Lever guns for SHTF/WROL or what ever type of scenario

[Alex1992]

Whether its for defense, SHTF, zombie invasion what ever I want to know you guys opinions on lever guns for what ever scenario. Me personally I think they are an ok weapon, they are reliable, easy to use and to clean.

Also they can shoot a variety of calibers and they are pretty good for CQB battles. The cons is that the ammo might be hard to find if your lever gun shoots 35 Remington or 444 Marlin. That's just my opinion I'm sure you might have different opinions but I want to know. Please be civil and no rude comments.

[Currahee]

The first rule of gun fighting is BRING A GUN.

I'm a fan of a person being able to run whatever they have, and a lever gun beats a sharpened stick or baseball bat all to heck. But I would not choose one if a reliable magazine fed semi automatic rifle was available.

Maybe if a person was a cowboy action shooter by avocation?  Lived in Alaska and spent most of their time hunting with one?

If It was a cost or legality thing I would just as soon have a pump shotgun.

[Kentactic]

Its a great gun if its in your hands when the fight starts. I'd try and have a better suited gun in hand when the fight started though. I run a pump shotgun personally. Its better then an AR at close range (25 yards or less) but I run it because its 100% "legal" and so I can train at will with it openly. The likely hood of me having it whe the fight starts is greater.

[Well-Prepared Witch]

What's a lever gun?

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[special-k]

What's a lever gun?

A lever gun is basically any "cowboy" or "old west" style long gun in which the rounds are cycled by working a lever below the grip. 

And now I'll use this opportunity to shamelessly plug my ad  :
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Obviously, magazine fed auto rifles are preferable.  With that being said, lever rifles may have an advantage in a very long-term global shtf after the jacketed ammo runs out.  No gas system = no problem running soft lead.  If you choose wisely, you can have a rifle and sidearm revolver that shoot the same ammo (.357 mag/.44 mag/.45-70/etc.)  I also suspect many auto-pistol are not going to perform well with a constant diet of non-jacketed ammo either.

[JohnyMac]

SK, is the ammo rim fire or center fire?

A agree with all that Currahee wrote. If I was to use a lever action rifle for a battle rifle I would only use one with a removable magazine like the Browning BLR http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=003B

With that said, a buddy of mine has a pump .308 Win rifle. Boy is he fast with that rifle. http://www.shootingtimes.com/2010/09/23/longgun_reviews_ga_remmodel760_200903/

[special-k]

SK, is the ammo rim fire or center fire?

It's center fire.  As far as I know, all 32-20 is center fire?

[JohnyMac]

Maybe today it is all CF but that rifle was originally released in RF. Then around 1890 they released a CF so they had a RF & a CF on the market.

The original RF cartridges were loaded with BP (Black Powder) and I think, so were the original CF cartridges.

Many years ago I was sharing the rifle range at the club with a retired gent firing a 32-20. Each time he checked out his three shot group he got more and more frustrated. Then he opened another plastic cartridge box of bullets and was shooting 1" groups dead center at 50 yards.

During a "cease fire" I started a conversation with the guy and asked about his 32-20 lever action rifle. I found out he had been trying to work up smokeless powder loads and was not successful as the loads kept putting shots all over the paper while his BP loads were dead on. Go figure?

Oh the joy of rolling your own. 
 

[Well-Prepared Witch]

Ah, I see!  Cool.  I have to admit I was surprised when I went gun shopping that I really prefer the revolvers.  With semi-automatics I'm always worried my grip will be too high and I'll rip my hand open.  I like that you can use the same ammo for revolvers and these guns.  If we ever need a new shotgun/rifle I may just look into them.  Thanks!

[JohnyMac]

Wellie,
my wife tried umpteen handguns until she settled on her secondary which was a revolver. So I bought her a .357 mag. Ruger SP 101 with a spurless hammer. The spurless hammer doesn't catch on anything as she draws it from her purse. She doesn't like the recoil of the .357 mag so she uses .38 special loads in it.

Shift ahead a couple of years: Spoon1 came over one afternoon while we were at the cabin to show us her new secondary and guess what? It was a .357 mag. Ruger SP 101 but with the hammer.

Crazy as it seems all of the gals I know that CC (Conceal carry) or just have a handgun for protection have a revolver. I need to ask them why.

I know for my wife not really being a gun nut like her husband is; it is the simplicity of operation and the smaller grips.

[Kentactic]

Ah, I see!  Cool.  I have to admit I was surprised when I went gun shopping that I really prefer the revolvers.  With semi-automatics I'm always worried my grip will be too high and I'll rip my hand open.  I like that you can use the same ammo for revolvers and these guns.  If we ever need a new shotgun/rifle I may just look into them.  Thanks!

Don't let fear drive your decision. The slides not ripping anything unless you have big hands and you shoot glocks. In that case they have grip additions that make a beaver tail to keep any hand safe.

For me when i feel the slide on a glock nipping my hand I know I've got a nice high, deep grip. Only once has a glock actually drawn blood on me.

[APX808]

Bad thing about revolvers is that their grip isn't as good as the one you can get with a pistol, where you have both of your hands surrounding all the pistol frame, so recoil control is even harder for women.

Also another thing I really dislike is the fact that the women want a gun "easy to use" where you "just pull the trigger", that is their reasoning for buying a revolver and just leaving it in the purse and never practicing with it.

Modern pistols are very reliable, with some practice you can operate them and solve malfunctions and will have better recoil control and a lot more ammo available to solve the problem without needing a reload.

[Old Guard Dog]

A big advantage of a lever gun is it can be the same caliber of your revolver, like .357, .44 mag or .45 LC.

[JohnyMac]

APX wrote:

Also another thing I really dislike is the fact that the women want a gun "easy to use" where you "just pull the trigger", that is their reasoning for buying a revolver and just leaving it in the purse and never practicing with it.

Apparently you ain't married. I am not touching that one with a 10 foot pole.   

[Well-Prepared Witch]

APX, while practice is important, if you're not into guns, I think it's a good idea to have an easy to use one just in case. I really like my .357 S&W revolver. It fits my hands pretty well and I like that it's essentially "point and shoot".

That said, every six months I make my husband run through how to handle/make sure every weapon in the house is unloaded. We just joined the local Izaak Walton League so we can use their range so I can actually have a chance to shoot. Practice IS important, even if you're like me and perfectly willing to let the gun sit in the safe 364 days out of 365.

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[Kentactic]

APX, while practice is important, if you're not into guns, I think it's a good idea to have an easy to use one just in case. I really like my .357 S&W revolver. It fits my hands pretty well and I like that it's essentially "point and shoot".

That said, every six months I make my husband run through how to handle/make sure every weapon in the house is unloaded. We just joined the local Izaak Walton League so we can use their range so I can actually have a chance to shoot. Practice IS important, even if you're like me and perfectly willing to let the gun sit in the safe 364 days out of 365.

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You can stick a glock in your purse and point and shoot it like any revolver. If it jams after 6 rounds then that's all a revolver had anyways. If your able to clear the malfunction or it dosent malfunction at all then your better off still. Plus you might hit the bad guy because you've got better purchase on the gun and you have a 5lb trigger not a 10lb trigger. The odds of a properly working autoloader malfunctioning in the real deal are low. Very low. I've shot many thousands of rounds through glocks. One handed, off handed, rapid fire etc..Still have yet to get one to malfunction in any way.

[USMC0331]

SHTF long gun continuum:

Military mag fed carbine
Shogun with slugs
Lever gun
Bolt action

Shotgun is fed easier and multipurpose with 00 and slugs. The lever gun is fun but SHTF shooting ain't about that.

[JohnyMac]

I agree with you DVC 100% with what you just wrote. With that written my Savage model 99 in .300 Savage is scary accurate at 300 yards. Maybe even farther just haven't tried past that distance.

Maybe I need to use my AR as a short range conflict rifle (100 yards and under) and my Model 99 to reach out and touch you rifle.

My brothers "reach out and touch you" rifle is a Remington 700 in 30/06. At the same 300 yards, he is scary accurate.

[USMC0331]

The AR (M4) is really THE SHTF carbine if you take into consideration that it spans the ranges (0-600 yards) with a dual scope setup.  Even with just a dot, MOM hits are easy out to 300 yards.

I started out with an AK and T1 as my SHTF gun because I fell prey to the "reliability" argument on the internet, but sold it and have not found a better SHTF setup then my current one which is a quality 16" barreled (Criterian .223 wylde) AR with a TA01 Acog and T1 offset with a Larue mount. 

The T1 rules at 100yards and in and for moving targets, while the 4x with BDC makes first COM shot hits out to 600 yards "plug and play" and 1MOA hits to 300yards no problem.  The ability to switch near to far with this setup is the icing on the cake.

One gun handles all my needs, makes it easier to decide which one to bring if I have to bugout.  There is a lot of coin tied up in that setup as are most ARs (even if you build from parts like I did) so unless you have the $$$, I always suggest an Remy 870 for a SHTF gun.  Slug hits to 100 yards with a bead are easy and with a california competion loader you can feed them pretty fast with practice.

Which brings up another point.  The Grandson was talking about wanting an AR15 the other day (which he can't afford, or won't prioritize I should say) but without training it really doesn't matter what he has.  A good shooter with a Win 94 is much more leathal than one that doesn't practice or know his gun even if it's a Noveski M4.

Run what ya brung, just make sure it's not your first race.

[Alex1992]

The AR (M4) is really THE SHTF carbine if you take into consideration that it spans the ranges (0-600 yards) with a dual scope setup.  Even with just a dot, MOM hits are easy out to 300 yards.

I started out with an AK and T1 as my SHTF gun because I fell prey to the "reliability" argument on the internet, but sold it and have not found a better SHTF setup then my current one which is a quality 16" barreled (Criterian .223 wylde) AR with a TA01 Acog and T1 offset with a Larue mount. 

The T1 rules at 100yards and in and for moving targets, while the 4x with BDC makes first COM shot hits out to 600 yards "plug and play" and 1MOA hits to 300yards no problem.  The ability to switch near to far with this setup is the icing on the cake.

One gun handles all my needs, makes it easier to decide which one to bring if I have to bugout.  There is a lot of coin tied up in that setup as are most ARs (even if you build from parts like I did) so unless you have the $$$, I always suggest an Remy 870 for a SHTF gun.  Slug hits to 100 yards with a bead are easy and with a california competion loader you can feed them pretty fast with practice.

Which brings up another point.  The Grandson was talking about wanting an AR15 the other day (which he can't afford, or won't prioritize I should say) but without training it really doesn't matter what he has.  A good shooter with a Win 94 is much more leathal than one that doesn't practice or know his gun even if it's a Noveski M4.

Run what ya brung, just make sure it's not your first race.

Here here DVC

[crudos]

Run what ya brung, just make sure it's not your first race.

Well said 

[JohnyMac]

The Ta01 is a bit outside my price range so I went with  Eotech XPS2 (4 years ago or so)
which I have been pretty happy with. I have taken it through some nasty shit and it is still working A-OK. My wife wants one for her AR now. 

With that said I have been thinking of a picking up a 3x magnifier to help my old eyes reach out and touch someone. Any thoughts DVC?

[new age patriot]

I love the idea of a rifle and handgun chambered in the same caliber. .357 mag revolver with a 7 or 8 round cylinder and a lever action?