Low Profile SHTF "war belt" setup

[USMC0331]

So the more I think about SHTF scenarios, the more I see a need to have more than an EDC load-out of a handgun, spare mag, light like I carry now and the need to add comms, AR mags and a BOK during eventful times.

It seems everyone has a setup for full on battle rattle and then the next step down is EDC.  I don't see much need for full battle rattle and really have no use for a traditional war belt as they are very bulky and outside of a shooting class, seem to just get in the way if you are living in one, especially in a vehicle.

I do see the benefit of having a belt system though as my muscle memory goes to the belt first for pistol and carbine reload (3gun) and having E-loads for both there is a good idea IMO.


So I did find the HTC Low Profile System, but it seems to be the only option out there and at $500.00 it's a non-starter. 

I am planning on ordering some kydex though and making my own version of it.

Does anyone see the benefits of this type of system?  I'm thinking keeping things concealed is a good idea even around the homestead in SHTF but having a decent fighting load would sure make me feel better in WROL. 

This rig allows you to have discreet comms (using an earpiece) on hand while moving in public and with a broken down AR15 in a discreet "messenger" bag, you have a hell of a setup.

When things go really bad, you just throw on a PC and your fully kitted up.

I do plan on making the BOK smaller, trying to make a more compact double AR mag carrier instead of the two singles to save space, and using a velcro inner/outer belt system to hold it in place, depending on the wight, possibly adding thin shoulder straps also.

Thoughts?

[thatGuy]

I've been thinking what you're thinking for a long time now, contact Mlee, his kydex is super and he does great work for the money.

[USMC0331]

Thanks for the contact TG, I've actually made a few holsters and don't see any problems with  that part of it, I'm just wondering if the concept is sound and why I have not read about the approach more online

[Deathstyle]

As far as smaller BOK. You could look into ITS's kit or make one similar to it.

http://www.itstactical.com/store/edc/its-edc-trauma-kit/

http://www.itstactical.com/store/edc/edc-slimline-pouch/

[thatGuy]

ITS is a great resource.

I do support the idea DVC and have gone that way myself. I don't see the need to run a chest rig if it doesn't have armor in it nor do I see the need to carry around 6 mags on a daily basis. I've drawn heavily on the combat experience of my brother in law. After multiple combat tours in Afghanistan (which resembles my native New Mexico) he has concluded that unless you intend to contest ownership of a piece of land you will be able to provide a high enough volume of out bound fire with 5 mags (4 in the rig 1 in the gun) to safely unass the country.

After several long discussions we concluded that 3 magazines should be more then enough to cover the couple hundred yards back to the house. Currently my set up resembles a three gun rig. I've got 2 mags for my pistol and rifle, a very Spartan blowout rig, my radio, a rolly dump bag, flashlight and my pistol. That's 45 rounds for the pistol and 84 rounds of 5.56. Well directed, that is a hell of a lot of pew pew. 

Now keep in mind that if you wear your chest rig with the right sized armor and at the right height it won't interfere with a belt until you contort into the oddest positions. In that capacity it is an add on or upgrade including more ammo, water, admin and armor.

With that in mind I intend to upgrade my current chest rig to one of the new minimalist style rigs, on it I intend to run 4 more mags for my rifle, the rest of my blowout kit and a hydration bladder. I'm still up in the air as to how much administrative stuff I'll be needing in my own AO. A map or two but past that I don't see the need for 9 line cards and what not

[USMC0331]

TG, glad to hear I'm not alone in my thinking. My banshee PC rides high enough to clear my EDC holster and I will be making this rig to be the same height so it should work as planned.

I was thinking of a CH addition anytime I'm "outside the wire" and the PC replacing it for defensive positions, but now feel that OTW is either going to be low pro or I will want plates as in vehicle ops.

I'll look at ITS for the BOK. What I really want is a simple 4x5x1 zipper pouch with NO molle an Velcro on the back. Instead of the removable option like HTC has which is bulky. One of the reviewers said it really stuck out and watching PFC Training's video showed it printed a bit more than I liked.

A simple Velcro attachment for the pouch with some combat gauze and IZZY-D inside and a CAT-T attached on top via 2" elastic should work well.

I'm also trying to decide on some kind of kydex "belt keeper" system or the traditional inner/outer Velcro belts. The latter mean more money and a dedicated belt.

Regular LEO type keepers would be a pain to put on with this rig. Small suspenders might work, especially the elastic working man type commonly found in stores.

[Currahee]

I totally lost the utility of a "war belt" soon after they became popular- I wore a "duty belt" for years three gunning.

I find that with a good belt I can just be modular and add things. I have some Kydex AR mag pouches that clip on- totally home made (also double as shotgun strippers for 3 gun) double pistol mag pouches, BOK and OWB vs IWB holster.

Most war belts I see have minimal utility outside of someone just not wanting to wear a chest rig.

[Outonowhere]

If you are looking for suspenders I recommend the SOE ones.  They are adjustable and work great.

I have a belt that I wear with my CH which mostly has my line one gear and my BOK.  For my BOK I just have a simple (approx) 3x4x6 pouch that has plastic walls on the sides.I put 2 small loops of shock cordage through one side so that I am able to attach a CAT-T to it.  Unsure of the make of the pouch but I believe I got it some time ago from an "airsoft" store, but the quality is good and it has held up to MUCH abuse.

[CrystalHunter1989]

I just bought an ATS Rigger's belt, but only because I was tired of the crappy leather belts from Walmart wearing out on me as I keep shrinking in the waist. Glad to know I can add stuff to it if need be.

[Currahee]

I just got a new Chest rig and made a video of its maiden range trip for the company, but it also shows ho well a simple belt works with a chest rig or as a stand alone.

Testing New Gear (UWGEAR chest rig)

[USMC0331]

About time C, been looking at that old CH of yours for years now!

[USMC0331]

The problem I have with your rig (minus CH) is two pistol mags as a primary is very limited.

Your belt in that video is my EDC minus the AR mag and adding an AR mag and another pistol mag was always my plan for LoPro SHTF setup but then the idea got extended out into scenarios of moving through town with a battle buddy for a barter meet or convoy travel where full kit is not wanted, I.e. Katrina level SHTF not TEOTWAKI

If I'm keeping a carbine broke down or in the vehicle, I want some stuff to get me to it or if I can't get to it, enough to get me out of trouble. An EDC of two mags and a light are good but in a Katrina I'd want 4 pistol mags, COMMS and a holster that can hold the gun with a WML, plus some med kit or CAT-T at minimum.

Having all that on the belt and concealable under an oversized shirt is a great base I as the PC which stays cleaner with just 6 AR mags on front and a camelback on back, no side stuff to get in the way of the draw.

LoPro but higher capacity and COMMS then an EDC rig like your belt.

So only single stacked mags (3) on the rig? How does it do retaining partials in the on board dump pouch or putting them back in the pouches without resecuring?

I use open top pouches with kydex inserts myself and store partials bullets up when doing Tacloads having a top cover would be cool if I planned to go fight with the guerrillas but I don't see the need for them myself and I'll take the speed over extra security, but that's another topic.

[USMC0331]

http://youtu.be/iBvNGtK0-xA

[rah45]

Thanks a lot, DVC. I really appreciate it. Now I have to wipe up my  .

[APX808]

Sorry guys, but that belt on the first pic is "Low Profile"?

I think if you're going to be carrying that, you could easily be carrying  a vest, that will provide a better weight distribution and more load capacity.
What's the point of having 2 rifle mags in your "low profile" belt if you are going to be carrying a long weapon to use them and just with that your low profile disappeared?

If you want to go low profile, you should distribute the equipment in your pockets and usual belt, and carry a common backpack with extra stuff if you wish.

I saw DVC prepper mentioning vehicles, I think the best approach in that case, is to have a real low profile setup, with your stuff in your pockets, and have a Go-Bag in the vehicle to carry a vest and extra mags.

On an extra note, bulky belt lines are never "low profile", is the first place to look for a weapon in someone.

[USMC0331]

I think people are missing the point.  The idea is to have a lowpro setup that is built on to full kit.  Using a CH (outside of a tenspeed setup, which sucks to work out of) is not going to be more lowpro then this belt setup, you are welcome to prove me wrong with video using the same cover garment as the last vid.

The other issue with the CH is that it does enhance the addition of armor or maintain the same mechanics between EDC style lowpro and full kit. 

The belt allows speed reloads on rifle and pistol from the same index as your EDC pistol carry and allows RWR to come from the PC front.  The belt also allows reloads on the rifle from positions that make the front of the PC hard to do.

Working out of a grab bag, diaper bag, etc. is good for TV (ala Jack Bauer) but sucks in reality.

Obviously when you take out the carbine things are no longer lowpro, but picture the scenario where you are about town with the carbine in the vehicle. When fighting back to the vehicle (thus heavy on pistol mags) haul ass out of the area and transition to the rifle as your primary, you now have one mag in the gun (one on the stock pouch?) and a speed load ready on your belt.  No donning anything, no working from a bag or pack.

This rig will conceal under a long oversized shirt.  Obviously not be hidden completely, most can't hide their EDC without printing, let alone add a radio, 3mags, 1 ar mag, WML holstered gun, BOK.  To put all that in separate pockets and still have only a large shirt for concealment is going to require bulging cargo pockets I'm thinking. 

I've tried to EDC a BOK with my normal G17, extra mag, P6 light and there is no place for it in a standard set of jeans when you consider the wallet and phone, keys, knife are also looking to use the pockets.  I don't put anything in the back pockets for obvious reasons.

APX, you point about the waist line being the first place "AWARE PEOPLE" look is very valid.  Most are not aware. Those that are aware will think twice about messing with someone wearing that kit and presenting the correct posture, I know I would.

The main criteria driving me this direction is having a pistol heavy loadout and MOA that does not change between "enhanced EDC" carry and the addition of a PC.  I have been searching for days and this is the only thing that remotely solves the problem. 

I think most are content to go from EDC to full kit.  I see the bulk of needing firepower in SHTF in the "middle" of those two, and the pistol being the primary weapon with the carbine near by but out of sight.

[APX808]

You asked for opinions I gave you mine, I don't care about convincing you otherwise, so don't expect me doing a video about this.
If you think no one will notice that big ass belt, and want to carry rifle mags when you don't have a rifle on your hands, more power to you.

The grab bag isn't from TV shows, is SOP in vehicle operations, specially to avoid leaving intel inside the car.
You can find James Yeager or Max Velocity suggesting their use.

[USMC0331]

Settle down now, I appreciate your opinion even if it's not backed up or valid IMO.  

I challenged Gabe Suarez online about the speed of working out of a chest rig verses his famous diaper bags and chair holder/rifle bag.  I signed up for his class that was coming to town and said we could put it on the clock and he dropped me from the class, banned me from his forum because I stood by my motto "show me or STFU" of which I will gladly do for anyone else.

I'm not saying this is the way, I'm pretty sure it is, but the point of a forum is to ask others what they see wrong with your own ideas.  Just saying "that's FUBAR" and having no alternative doesn't add much to the convo, either does saying XYZ works better when it hasn't been put to the test.  I like the CH idea, but it doesn't fit into the overall picture.

You said the belt was not concealable and that running gear out of the pockets was a better option.  I say put it to the test.  There are high threat security guys using it world wide as it was developed for them, gotta count for something right?

As for intel in the vehicle, this rig does nothing to change that principle.  Even a well sorted "active shooter" bag SUCKS in comparison to a belt rig when shooting and moving. 

Watch Yeagers famous video in the sandbox and tell me where his "go bag" is in it?  In the car with his dying comrades.  Off body carry is never a great idea.

[special-k]

My 2?:

War belts have their place, especially when it comes to the speed of donning & doffing.  But fantasizing that a war belt is "low profile" (in the hidden sense) is just flat out wrong.  I don't care if you wear a trench coat over any of the ones pictured in this thread, you're gonna get spotted by anyone within yelling distance.

[APX808]

but the point of a forum is to ask others what they see wrong with your own ideas.  Just saying "that's FUBAR" and having no alternative doesn't add much to the convo, either does saying XYZ works better when it hasn't been put to the test

I gave you my ideas, so you had your alternative, but as you didn't like them, you started calling them "not backed up".

Using the same criteria, I wonder where is "your test" and "your proof" that your approach is better, I'm not seeing it.

Besides, that show me or STFU approach in an internet forum is retarded, people give you their ideas, if you like them good, if you don't carry on, otherwise everyone would be filming videos 24/7 or just reading what the enlighted people has to say.

[USMC0331]

LOL, ok APX, I'm sorry if I offended you. 

Video will be made when I've completed the project.  As for proof, you can prove it to yourself.  Set up a COF, run it with both systems on a shot clock and video both (for yourself to review) to see which works best.  We should all be doing that with our gear if we are to know what works best, not just what we think will.

I have run drills and COFs in a CH and belt rig.  Belt rig is much faster because it's using placements that have hundreds of hours in live and dry fire burned into them ala 3gun. 

For the record I was not telling you to make a video or STFU, I was giving you my position on life, "show me". 

Everyone has their "pet" that most are not willing to evaluate lest their "pet" not hold up.  I'm here asking for people to throw darts at the idea, which you did.  I thank you for the input, but we don't have to agree and I will always give you a reason why I don't.  I will also always be willing to put it to the test. 

Some like my shooting partner know that their "pet" (in this case a 1911 45ACP) is not the best solution but stick with it for sentimental reasons.  As long as you accept the limitations of your system, soldier on, but until you prove to yourself that what you are doing is the best option or accept that you are working from a disadvantage, and change your tactics accordingly, you are cheating yourself.

Just sayin...

[sledge]

I like the concept behind a war belt, and the one pictured, with some alterations to suite my preferences, would have some practical use around a bol while working.  But I really don't see it as concealable.  I could be wrong, but suspect it would take a very unusual body shape to hide that puppy.

Back to the concept, IMO the war belt is what you have handy on you when you don't want to be restricted by the chest rig.  But it needs to be able to work in conjunction with a chest rig that is kept in fairly close proximity. (probably along with the rifle)

I don't think that many will be doing mandatory survival work around their bol with just one hand available because the other is holding a rifle.  And having a rifle slung over your shoulder while chopping wood would suck. {Although I haven't tested that on or off video.  } (Did anyone notice the double woods in that sentence?)

To each their own and take what you think will work for you.  But like I said, I like the idea of a war belt and want to see the finished product.


 

[USMC0331]

Sledge, you are on my line of thinking.  As for "concealable" I think that is the hangup point.  It's not "concealable" like we think when talking EDC concealed carry. 

It's "concealable" from observation at 25 yards+ and against "sheeple" at closer range with light cover and completely disappears under a jacket, but way more "concealable" than a normal war belt or chest rig throughout the spectrum of cover garments.  or at least that's my take on it.  Won't be able to prove it until it's done.

Living out a bit now, I've had two strangers (neighbors introducing themselves) come up to the house while I'm working around it and they got the drop on me because I'm in condition white in my "safe place" and busy working. 

SHTF, you still gotta work and having an AR slung or outwardly kitted up might = a sniper shot to your gord because they see that you are prepped and will take the least path of resistance.  Looking the part of a wolf can get you shot, verses someone underestimating you as a sheeple and showing their hand.

Having a carbine near and out of sight is the way, but "concealed" pistol and gear to fight to it is optimal no matter where you are that needs a bit of discretion, or so my thinking goes.

[sledge]

DVC I see your point about being kitted up potentially drawing a sniper ambush.  That is probably true away from the BOL while rummaging as well.  I remember reading a post quite sometime back, maybe it was on SP, can't remember who, that one of the guys was putting together what resembled a homeless person type of kit that wouldn't draw attention.  Could have been TG, I'm not sure.

But I remember thinking that it was pretty clever at the time and deserved consideration because there would be a period of time after a disaster where there would be checkpoints, be they military or civilian..  A war belt would definitely fit more into that type of kit than a chest rig.   

[USMC0331]

I personally see a chest rig as a better option and feel they conceal better, they just don't transition to full kit and retain muscle memory from EDC so they don't fit into my "less than full kit" needs.  My prior thinking was to have a CH as my second line while moving on foot and my PC as a static or vehicle position only option, but the more I think about it, the more I want armor if I'm willing to believe that I need all those extra rifle mags on the CH.

If I'm planning on a fight I want armor.  If I'm avoiding one, I want concealable and light with the option to transition to armor easily. 

The only place for a CH over a PC to me is to be guerrilla fighting and shedding the weight of armor, which doesn't fit into my plans.