Author Topic: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else  (Read 1827 times)

CrystalHunter1989

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Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« on: May 04, 2013, 07:19:00 PM »
I just HAD to vent a little...

It never ceases to amaze me how, in our society, ownership=identity.

The debate of 1911 v. Everything Else (usually Glock) has raged since the Wonder Nine's first appeared in the 1980s. Since the advent of online shooting forums, the debate has reached new levels of retard.

The entire premise of the debate is stupid! And here's why, starting with a brief synopsis of both guns.

Browning's 1911 was designed to provide the US Army a reliable automatic pistol. At that time, there were only two reliable auto pistols in the world: the Mauser C96 and the P-08 Luger. The 1911 was the army's first gun to utilize smokeless powder and easily outmatched the Colt 1899 revolver, whose poor performance during the Moro Rebellion drove the army to field a new pistol in the first place.

The 1911 is often criticized for its features, such as the manual safety lever or the grip safety (put there because ignorant GIs in WWI carried theirs, hot, in a loose bag which led to discharges and injuries). People don't like single-stack magazines (the most reliable at the time, it wouldn't change until the Hi-Power in 1935). They don't like the 7-round capacity. These are all valid reasons, but they can be explained by the training methodology of the era. In 1911, America was one of few armies who issued pistols to their enlisted men. In Europe, pistols were reserved for officers, whose main job was keeping order in the ranks, even if it meant shooting mutineers. Also, a pistol was seen as a back-up weapon. You were expected to use the rifle first, then the handgun.

Then Glock came along in the 1980s and threw both anti-gunners and hardline traditionalists into a frenzy. Gaston Glock's no-frills pistol became the shooting industry's biggest guilty pleasure....until someone proved that they worked and weren't made of plastic. Glock embodies a methodology usually applied to revolvers: "All you have to do is pull the trigger."

The debate between the two is stupid. Both designs are almost 100 years apart, and many things have changed. Military, police and especially civilians are training for scenarios where a pistol is their only weapon. The price of ammunition alone is causing people, even professionals, to train less.

The 1911 by itself is a fabulous gun, but it wasn't until the end of WWII that it became the legendary relic of Superman that it is now. Initially, the US Army is the only group of people who carried it. During Prohibition, only rich mobsters and federal agents had them. Nobody else could afford them! Revolvers dominated the law enforcement and civilian markets until the 1990s. The 1911 is indeed a great gun. However, the learning curve is much higher than the Glock, which is the reason Glocks became so popular in the first place. Most gun schools have separate classes for 1911 owners because the manual of arms is alien to most shooters. If you're not willing to consistently master the manual safety as part of your draw-shoot-scan-reholster routine, then the 1911 isn't the gun for you. This gets people killed. When under the stress of a life-threatening encounter, they don't hit the safety switch before pulling the trigger on the bad guy. But the Marine Corps and Special Forces units still carry Browing's masterpiece for a reason: they know how to use it.

Any trained soldier will tell you that it's the human who is the real weapon, not the tool. They don't gloat about their guns, they gloat about the ability to use a wide variety of guns to accomplish the mission.

Don't miss my rant on my M16 v. AK47 debate.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2013, 09:13:50 PM »
Well CH, I like the 1911 for the caliber e.g. .45ACP.

I have never fired a G21 however i might change my EDC if someone would send me one to try out :-)
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CrystalHunter1989

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2013, 09:36:39 PM »
Well CH, I like the 1911 for the caliber e.g. .45ACP.

I have never fired a G21 however i might change my EDC if someone would send me one to try out :-)

Take it from me, the G21 is a wonderful combat .45.

1000meterstare

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2013, 10:41:32 PM »
I prefer a single-stack, .45 ACP that is neither a 1911 OR a Glock.  Does that make me a freak?

1000meterstare

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2013, 10:44:54 PM »
P.S.  If someone passed a law that required me to carry a double-stack or nothing at all there is only 2 possibles in my mind:  The Browning Hi-Power or the CZ-75.  As an added bonus they both are among the sexiest handguns on the planet. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

Offline Kentactic

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2013, 11:38:16 AM »
I dont always use a handgun for self defense, but when i do i prefer the one in my hands.
Simplicity Is Ideal...

Offline RONSERESURPLUS

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2013, 06:53:12 PM »
Well, I see this as  a well thought out post, I am a 1911a1 fan, thats on record, I also carry a Double stack 9MM a BHP clone, I never did see 9MM or 45 as Best but what I wanted  BOTH! Carry what ya like and are most comfortable Unless it;s an airsoft?


Ron

Offline Grudgie

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2013, 09:26:00 PM »
Quote
The debate between the two is stupid. Both designs are almost 100 years apart, and many things have changed. Military, police and especially civilians are training for scenarios where a pistol is their only weapon. The price of ammunition alone is causing people, even professionals, to train less.

The debate is not stupid. Many things have changed, correct. But the Glock and 1911 are both being used in the same role. I'm sorry if you don't care which is better, but unfortunately the 1911 is an inferior design, however marginally. And what grinds my gears is how a 1911 advocate refuses to believe this because it 'fits in there hand better' or it looks bad ass, or they misguidedly like to be labeled 'old fashion'.

I'm not one to tell anybody what gun to buy but dam.. functionally, there are better and cheaper guns out there.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 09:38:06 PM by special-k »

Offline sledge

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2013, 11:39:07 PM »
AR vrs AK, Gov 45 vrs everything else, wow, don't exactly sound like the makings of a love fest does it?  :lmfao:

I know plenty of guys who have an AR and an AK.  And everyone I know that has a 1911 has other pistol models as well.  And usually a couple of revolvers thrown in just to round things out.  Everyone buys a particular gun because they like some qualities at it.  Different guns have different qualities.

Kind of like blondes, brunettes, and red heads.  They're each a little different, but as you go along you just want to put your hands on each until you find one that just feels right.  Same with different pistol models.  Maybe ones a little more modern, maybe ones a little more old fashioned, but sooner or later you find one that just makes you go, "Damn, that one's a keeper."  The only difference between guns and women is that with guns you can keep the ones that you tried out along the way lookin for the right one.   
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 11:42:49 PM by sledge »



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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2013, 08:34:51 AM »
Man Sledge, you are turning into the forums philosopher.  :thumbsUp: :coffeeNews:
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Offline RONSERESURPLUS

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2013, 03:05:16 PM »
I am going to admit Right up front, I am a 1911a1 Guy, Have i TRIED AND CARRIED A gLOCK,  a Sig or others Yup! I just see many factors on the glock that don;lt make it work for me, I hate the Ultra Wide Grip, I can't get used to the weight empty Vs Loaded feel, do I think 1911A1 is better, YUP, For me it is! I know it inside and out and have carried for 3 decades, Do I know Glocks work and are a Great design, YUP, They Just arn't me and never do I see that Changing!

Ron L

Offline Kentactic

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2013, 11:56:36 AM »
All I can say is be carefull with those 1911's. Theres this funky lever that if engaged keeps the gun from firing. No clue why they'd do that. Its like having a button on your car that destroys the motor lol.  But anyways...
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Ridiculous Gun Debates: 1911 v. Everyone Else
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2013, 12:14:57 PM »
Welcome back Ken!
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