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Author Topic: Lets talk logistics  (Read 10586 times)

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2012, 12:36:29 PM »
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WhiskeyJack wrote:
Durring the spacerace. the US spent over one million dollars to develop a pen that would write in zero gravity.
The USSR sent up a pencil. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best answer. and as far as equipping new people with no training.


IMO, simple is always better.  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Offline WhiskeyJack

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2012, 12:37:27 PM »
Quote from: EJR914 on January 24, 2012, 09:39:20 AM
I would think training for the AK would be more difficult, especially for women and children, then the AR.  Just an opinion.

I thought my wife how to reload the AR in one sitting, I'm not sure teaching her how to reload the AK would be quiet as simple, as there is one more step, and they have to rock the Mag forward, instead of just straight up and in.

Thoughts?


The AR system does have a better ergonimic desighn than the AK. But that is only one factor of many. when i think of putting a system into someones hands im thinking of the the toatal package. Maintenance, durability, the level of proficiancy the person is at. Yes.... the AR does have an eisier mag change. But the AR also has a more complex procedure for clearing jams and FTF. the AK is the easier system to clear as it only has one simple procedure to use(Rack the slide HARD). We could spend a week on this topic alone.
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Offline EJR914

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2012, 12:48:18 PM »
I've got no beef with the AK because I want one myself, I was just talking about RELOADING alone, which in a perfect world, is the only thing you really have to work with in a perfect hypothetical fire fight, because there is no worry of FTF, and you certainly are not going to have to worry about cleaning it, or clearing jams, or anything else in a perfect hypothetical fight.  In a real world, there are FTF, jams, and you do have to clean it after a firefight. 

As long as you have good mags, you clean the firearm and mags, and don't get mud or dust in the breach or mags, FTF, jams, and the like are not going to be as common as to make a huge difference in the firefight.  However, I think speed and quickness and ease of reload is an advantage.
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Offline WhiskeyJack

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2012, 12:58:34 PM »
Yeah i have no beef with the AR i want one myself. but i have allot of training on the system and I'm very comfortable with it. The comparisons of Ar's and AKs is still the old apples and oranges. In a perfect world with unlimited ammo and propper logistical support, and a solid training program. I would prolly advocate Ar's for all. But I live in AK land where the buses run late the water is contaminated and the unemployed can afford the money for a good AR. I will own a nice AR one of these days soon. But for the unwashed masses who don't know shit about guns. I say the AK is the right choice to get started with.  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Offline Reaver

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2012, 01:18:22 PM »
Quote from: EJR914 on January 24, 2012, 12:48:18 PM
I've got no beef with the AK because I want one myself, I was just talking about RELOADING alone, which in a perfect world, is the only thing you really have to work with in a perfect hypothetical fire fight, because there is no worry of FTF, and you certainly are not going to have to worry about cleaning it, or clearing jams, or anything else in a perfect hypothetical fight.  In a real world, there are FTF, jams, and you do have to clean it after a firefight. 

As long as you have good mags, you clean the firearm and mags, and don't get mud or dust in the breach or mags, FTF, jams, and the like are not going to be as common as to make a huge difference in the firefight.  However, I think speed and quickness and ease of reload is an advantage.


I think your speaking out of biased opinion towards your AR and Ignorance to the AK
What your speaking of is a weak training regime. Know your equipment well enough and ACTUALLY train with it & you might be surprised at the results.

Reloading drills AK vs AR15's

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Offline EJR914

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2012, 01:28:28 PM »
Quote from: Reaver on January 24, 2012, 01:18:22 PM
Quote from: EJR914 on January 24, 2012, 12:48:18 PM
I've got no beef with the AK because I want one myself, I was just talking about RELOADING alone, which in a perfect world, is the only thing you really have to work with in a perfect hypothetical fire fight, because there is no worry of FTF, and you certainly are not going to have to worry about cleaning it, or clearing jams, or anything else in a perfect hypothetical fight.  In a real world, there are FTF, jams, and you do have to clean it after a firefight. 

As long as you have good mags, you clean the firearm and mags, and don't get mud or dust in the breach or mags, FTF, jams, and the like are not going to be as common as to make a huge difference in the firefight.  However, I think speed and quickness and ease of reload is an advantage.


I think your speaking out of biased opinion towards your AR and Ignorance to the AK
What your speaking of is a weak training regime. Know your equipment well enough and ACTUALLY train with it & you might be surprised at the results.

Reloading drills AK vs AR15's


What the fuck was that video?  You show me some fucking retard with an AR and that is somehow supposed to be proof?  LOL  Me speaking of ignorance and bias?  LOL I think its the other way around.  I think you're speaking of ignorance and bias. 

Its pretty much a known fact that the AR is easier to reload than the AK, to act an differently is just arrogance.

That's just like me saying that the AR is more reliable than the AK, I would know I was lying and that its a bunch of bullshit.

Also, I have to say, NICE JOB RETAINING MAGAZINES!  *eyeroll*
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 01:30:53 PM by EJR914 »
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Offline WhiskeyJack

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2012, 01:32:08 PM »
That's as good a example of familiarity with the system as any. The one AK guys was faster than anyone else on the line. his technique was quick and simple. the AR guys were fumbling a little. I just don't think they spend as much time with their weapons.
I once had a drill seargent say to us."if you want to be proficient you must handle your weapon more than your cock"
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Offline EJR914

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2012, 01:32:34 PM »
Quote from: AllShallPerishJ on January 24, 2012, 01:28:39 PM
Red Jacket just built the worlds FIRST piston driven AR with the reliability and track proven toughness of the AK platform!  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at :))

Quote
The KMP-MkII Monolithic piston driven AR is our newest addition to the Red Jacket line up! The Milled Mono-lithic quad railed, mid-length upper captures and extends past the gas block, nothing like it is available on the market! The upper and lower is machined from a full 7075 billet, rounded out with a 1:7 Twist rate Chrome lined Heavy barrel (MOA or better guaranteed), with  your choice of barrel length (NFA LAWS apply). We found the Mega Machine modified Adams Arms Piston kit is the best available and is utilized in our entire piston AR builds! One Magpul P-mag included, Magpul UBR as standard, optional Magpul CTR. Suppressor ready with our RJF suppressor flash hider and 3 way adjustable gas system including a full cut off for the ultimate in stealth. As always the KMP is fully lifetime warranted! MBUS included.
 

http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=44&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6

 [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at


What a bunch of bullshit, who in the hell is stupid enough to read this crap and actually believe it.  Wow, the ignorance when it comes to firearms is just astonishing sometimes.

Did you see the fucking price tag?!?!?!  Price per Unit (piece): $2,285.00   Geeze, what a great deal!   ::)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 01:34:59 PM by EJR914 »
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Offline Reaver

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2012, 01:43:30 PM »
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What the fuck was that video?  You show me some fucking retard with an AR and that is somehow supposed to be proof?  LOL  Me speaking of ignorance and bias?  LOL I think its the other way around.  I think you're speaking of ignorance and bias. 

Its pretty much a known fact that the AR is easier to reload than the AK, to act an differently is just arrogance.

That's just like me saying that the AR is more reliable than the AK, I would know I was lying and that its a bunch of bullshit.

Also, I have to say, NICE JOB RETAINING MAGAZINES!  *eyeroll* 

What the fuck are you talking about arrogance... Bitch I run an AK & I guaranttee I could run you into the ground with it. Matter of fact I could probably run you into the ground with your own rifle.
Just because you can't figure out how to reload an AK doesn't mean anyone else cannot.
What you keep speaking of IS A TRAINING ISSUE  there is nothing else to it.
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Offline WhiskeyJack

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2012, 01:50:01 PM »
And now we have missed the point. Its a good topic guys lets not shit all over it.  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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Offline EJR914

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2012, 01:52:32 PM »
Quote from: Reaver on January 24, 2012, 01:43:30 PM
Quote
What the fuck was that video?  You show me some fucking retard with an AR and that is somehow supposed to be proof?  LOL  Me speaking of ignorance and bias?  LOL I think its the other way around.  I think you're speaking of ignorance and bias. 

Its pretty much a known fact that the AR is easier to reload than the AK, to act an differently is just arrogance.

That's just like me saying that the AR is more reliable than the AK, I would know I was lying and that its a bunch of bullshit.

Also, I have to say, NICE JOB RETAINING MAGAZINES!  *eyeroll* 

What the fuck are you talking about arrogance... Bitch I run an AK & I guaranttee I could run you into the ground with it. Matter of fact I could probably run you into the ground with your own rifle.
Just because you can't figure out how to reload an AK doesn't mean anyone else cannot.
What you keep speaking of IS A TRAINING ISSUE  there is nothing else to it.

That's what I've been saying the whole time, its harder to reload, ie train someone from the beginning   ::)

Maybe actually try reading what I write sometime.

No need to start all the dick measuring, Reaver, don't worry, I'm sure you win.   ::)
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Offline Reaver

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2012, 01:52:44 PM »
Quote from: WhiskeyJack on January 24, 2012, 01:50:01 PM
And now we have missed the point. Its a good topic guys lets not shit all over it.  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at


Yeah, your right Whiskey Jack.  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

EJR I'm sorry for snapping. How bout we both go for a run and forget about it?
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Offline Reaver

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2012, 01:54:22 PM »
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No need to start all the dick measuring, Reaver, don't worry, I'm sure you win.
I'm primarily German...
why did we start two world wars? Because the Chinese beat us on dick size.
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Offline EJR914

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2012, 01:59:28 PM »
Quote from: Reaver on January 24, 2012, 01:52:44 PM
EJR I'm sorry for snapping. How bout we both go for a run and forget about it?

I say we just go find a hot sauna somewhere and hug it out...   :o
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Offline WhiskeyJack

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2012, 02:02:41 PM »
Oh damn it actually got worse..... LOL.
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Offline EJR914

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2012, 02:04:01 PM »
Quote from: WhiskeyJack on January 24, 2012, 02:02:41 PM
Oh damn it actually got worse..... LOL.

Bwhahaha!
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Offline RS762

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2012, 02:30:27 PM »
look at you guys go at it, it's hilarious.
I have an AR and an AK and know how to use them both.... :))
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Offline EJR914

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2012, 02:34:36 PM »
Quote from: RS762 on January 24, 2012, 02:30:27 PM
look at you guys go at it, it's hilarious.
I have an AR and an AK and know how to use them both.... :))

One day I'll have both, and I'll train with both.  When the SHTF, Wild Turkey and I are going to operate AKs, we'll only use M4's as a backup if somehow all the AKs go down, which isn't likely.

Also, my wife will have the M4, she likes the M4 for a few reasons.
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Offline sledge

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2012, 03:34:13 PM »
Oh man, I missed all of that.  I knew when she said I should do the carpets today I would miss out on something good.   >:(

I, for one, will never be convinced that an AK is faster to reload than an AR.  (Granted you can find guys that are slower than a snail at reloading both.)  If for no other reason than you have to rock the mag which takes another fraction of a second.  Another reason is that the AK isn't as ergonomic or balanced as the AR.  Another is due to the size and weight differences of the mags themselves

The point has already been made that drilling with either platform will seriously improve your ability to speed reload either one dramatically.

Oh, note to self:  Stay the hell out of sauna's.    :) 

 
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Offline EJR914

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2012, 05:22:09 PM »
Quote from: sledge on January 24, 2012, 03:34:13 PM
Oh, note to self:  Stay the hell out of sauna's.    :) 

Ohh come on, they're a great place to get in there and hug it out with a good snuggle cuddle...   ;D
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goodnightChesty1775

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2012, 05:42:09 PM »
Quote from: AllShallPerishJ on January 24, 2012, 01:28:39 PM
Red Jacket just built the worlds FIRST piston driven AR with the reliability and track proven toughness of the AK platform!  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at :))

Quote
The KMP-MkII Monolithic piston driven AR is our newest addition to the Red Jacket line up! The Milled Mono-lithic quad railed, mid-length upper captures and extends past the gas block, nothing like it is available on the market! The upper and lower is machined from a full 7075 billet, rounded out with a 1:7 Twist rate Chrome lined Heavy barrel (MOA or better guaranteed), with  your choice of barrel length (NFA LAWS apply). We found the Mega Machine modified Adams Arms Piston kit is the best available and is utilized in our entire piston AR builds! One Magpul P-mag included, Magpul UBR as standard, optional Magpul CTR. Suppressor ready with our RJF suppressor flash hider and 3 way adjustable gas system including a full cut off for the ultimate in stealth. As always the KMP is fully lifetime warranted! MBUS included.
 

http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=44&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6

 [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at


red jacket is fucking ridiculous, all they do is build things that we could and act like its all ground breaking...not to mention that show is gay as fuck.
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Offline mountainredneck2051

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2012, 06:28:55 PM »
i really dont get the 12year old in africa running ak's argument

they dont have access to ar15's...........
and if we want to go there wouldn't an ar be a better weapon for them?
lighter
less kick
adjustable stock length for people if different sizes....

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Offline Reaver

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2012, 06:37:34 PM »
Quote from: mountainredneck2051 on January 24, 2012, 06:28:55 PM
i really dont get the 12year old in africa running ak's argument

they dont have access to ar15's...........
and if we want to go there wouldn't an ar be a better weapon for them?
lighter
less kick
adjustable stock length for people if different sizes....

The point is simplicity is ideal for bitches that can't read.
Or just like simplicity because it doesn't break
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Offline gapatriot

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2012, 06:52:29 PM »
What about a saiga in .223 with a mag adapter to use ar mags. Thats win on both sides bitches. sorry couldnt help to make a smart ass remark.
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goodnightChesty1775

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Re: Lets talk logistics
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2012, 06:56:47 PM »
i dont think it gets simpler than an AK IMO...
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