Let's see your trainers

[Currahee]

Who has 22LR versions of your go-to rifles?  I farted around with the conversion kits but now I have a Smith M&P 22.



It's not an exactl clone of my primary but it handles similarly - I made sure the VFG and sling mounted the same way (so it carries and holds the same way)

[JohnyMac]

Currahee,
1) I love your camo schemes on your rifles!
2) I rock more with my .22LR conversion dropped into my AR then I do with my 556 bolt in. The
    only time I have had a failure is with old .22 ammo.
3) The .22 AR conversion or a completely new .22LR upper is an awesome way to train. Mussel
    memory is there but at a minimal cost. 

[thatGuy]

Whats the tape on your mags for Currahee?

[Reaver]

I don't really believe in this conversion trainer stuff.

Even more so if your using another rifle to do so.  Yeah, its the same platform but its not the same RIFLE
Grip is different, trigger is different, sites are different, weight is different, rail system is different.
That's just on yours, someone else may have more alike or even less alike.

The .22 Conversion might be ok, but then like I said the weight isn't the same nor recoil.
( Don't give me that 223/5.56 doesn't have recoil crap it does have some more so than a .22LR  )

And don't get me wrong bro, I'm not dissing your system's here or the way you do things. I'm just saying it doesn't work FOR ME  If it works for you then awesome keep it up. What ever keeps you putting rounds down range to keep you trained up to protect your family.
I'm just saying it doesn't work for me.

[Currahee]

I look at the 22 as primarily for training tactics, and a cheap way of practicing the fundamentals of shooting.  With a 22 you can move and shoot at angles, shoot steel closer all at a much lower cost.  It certainly doesn't replace shooting 5.56, its a supplement too it.  I try to make sure the 22AR handles similarly to my primary but I'm not looking for an exact match... I don't want a dot on it simply because it makes me practice with irons.

Example-

This is a good drill for a 22

Cover Drill (Rifle)

This is a drill where shooting a 22 wouldn't be helpful

5 5 5 drill

[WhiteWolf]

Could do the same thing with a higher end airsoft rifle. Actually more.

[sledge]

I think of the .22 as a round that can be used for more than just training.  Although, it does make for training on the cheap.  Apparently, I'm not the only one who thinks this way as denoted by a recent article which I'll quote and then provide a link.

A 40 grain bullet making around 880 to 900 feet per second (FPS), or more from a 2" barrel (and there are several excellent choices available) will consistently produce penetration depths of twelve to fourteen+ inches in tissue after passing through 4 layers of denim.

According to the FBI Ballistic Test Protocol, the performance standards are simple. A handgun bullet must consistently penetrate a minimum of 12 inches of tissue in order to reliably penetrate/strike/damage vital organs within a human target, regardless of the angle of impact or intervening obstacles such as arms, clothing, etc. More than twelve inches is even better, and multiple wound channels will always beat a single wound channel.

Let's put it all in perspective: A triple tap to center mass with a proper (40 grain) .22 caliber bullet would be the equivalent of being run through to the hilt 3 times in rapid succession with a 14 inch screwdriver, or taking three quick bolts from a powerful crossbow. Think about that for a minute. These are, at the very least, debilitating, and often, life ending injuries.

.22 Handguns and Other Options For Self Defense, by R.F.D.
http://survivalblog.com/2012/02/22-handguns-and-other-options-for-self-defense-by-rfd.html

[EJR914]

Its always about shot placement anyway.  .22 will kill you, just ask RFK.  You get a good hit in the "T" or the brain, or brain stem, you're going down.

Not to mention there are major arteries that can be hit and you can bleed out fairly quickly. 

Sure there probably isn't a huge amount of knock down power, but if you can really shoot and hit the target where you aim, and also, know where to aim, then a .22 is fine. 

I don't carry a .22 for self-defense, but if its all I had, I would.

[Currahee]

Whats the tape on your mags for Currahee?

Better grip

[mountainredneck2051]

Its always about shot placement anyway.  .22 will kill you, just ask RFK.  You get a good hit in the "T" or the brain, or brain stem, you're going down.

i had a cousin put a 22 to her fathers head and pull the trigger, then put the gun to her head and pull the trigger

both took execution shots to the head
he lived, she died  thats 50% kill rate with executions

now lets say your putting rounds in a guy center mass and he's doing meth or some shit
i dont think its gonna stop him

[sledge]

Its always about shot placement anyway.  .22 will kill you, just ask RFK.  You get a good hit in the "T" or the brain, or brain stem, you're going down.

i had a cousin put a 22 to her fathers head and pull the trigger, then put the gun to her head and pull the trigger

both took execution shots to the head
he lived, she died  thats 50% kill rate with executions

now lets say your putting rounds in a guy center mass and he's doing meth or some shit
i dont think its gonna stop him

I think the point the article was making was that with a 22, multi taps are easy, destructive, and should be considered a requirement.   Sorry about your cousin Mountain.

[EJR914]

Its always about shot placement anyway.  .22 will kill you, just ask RFK.  You get a good hit in the "T" or the brain, or brain stem, you're going down.

i had a cousin put a 22 to her fathers head and pull the trigger, then put the gun to her head and pull the trigger

both took execution shots to the head
he lived, she died  thats 50% kill rate with executions

now lets say your putting rounds in a guy center mass and he's doing meth or some shit
i dont think its gonna stop him

Still shot placement and the way the bullet channel as it passes through the brain, look at the Gifford lady. 

You hit the brain stem with anything, even a tiny little .22, and they're dead.  You can also take a tiny ice pick, screwdriver or anything, and jam it in the brain stem and move it around, and death is sure to follow.

You have to know your anatomy if you're going to kill someone with something small, be it a stabbing weapon or .22. 

Brute force will of course work better, such as a huge slashing or stabbing weapon or a large caliber small arm. 

Large caliber small arms are still no guarantee to stop or kill a man in his tracks.  You still have to hit the right areas.

Study your anatomy charts.

[WhiteWolf]

Somehow, this topic makes he glad I went with the 25 round mag instead of 10 for my little hk .22lr lol.

[Currahee]

This thread went all askew

[Reaver]

This thread went all askew

Yeah people started talking about how effective .22 is and not how effective training weapons in .22 are.
Srry bro.

 [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

[sledge]

This thread went all askew

That kind of depends on what someone is training with and what they will use as a defense weapon.  For instance in our group most of the women will be using 22's.  One a shotgun and one an AK.

[EJR914]

To get back on track, I'd love to save up the money and get a .22 training kit for my M4 and 5 mags for training.  I think its a great idea.  Makes sense to me.  I'd shoot a lot more probably, and train a lot more as well.   [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[Deathstyle]

The 5.45 Advantage

[RS762]

theroadwarri0r has a good channel. I liked his "refueling on the run" video.

When someone burned down the washington county militia's headquarters (fayetteville, Ar) he had a video where he was picking through the remains of the building and talking about it, he has since removed the video but i don't know why.

[Deathstyle]

Yea R0adWarri0r is a cool guy. He is going overseas for most of 2012 and he did video about his bugout bag in case he has to make his way back home like the soilder in "SURVIVORS".

He did point out in the comments of this video that he prefers using a 5.45 conversion over a .22 because the 5.45 rounds is much more similar to the 5.56 and yet is still cost effective for training.

[tominphx]

I have a drop in conversion for my AR. I need to buy some extra mags and something to help load them though.

Has anyone with a conversion ever had issues with fouling in the barrel? I've heard of problems due to lead fouling in the barrel, some people even said it blew up their rifle.

There's also the POI shift and zero issues shooting further distances, but I think they are great to have, yes it makes things like a 1-5 or a half and half drill too easy, and basically pointless for that, but if you want to shoot 1 inch dots at 15 yards or something, it is pretty much the same.

FWIW I just generally train with steel cased ammo in my ARs and glocks, it's almost as cheap as 5.45, although it is going back up, it's around $10 a k more than the last time I ordered some. 

[Currahee]

with a 22 you can shoot a lot cheaper steel on a lot shorter range.  Again the 22 trainer (to me) is not about practicing shooting my AR, I still do that, but about handling the AR while moving around barriers etc. 

I do like the idea of an upper in 5.45