers i was talking about, like i said i dont know the term for these but are pretty straight forward to make.

[goodnightChesty1775]

and i also read in "House To House" by David Bellavia, the hajis in falujah used telephone wire in a big ol cluster F on the ground to tangle up guys, and from what he wrote in the book it took 4 guys about 5 mins to get free, (and they were in a KZ but not getting shot at luckily)

[goodnightChesty1775]

Chesty, what is a NOD? Night Vision Goggles?

yes, or scopes (not rifle scopes)

[sledge]

Great links Deathstyle and Chesty!



Mountain, what is your situation in CO.?

stay off my mountain

How are we supposed to know which one's yours?   

[JohnyMac]

Sledge,
it's the third mountain north of the big highway. The mountain with the smoke rising above it from the still. 

[mountainredneck2051]

you can tell which mountain is mine by the pack of roaming rottweilers

[Colombo]

Keep an eye out for pigs, there the easiest way to get rid of the spent mash and will probably be close by I've heard there good for baiting deer too...

[mountainredneck2051]

i'm in colorado, aint no pigs up here, they all froze...........

[Colombo]

Last off topic post I'll make and your not getting my recipe but I will say illini xtra sweet...
http://www.coppermoonshinestills.com/id28.html

[mountainredneck2051]

i'm just kidding yall i'd never make moonshine

[Colombo]

Dang not only did I lie about no more off topic I find myself trollin for a smite.

i'm just kidding yall i'd never make moonshine

PUSSY.      I not only make it I drink it

[special-k]

Dang not only did I lie about no more off topic I find myself trollin for a smite.

i'm just kidding yall i'd never make moonshine

PUSSY.      I not only make it I drink it

I, being a Georgia native, was under the impression that they only made "paint stripper" in Colorado.

[mountainredneck2051]

lol, yeah they used to put it in nalgene bottles but my shit melted the plastic bottles