Optics on Primary Firearm

[JohnyMac]

I think we had this discussion awhile back but I can not find it in the archives. I even scrolled through the past 2 years in this board. So I guess we will start a new one.

What kind of optics are you running on your primary?

I am currently using an EOTech XPS2 on my Colt 6920 AR with a cowitness rear sight from A.R.M.S.  I am thinking of putting the XPS2 on MrsMac's rifle and picking up a magnified optic.

Looking at Burris AR-536 (My bro has the AR-332 and loves it) or a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6X. I would love to own a Trijicon ACOG but the price tag, even used is a bit pricey for me. 

What are you running on your AR, Bolt action or shotgun? And why did you chose what you did.

[Nemo]

AR is basic Mk I eyeball with corrective lenses.  I came with those.  But not the lens things.  They were extra.

Hunting rifle is Rem 760 pump in 06 with 2.5x Leupold.  My hunting grounds rarely have shots over 150 yards or so.  2.5 was good when I bought it and should still be.  It was good price with rifle by being a long time in stock item.

Shotgun is basic Rem 870 with standard bead or basic open rifle for short barrel feeding info to basic Mk I.  See #1 above.

Well they were that, before I had to sell them to buy scripts and that stuff.  Good thing though is doc stopped the Plavix I was taking since MI near 4 years back.  So thats helpful.  Might be able to buy a box of bullets for my edc handgun.  I was saving it for this situation and now I might be able to carry bullets in it when I edc it. 

Nemo

[CJS06]

Johny

I have a couple set up differently.

On my go to KAC SR15 I have a Elcan Specter DR 1-4  with KAC 45 deg back up irons and Steiner Dbal-A3
On my 18"SPR I have a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10 FFP with a Trijicon RMR on a 45deg
On a Noveske Afghan I have an Aimpoint T1 with KAC back up irons
On my truck gun AAC MPW-P 300blk I have a Trijicon MRO and KAC back up irons
Om my Sig MPX I have a Trijicon RMR with Sig back up irons
On my LMT MWS .308 I have a Vortex Razor genII 3-18 and KAC 45deg back up irons
On a SHTF Polish AKMS----nothing but the std irons
-Sold all of my bolt guns

A little of everything across the board. As I mentioned if I could only take 1 it would be my KAC with the Elcan.

 I went through a ton of different variables before settling on the Elcan. It is bombproof, and I found that with variables such as a Leupold Mk6 1-6 I was using either 6x or 1x but nothing else.  The lever that operates the Elcan is intuitive and quick and the BDC reticle works great. It is definitely on the expensive end, but if you can find a used one do it.

As far as Red Dots I like prefer either the Aimpoint T1/T2 or the MRO. Both have a nice crisp dot and bot hold up to stupid abuse. I used to have EXPS 3s but my eyes were making the 65mos ring fuzzy. The single dot was clearer and faster for me.

For precision the Vortex glass has definitely won me over.  The 2.5-10 works as a great scope out to 800yds for the he 5.56 SPR for me.  Good field of view, clear & bright glass, and enough magnification without getting to much.  The 3-18 with Vortex's version of the tremor reticle is awesome for getting out to 1k yds quickly. Once you learn it the tremmor is an incredibly intuitive reticle for ranging and quick corrections.

For variable I have really gotten away from std tube scopes. The eye relief causes you to get stuck inside the glass really reducing the field of view and overall situational awareness.  If you like the ACOG concept take a look at the Vortex Spitfire 3x. It is not too much magnification for close up work and gives that extra little bit to get good hits out to 500yds. If you like like 1-6x scopes also look at the Primary Arms 1-8x with the ACSS reticle. It is a ton of scope for the $$$. Kind of an affordable Leupold Mk8 type of thing.

Chris

[JohnyMac]

OUCH the Elcan Specter DR 1-4 retails out at $2,200-

Primary Arms 1-8x with the ACSS reticle is more in my price range. Just out of curiosity...How could you install a small red dot like the Burris FastFire along with the Primary Arms optic?

[CJS06]

OUCH the Elcan Specter DR 1-4 retails out at $2,200-

Primary Arms 1-8x with the ACSS reticle is more in my price range. Just out of curiosity...How could you install a small red dot like the Burris FastFire along with the Primary Arms optic?

Yeah it hurts to see that much green go away when you get and Elacn.  I did some horse trading....a Leupold mk6  for mine. 

To put a red dot onto a rifle along with a magnified optic there are 2 main methods. 1 is a ring base that mounts the red dot onto the scope....I am not a fan of these as it puts the red dot in a very tall position effecting ease of shooting and particularly zeroing.  Another method is to put in on a small offset rail section (depending on if you have rail to work with).  I can text you some pics of how I have a couple of rifles set up.  It is fairly straight forward using this or something like it. http://www.primaryarms.com/weaver-offset-rail-adapter-99671  Use a quality one like the Weaver or DD, dont get the knock off or NC Star crap....They fail or wobble if hit when using. I use the Weaver on my SPR. The stock lowpro base of the red dot will mount right to this.

If you dont have a railed handguard on your 6920 I would suggest you consider one. Not to look tacticool! It allows you to mount the red dot you are taking about but more importantly helps with mounting a light which for a shtf gun is a valuable item. Also if you get a chance to do any low light NODS work it allows you to mount a Laser.  There are a couple of rock solid options that are not bank breakers if you are in need. Just let me know.

Chris

[JohnyMac]

Perfect CSJ! That off set weaver works for sure.

NO hurry however when you get around to it snap me a pic or two. Afterall, a pic is worth a 1,000 words. Thx

[CJS06]

Ill send it over in about 5mins.

[DMCakhunter]

I decided to get glasses in 2008 since far away things were getting fuzzy. As such I have scopes with adjustable diopters (just in case I lose my glasses, I can still shoot accurately) on all my scoped rifles except for 2 trijicon SRS's. Scopes range from 1-6 VCOG's for MSRs to 1-6, 1-8, 2.5-10, 3-12, 3-15, 5-20 and 5-25 - depending on the purpose.

[grizz]

I have used the SEEALL sights on rifles and really like them and just read they now have them for night use w/o batteries. I'm also looking at the FT Bulleyes sights since they are pretty much the same thing with a much lower profile for handguns

[Erick]

I approcah my optics from a requirements stand point.

Requirements are in this order

1) Speed of acquisition 2) Cost 3) robustness 4) weight 5) battery life

Items 2,3, 4, 5 are also whats known in acquisition as RAM-D.

Reliability, availability, Maintainability, Durability.
With cost falling under "availability" (tho not everyone in industry agree with this and likes to break cost out seperate)

Or put another way:
A professional grade yet affordable Sight that improves speed and normal combat ranges (0-200m are the most normal combat ranges, some argue thats its really 0-100m)

So I have no requirement for magnification.. its a nice to have but may increase weight, reduce speed.

I have narrowed it down to 2 systems

The EOtech 512 and the Aimpoint PRO

For Speed of aquisition , light transmission fo the glass and field of view the EOtech is superior.
I know th Aimpoint is more robust (tho my Eotech is robust enough for my purposes) and the battery life is not so meaningful to me in "normal" use as just "making it" thru a very short number of hours of firefights in an early stage SHTF will be decisive.

For this reason my primary rifles all carry an EOTech

However my cache rifles carry Aimpoint PRO as for that role the extreme durability and battery life now assumes a much greater importance.

[grizz]

I approcah my optics from a requirements stand point.

Requirements are in this order

1) Speed of acquisition 2) Cost 3) robustness 4) weight 5) battery life

Items 2,3, 4, 5 are also whats known in acquisition as RAM-D.

Reliability, availability, Maintainability, Durability.
With cost falling under "availability" (tho not everyone in industry agree with this and likes to break cost out seperate)

Or put another way:
A professional grade yet affordable Sight that improves speed and normal combat ranges (0-200m are the most normal combat ranges, some argue thats its really 0-100m)

So I have no requirement for magnification.. its a nice to have but may increase weight, reduce speed.

I have narrowed it down to 2 systems

The EOtech 512 and the Aimpoint PRO

For Speed of aquisition , light transmission fo the glass and field of view the EOtech is superior.
I know th Aimpoint is more robust (tho my Eotech is robust enough for my purposes) and the battery life is not so meaningful to me in "normal" use as just "making it" thru a very short number of hours of firefights in an early stage SHTF will be decisive.

For this reason my primary rifles all carry an EOTech

However my cache rifles carry Aimpoint PRO as for that role the extreme durability and battery life now assumes a much greater importance.

Have you looked into the MPro21, it does not require batteries

[Jackalope]

Yeah, the Meprolight M21 is probably my next optical acquisition.  It must be semi-reliable if the Israeli military is using it.

[Erick]

I know nothing about that sight. I'd have to test it first.
Both the EOtech holographics weapons sights and the Aimpoint PRO are derivatives of units in service w/ US military for decades.

It looks interesting though. But i have standardized on the other 2 sights now.
Like the choice of reticles quite  a bit.

From a preppers perspective though my stashed Lithium AA and 1/3N batteries will be available long after the tritium has gone dim.

[Jackalope]

I already have some battery powered reflex red dot reticle sights.  The Meprolight M21 looks like a good EMP proof reflex type optic, as an alternative to electrically powered units.  It uses both tritium and fiber optic light sources, so it does have versatility.  Meprolight warrantees the tritium light source for 10 years. and with a tritium half life of 12.4 years, it'll still be producing useable light for 20+ years minimum.  It's not a bad idea to have an EMP/CME proof back-up sight.

[Erick]

Jackalope.

Point well taken it sounds like you are runnign a good unit.
Not too worried about EMP/CMP with my elecrooptics.
The circuits are fairly short.. hard for EMP to build up a charge in short connections.

Unless I lose one unit to a fluke I expect all my Aimpoints and EOtechs to survive an EMP

[CJS06]

One of the advantages of the Elcan.  It does have an illuminated dot or reticle selector which as Erik said is a very short circuit and has a strong chance of surviving EMP.  It also has a fixed etched reticle with a very intuitive BDC.  On my go to rifle its ability to switch to 4x allows me to get more effective hits out farther (300+ yds) than the dot alone......without needing to switch rifles. In 1x it has a nice big field of view similar to my Aimpoint T1. Due to the eye releif I am only a hair slower with the Elcan than with the T1 or Trijicon MRO that I also like, with a bit more effectiveness at distance.  Definitely not for everyone but it works for me.

[grizz]

Yeah, the Meprolight M21 is probably my next optical acquisition.  It must be semi-reliable if the Israeli military is using it.

SEEALL also makes a nice one that does not require batteries and its in the $100-$200 range