Marijuana and Gun Ownership: ATF just says NO.

[505th.NM.Militia]

This has been a hot issue for a lot of people who have state issued medical marijuana prescriptions, and the fed finally said their piece.  In many states marijuana has been prescribed medicinally or decriminalized altogether, but the ATF is saying that being in possesion of, or using a class one controlled substance (like marijuana) and possesing firearms is illegal.   

 http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/You-have-to-choose-Guns-or-pot-but-not-both-2195215.php

 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-09-29/medical-marijuana-guns/50607606/1

[Kentactic]

that sucks for the people who truely need it. id say a good portion have no true medial use for it though.

[WhiskeyJack]

I say its a violation of the 2nd and Hippocratic. The BEATF is worried about pot heads leagal or otherwise, But What about prescription narcotics or booze. I'm a hell of allot more worried about a drunk with a gun than a pot head with a gun. Its a straight up violatin of the 2nd amendment in my eyes. but the way the gov is treating it is foolish and wastefull. I really wish the federal agencies would get their priorities in order. And I'm a little more pissed off about the dept of justice spending $16 per muffin at their conferences than i am about a pot head buying a glock. When are we going to arrest some one for wastefully spending millions on conferences during the worst recession in American history??? Instead our gov concerns itself with the personal business of the states and private citezens. I'm not a pot head my self but i have no issues whatsoever with marijuana use. I personally think that alcohol is far more detrimental to a persons health and causes more impairment to a persons reasoning skills. Sometimes the lack of reasoning in the gov is just flat out unbearable.

[Kentactic]

yeah its just another way to get guns out of citizens hands. but i do believe it is against the law to be in possession of firearms in public while under the influence of alcohol. the only reason they are able to stop any pot head from owning a gun is they have a registered card so they know they are using it. im sure if alcohol required a card it would be in the same boat. and as far as health goes they both have bad long term affects. one destroys your lungs the other destroys your liver and they both mess up your brain.

[sledge]

It's the nanny sate doing what the nanny state does.

I read an article the other day that said there is a white paper circulating the DOJ suggesting the dismantling of the ATF as a way to cover the Presidents rear for Gun Runner. 

Edit:  Bombshell: DOJ Considering Elimination Of ATF
http://patdollard.com/2011/09/bombshell-doj-considering-elimination-of-atf/

[WhiskeyJack]

I agree with you totally ken. I just think that people have a right to live their lives as they see fit. Yes smoking pot ruins your lungs which is why more and more people are turning to consumables. I personally like to have a nice scotch from time to time. But i would much rather spend my money on preps than booze or pot. I just see them as distractions to what i want to do in my life more than anything else. I wouldn't mind seeing pot legalized and taxed in the US. I would rather see American citezens making a living off pot and contributing to the taxable income, than cartells making billions and destroying lives in the process. I think that legalizing pot for Americans would chop a leg out from the cartels fiscal base. and that's alright by me.

[Kentactic]

I agree with you totally ken. I just think that people have a right to live their lives as they see fit. Yes smoking pot ruins your lungs which is why more and more people are turning to consumables. I personally like to have a nice scotch from time to time. But i would much rather spend my money on preps than booze or pot. I just see them as distractions to what i want to do in my life more than anything else. I wouldn't mind seeing pot legalized and taxed in the US. I would rather see American citezens making a living off pot and contributing to the taxable income, than cartells making billions and destroying lives in the process. I think that legalizing pot for Americans would chop a leg out from the cartels fiscal base. and that's alright by me.

yeah i hear ya. people should be able to do as they please. so long as they dont cease to be productive and ride my wallet that is. and maybe legalizing pot in america would be good thing. but i think we need much better reasons then "so the cartels wont make so much money" because by that thinking we should legalize cocaine and god knows what else.

i drink more then i should and have decided to cut it way back recently. sometimes that decision lasts 24 hours or sometimes im able to not take a sip of alcohol for 6 months straight so well see. but yes as you said its just a distraction without question.

[sledge]

Question:
How was the near police state we live in today achieved?

Answer: 
The war on drugs and the war on terror.

[NOLA556]

in Louisiana, being caught with a gun (legal or not) and ANY illegal controlled substance in the same place (I.E. in the same car, house, etc.) is a minimum prison sentence of 5 years.

I don't quite understand the logic behind it. generally, as far as I understand, when a person is arrested, if there is more than one charge, each charge is processed as it's own separate crime, they don't compile into one big super-crime. that's why when you see cases of multiple homicide, the perp will receive several life sentences. it's not because the court system thinks the guy might live to be 400 years old, it's because it's a life sentence for each murder. so my point is, if I'm legally carrying in my vehicle, and my idiot buddy has a bag of pot on him that he didn't tell me about... I get to disappear for 5 years because of it? it's fucking nonsense.

I stopped smoking that shit several years ago, and since then I've gone out of my way to distance myself from people who do it. but you'd be surprised how many times you find yourself around the stuff unintentionally.

[505th.NM.Militia]

I'm not going to defend the current medical marijuanna (MMJ) system, because time has proven that the system is easily corruptable and many of the "licsenced" providers and users are just gaming the system.  That being said my best friend and my sister are both disabled veterans and one is trying to get their MMJ card, and one isn't.  Both are suffering massive physical and emotional problems.   My sister has children, and isn't going to smoke pot just to feel a little better, but my friend can't take the HUNDREDS of prescription painkillers given to him without extremely negative side effects.   My friend claims if the VA found out he would lose every benifit he recieves as a DAV.   Talk about legislating morality.  It's cheap, aboundant, and not even illegal in our state.   

[Kentactic]

the day that marijuana was set to be legalized if the bill was passed in CA the border patrol caught a semi truck full of marijuana about 2 hours from the border at a checkpoint and then also found three more semi trucks loaded up in a tunnel on the border... it would seem to me the cartels were glad marijuana was going to be legalized. they just opened up there customer base a whole bunch... but as it turned out the bill failed and the hundreds of tons of drugs were recovered.

[sledge]

the day that marijuana was set to be legalized if the bill was passed in CA the border patrol caught a semi truck full of marijuana about 2 hours from the border at a checkpoint and then also found three more semi trucks loaded up in a tunnel on the border... it would seem to me the cartels were glad marijuana was going to be legalized. they just opened up there customer base a whole bunch... but as it turned out the bill failed and the hundreds of tons of drugs were recovered.

I don't have anything to do with dope.  But let me ask you this.  How did your society change.  How many freedoms did you lose.  How many swat teams were set up while the police were militarized and changed from peace officers to law enforcement officers.  How many deaths were caused from raids based on false information.  How many cameras were installed to track innocents as well as criminals.  All so those trucks of dope could be caught.

Our society has changed from top to bottom.  Very little of what you do in your life isn't regulated by one government body or another.  To me, I don't think it's worth it.

[NOLA556]

the day that marijuana was set to be legalized if the bill was passed in CA the border patrol caught a semi truck full of marijuana about 2 hours from the border at a checkpoint and then also found three more semi trucks loaded up in a tunnel on the border... it would seem to me the cartels were glad marijuana was going to be legalized. they just opened up there customer base a whole bunch... but as it turned out the bill failed and the hundreds of tons of drugs were recovered.

I don't have anything to do with dope.  But let me ask you this.  How did your society change.  How many freedoms did you lose.  How many swat teams were set up while the police were militarized and changed from peace officers to law enforcement officers.  How many deaths were caused from raids based on false information.  How many cameras were installed to track innocents as well as criminals.  All so those trucks of dope could be caught.

Our society has changed from top to bottom.  Very little of what you do in your life isn't regulated by one government body or another.  To me, I don't think it's worth it.

 [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

if nothing else, alcohol prohibition should have taught us a lesson way back in the day. all it did was drive people into a black market which inherently causes violence. sure, alcohol abuse causes people to act differently, sometimes more violently, or at least more proned to overreact to small things, but at least all that isn't the direct result of the sale of it. how many people do you think would be getting shot over drugs if you could just walk down to the corner store and buy it? take away the black market, and you also take away the concept of "turf" among gangs because there would be no commodity to sell on your "turf". gangs are pointless to begin with, but take away the potential to make money on the underground market and you essentially gut out the very core of why gangs exist in the first place.

the people in power aren't too stupid to realize this, I believe it's intentional.

[Kentactic]

the day that marijuana was set to be legalized if the bill was passed in CA the border patrol caught a semi truck full of marijuana about 2 hours from the border at a checkpoint and then also found three more semi trucks loaded up in a tunnel on the border... it would seem to me the cartels were glad marijuana was going to be legalized. they just opened up there customer base a whole bunch... but as it turned out the bill failed and the hundreds of tons of drugs were recovered.

I don't have anything to do with dope.  But let me ask you this.  How did your society change.  How many freedoms did you lose.  How many swat teams were set up while the police were militarized and changed from peace officers to law enforcement officers.  How many deaths were caused from raids based on false information.  How many cameras were installed to track innocents as well as criminals.  All so those trucks of dope could be caught.

Our society has changed from top to bottom.  Very little of what you do in your life isn't regulated by one government body or another.  To me, I don't think it's worth it.

but your missing the bigger picture i think... thats not truely why they have all those things...thats just the excuse. wether marijuana is legalized or not those things will continue..theyll just have new excuses. you can legalize weed, cocaine, murder and rape but the cameras will still be there... the swat teams will still be raiding peoples houses.

[Kentactic]

the day that marijuana was set to be legalized if the bill was passed in CA the border patrol caught a semi truck full of marijuana about 2 hours from the border at a checkpoint and then also found three more semi trucks loaded up in a tunnel on the border... it would seem to me the cartels were glad marijuana was going to be legalized. they just opened up there customer base a whole bunch... but as it turned out the bill failed and the hundreds of tons of drugs were recovered.

I don't have anything to do with dope.  But let me ask you this.  How did your society change.  How many freedoms did you lose.  How many swat teams were set up while the police were militarized and changed from peace officers to law enforcement officers.  How many deaths were caused from raids based on false information.  How many cameras were installed to track innocents as well as criminals.  All so those trucks of dope could be caught.

Our society has changed from top to bottom.  Very little of what you do in your life isn't regulated by one government body or another.  To me, I don't think it's worth it.

if nothing else, alcohol prohibition should have taught us a lesson way back in the day. all it did was drive people into a black market which inherently causes violence. sure, alcohol abuse causes people to act differently, sometimes more violently, or at least more proned to overreact to small things, but at least all that isn't the direct result of the sale of it. how many people do you think would be getting shot over drugs if you could just walk down to the corner store and buy it? take away the black market, and you also take away the concept of "turf" among gangs because there would be no commodity to sell on your "turf". gangs are pointless to begin with, but take away the potential to make money on the underground market and you essentially gut out the very core of why gangs exist in the first place.

the people in power aren't too stupid to realize this, I believe it's intentional.

im not against legalizing pot.. truth be told i dont know what my stance is on it... but.. if you legalize it then that just brings the crime above ground. just like any other seemingly legal thing to sell... then youve got guys doing tax evasion to make a bigger profit etc... where there is profit there is crime. legalize anything you want and there will still be crime in it.

[sledge]

You're right ken.  The war on drugs was a step, the war on terror was the next step, I'm wondering if what is beginning in NY is the last step.  Does anyone happen to know how big the crowds have to get before Obama pushes the button?  Just curious.


Edit: I was reading a post that was a call for the militia's to come to NY to protect the protesters.  Considering NY's gun laws I think that would just about do it.  I'll bet the ATF would show up in droves. 

[505th.NM.Militia]

You're right ken.  The war on drugs was a step, the war on terror was the next step, I'm wondering if what is beginning in NY is the last step.  Does anyone happen to know how big the crowds have to get before Obama pushes the button?  Just curious.

Yeah it turns out the problem was the citizenry all along.  War on people. 

[Kentactic]

You're right ken.  The war on drugs was a step, the war on terror was the next step, I'm wondering if what is beginning in NY is the last step.  Does anyone happen to know how big the crowds have to get before Obama pushes the button?  Just curious.


Edit: I was reading an post that was a call for the militia's to come to NY to protect the protesters.  Considering NY's gun laws I think that would just about do it.  I'll bet the ATF would show up in droves.

yeah if large amounts of militia forces showed up in NY then youd immediatly have a literal war. especially with the NY gunlaws and an easy excuse to try to disarm them. this could get bad fast.

[sledge]

Yeah, there you go 505.   War on Drugs ---> War on Terror -----> War on the People ----->  Total Control

I'm thinking you are pretty close there.

[tominphx]

Marijuana is federally illegal, the ATF is a federal agency, FFL are licensed by the federal government. State governments decide to have "medical" marijuana. It may be legal in that state, but it is sill illegal in the USA, hence it is "unlawful" anywhere in the country as far as federal law enforcement are concerned. Any user would be an "unlawful user" as defined on a 4473. Medical marijuana cards are licenses just like a drivers license, or a CCW, and are issued by the state, not a doctor, so there is not issue with confidentiality.

Do I like the ATF? Hell no. Do I like federal drug prohibitions? Absolutely not. Are they legally in the right on this issue? There is simply no debate, they are.

I think this is a waste of time for them, although their mission has always been to pretty much get as many guns out of the hands of American citizens as possible (and into the hands of mexican drug cartels?) and never about real law enforcement.

[EJR914]

Question:
How was the near police state we live in today achieved?

Answer: 
The war on drugs and the war on terror.

You nailed it, sledge.

[EJR914]

I don't have anything to do with dope.  But let me ask you this.  How did your society change.  How many freedoms did you lose.  How many swat teams were set up while the police were militarized and changed from peace officers to law enforcement officers.  How many deaths were caused from raids based on false information.  How many cameras were installed to track innocents as well as criminals.  All so those trucks of dope could be caught.

Our society has changed from top to bottom.  Very little of what you do in your life isn't regulated by one government body or another.  To me, I don't think it's worth it.

Great post, sledge.  Well said, its all true.

[EJR914]

yeah if large amounts of militia forces showed up in NY then youd immediatly have a literal war. especially with the NY gunlaws and an easy excuse to try to disarm them. this could get bad fast.

Yeah, its possible, but its not a definite. 

Georgia used to have a "public gathering" law, and it stated that political rallies were a public gathering in the law, a felony, see Camillia Massacre, and the Black Panthers decided to hold a political rally where they ALL held shotguns.  Now some of those guys were probably felons, and I would put money on very few of them having Georgia Weapons Licenses, and the COPS did NOTHING.  They just sat back and watched.

Now Georgia is a lot different then NY, because NY is certainly even more authoritarian, but I wouldn't be so sure that police officers would be willing to try to disarm a large group of people with guns.  They don't want to see the footage of a massive bloodbath that they started for the world to see.  Videos uploaded to the internet.  Even if they press a kill switch the message will still get out.  You've got to think about stuff like that as well. 

Of course, it could go terribly wrong, but there's also a chance they will give the people respect, simply because there are so many of them armed to the teeth, not to mention, if they were smart, they'd have a dozen DM's secretly overwatching their positions.   [img]http://www.smileydesign.n

[Kentactic]

not to mention, if they were smart, they'd have a dozen DM's secretly overwatching their positions.

yeah if there cause was a good one i might be interested in that. they lost me at demand number 11 or 12....what ever number the one is where they want open borders...

[RS762]

Im going to be honest, i don't really give a fuck what the ATF says, this is just another thing that makes them look more like the jack booted morons that we all know they are.