Author Topic: EMP and CME thoughts  (Read 1120 times)

gadget99

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EMP and CME thoughts
« on: May 11, 2016, 02:48:43 PM »
This has been a topic that has caused a great deal of fear and discussion.

Been thinking on it a bit as of late. Really thinking on the perspective of effects.

After a great deal of thought I have come to a personal understanding a bit.

First off. I can see how the power grid, un-protected electronics and such will get hammered.

Yet I do wish to point out a few very important items that I feel will be ok.

Airplanes get hit by lightning all the time. So I think they will be ok.

The other is that I believe that vehicles will also be ok. Rolling Faraday cages.  Some might get hit if they are running at the time. Yet we need to see on that one.

I am still studying up on this. Yet I have downgraded this in terms of impact due to what I have deduced to this point.

Cheers Gadget

brat

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Re: EMP and CME thoughts
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2016, 04:18:38 PM »
Quote
Airplanes get hit by lightning all the time. So I think they will be ok.

Probably, but they ain't going nowhere without ground control and their radar, computers and stuff (the unprotected electronics). Unless they're just gonna taxi.....

gadget99

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Re: EMP and CME thoughts
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2016, 04:46:08 PM »
Quote
Airplanes get hit by lightning all the time. So I think they will be ok.

Probably, but they ain't going nowhere without ground control and their radar, computers and stuff (the unprotected electronics). Unless they're just gonna taxi.....

That is a point. However I don't believe we are looking at them falling out of the skies.

For myself the automobile thing is of prime interest. I was looking at getting an old vehicle to mitigate this. Not anymore.

Now I am looking at getting another simple generator, a mill and a lathe. With all the tools I now have. I am confident I can get diesel vehicles going no problem and pretty sure I can do gasoline ones also with enough scavenging.

Then again I am a bit of a jack of all trades.

Heck ... I have the ability to cobble together a rig to make Diesel and Gasoline/Wood alcohol if needed.

Guess my post was intended to calm the "oh crap" fears a bit on the EMP/CME stuff.

Offline JoJo

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Re: EMP and CME thoughts
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2016, 06:54:13 PM »
Here is a very long article about EMP/CME
. It will relive some of your fears and maybe give you a couple of new ones.

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html

Like you I believe that most cars that are not running at the time of an EMP would start and run at least until they run out of gas.
No electric no gas station pumping.
You will have approximately two days notice to load up on gas and supply's if you log on to this site every morning. It shows CME as they are happening

 http://www.suspicious0bservers.org/
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 06:56:24 PM by JoJo »
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Offline Nemo

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Re: EMP and CME thoughts
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2016, 07:15:08 PM »

Like you I believe that most cars that are not running at the time of an EMP would start and run at least until they run out of gas.

No electric no gas station pumping.

Thats why I make sure I have a good size diesel genny with a pretty good quantity of fuel.  Along with a smaller gas (2) with extra cans and all properly protected..

Nemo
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brat

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Re: EMP and CME thoughts
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2016, 08:09:42 AM »
Thanks for the links JoJo.

Offline Kbop

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Re: EMP and CME thoughts
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2016, 08:10:15 AM »

Yet I do wish to point out a few very important items that I feel will be ok.

Airplanes get hit by lightning all the time. So I think they will be ok.

The other is that I believe that vehicles will also be ok. Rolling Faraday cages.  Some might get hit if they are running at the time. Yet we need to see on that one.


Hi Gadget,  about airplanes - they get hit by lightning and are mostly thin Al - a Faraday cage full of holes... but the major difference between a lightning strike and the Compton effect is not the total power per cubic meter but  the wavelength and energy at a specific frequency.  I would not volunteer to be in an airplane during an EMP, it would probably be a bad day.  The computers, especially those LOS from the windows or attached to wiring that is LOS would conduct the charge into the computers and that  isn't a recipe for continued operation.  If the airplane has optical cables for data transmission you might be in good shape but power might still get fried.  Even if the worst thing that happens is the computers all go off line, that means you can't fly the aircraft - so you go in a straight line until the fuel runs out and then gravity takes notice.
- now add to that Brat's point.

i agree about the cars. :thumbsUp:  it would be hit and miss.  parked in an underground garage or in the shadow of a building or even just luck - they are rolling Faraday cages.  I think on average more cars will survive an EMP than aircraft.

One problem - to my mind - are some of the analogies we use.  EMP would have some similarities to a lightning bolt.  To follow that analogy with another using water, think of this - a lightning bolt is a bit like a waterfall <localized and powerful> and EMP is more like a rain storm <defuse and short>.  Now imagine electronics melting like a sugar cube - waterfall or rain storm it is going to melt.  hardening like using a faraday cage is like using a waterproof case.  you have to keep enough water out to keep the sugar from melting - i guess in empirical terms about -30dB at the frequencies of interest - if memory serves.  Electrical lines will act like an antenna for an EMP - just like a lightning bolt.  this is like having a hole in your waterproof case.  if your Genset is attached to the grid, the wiring will direct the energy into the sensitive insides of the generator.  You can get the generator running again but what about the voltage regulators or the insulation between the coils?  If the engine runs but the generator if FUBAR you have only solved half the problem.  a generator in storage would have a much better chance of surviving an EMP.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 08:12:41 AM by Kbop »

gadget99

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Re: EMP and CME thoughts
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2016, 08:13:11 AM »
Great info Kbop.....

Lots to think on.

Offline thatGuy

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Re: EMP and CME thoughts
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2016, 11:37:54 PM »
It is very interesting to think about only sensitive and grid tied electronics going down.. still not awesome but a much different more Mad Maxy kinda vision.

Offline Erick

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Re: EMP and CME thoughts
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2016, 07:07:24 PM »
Lots of accurate stuff said in this thread by gadget and others.

I have taught a couple of operator level classes on this subject and most importantly one of the co-authors of the congressional EMP studies sits 2 floors below me and I've double-checked my material with him.

Everything that was said in this thread on EMP was correct which is a refreshing change from other prepper sites.

Feel free to ask questions about the nuances if you like though.

respectfully,

E.
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