?It?s about the PERCEPTION of not losing.? - John Mosby Nous Defions

[EJR914]

This is one epic rant from John Mosby about the importance of PERCEPTION.  Perception, after all, is reality.  You actually could be winning a war, but if the perception is that you are losing, then the population will side with whoever they PERCEIVE as winning.

The issue isn?t with body armor. The reality is, body armor DOES save lives. All the 4GW gurus want to poo-poo wearing body armor, claiming it?s too heavy and restricts mobility, but it?s bullshit.

The problem is two-fold:

1) Commanders are making their Joes wear the ENTIRE fucking IOTV, instead of stripped down front and back plates.

2) We?ve got Joe so reliant on tech fixes that he doesn?t know how to be a light infantryman, a critical set of skills for effective UW warfare, whether a G or counter-G.

I can run my plate carrier, and warbelt, with a 100-0z Camelback, and TWICE the doctrinal basic load of ammunition, PLUS a sidearm and four mags for it, and still be running around 25% of my stripped body weight. If we?d quit insisting that light platoons need to carry this computer and that computer, and these batteries, and those batteries, and consolidate our electronics into a smaller, unitized piece of equipment (we KNOW you can put two-way commo and a GPS into one small package, smaller than a MBITR, so why the fuck aren?t we?), and focus on getting the basic load of sustainment equipment a guy is carrying into backpacker-weight loads, then he?s still got room/weight for more ammunition, and his approach march load can still be less than 40% of stripped body weight (Cassandra, the studies insist that 30% is the cutoff for FIGHTING load. Approach march loads can go to 40-45%, including the fighting load weight). Make contact, dump the approach march load with a security element, and run up the fucking hill.

Which of course, brings us to the final issue we?re having in the Stan specifically?.I?m a huge advocate of PT, obviously, but, we need to be focusing on more functional fitness than a goddamned two-mile run, five-mile run, and push-up endurance. When the Ranger, Athlete-Warrior program gets adopted across the board by light infantry, this ?I can?t carry my fighting load? bullshit will go away.

Grenadier1: as much as it pains me, heartedly, to admit, you?re wrong. Winning in an UW environment has exactly fuck-all to do with taking and holding ground, and counter-insurgency has little to do with killing more of them than they kill of you (although that?s certainly the preferable math solution!). The ONLY thing that matter is success in the UW spectrum is PERCEPTION. When the locals (or the American public) sees MH47s and MH60s blown out of the sky, killing everyone aboard, by a guy in a blanket, using a $200 rocket, the perception is, they?re winning, and that we can?t stop them. The muj retreat into the mountains and hide out, and US forces drive up as far as the trucks will go, pile out, walk around for a few hours, and get their asses back to the trucks. That?s not winning the war of perception. That makes you look ineffective and inept, and that means the locals believe the muj are winning. People in a war zone?s first priority is the safety of their families. They?re going to side with the side that they perceive is winning, regardless of body counts and terrain being held.

Sure, we hold the cities of Afghanistan.

So what?

The Gs can come into town anytime, dump a couple mortars, or run a little raid, blow some shit up, or hit a ANA outpost, then disappear back into the mountains. We ?can?t? get to them, because that would require cutting the ties to the rear with air support and re-supply. God forbid a light infantryman ever have to actually rely on his own tactical expertise to win a fight, or have to live out of his rucksack! JSOC can hit some HVTs villa in the middle of the night, and capture the bankroller or web designer for the muj, but who gives a shit? The fighters are up in the mountains, hanging out, smoking hash, and cornholing each other while they decide when they should go fuck with the Americans some more?..

No, we didn?t win Somalia (hell, we didn?t accomplish ANY of our goals in Somalia?.the people were still starving, and Aidid died in country?.). We sort of, kind of, after a fashion succeeded in Bosnia?.except that we?re STILL keeping them from wasting each other, 20 years on).

We sure as shit didn?t succeed in Iraq, .gov crowing to the contrary. We?ve lost our influence in Eqypt, are losing it in Syria?.we?re not going to re-win Afghanistan (the reality is, we WON in Afghanistan, in the first 3 months. Unfortunately, Tommy Franks had to get the Big Green footprint on the ground, so that all those little lieutenants and captains would get CIBs to enhance their promotability later, and Big Army doesn?t know how to successfully prosecute a counter-insurgency, despite Petraues writing that charming new COIN manual (that?s worth fuck all).

There?s a LOT of ways that perception plays a part in the heating up hostilities here, but I?m working on that article, so I?ll quit now.

ND,
JM

http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/mosby-on-lind/

I certainly didn?t think an ad hoc comment posted on an article would end up generating that kind of a response?.Even from the conventional force/counter-insurgent standpoint, ?holding ground? is completely irrelevant. The G just finds somewhere else to use as his secure base area, and starts conducting raids and ambushes on the new target area you provided him by ?holding? the ground. Really, this is one of the major factors that fucked US forces in Vietnam. Conventional force officers wanted real estate to plant the flag on. UW just doesn?t work that way. Especially in relation to urban-centric UW, the conventional force doesn?t actually have to level the neighborhood to control the perception of success. Posting an Abrams on each street corner, and having Strykers and MRAPs rolling down the street can project the same image. OTOH, if the Gs can smoke some dismounts occasionally, and maybe get lucky and toast a APC or tank, then the perception victory goes back to them (i.e. ?Oh, those guys can?t stop the G, even with tanks and armor. They?ll never win! We better throw in the resistance!?). It?s not about holding ground. It?s not even about winning for the G. It?s about the perception of not losing.

?It?s about the perception of not losing.? At the risk of being an arrogant ass and quoting myself, as I just re-read this, I had the epiphany that this sentence may just be the most profound statement on UW that I?ve made since I started Nous Defions!

MINDSET!  Its always about mindset and perception!  Perception is a powerful tool. 

Read that again:  ?It?s about the perception of not losing.?

[Kentactic]

FUCK a 30% of my body weight load out... i dont care if i just won the ninja warrior challenge im never carrying that much fuckin junk. As far as perception goes im not sure it has much to do with preppers. Im not going to try and win the hearts of my country with perception in this huge war im fighting. If im dealing with my immediate area i can speak individually to everyone to solve my problems. But more then likely i wont be in such a fight and so body count means less threats to me.

[EJR914]

Dude, you have no idea how much of an impact this could have on prepping and a Resilient Community.  It is certainly applicable on the Communal scale as it is on the National scale.  It matters.

Remember, everything is Local, Local, Local, even politics.  Everything starts at the LOCAL level. 

[Kentactic]

Dude, you have no idea how much of an impact this could have on prepping and a Resilient Community.  It is certainly applicable on the Communal scale as it is on the National scale.  It matters.

Remember, everything is Local, Local, Local, even politics.  Everything starts at the LOCAL level.

Who are these community people that live down the street and also all prepped and dont just wanna kill you for your food? I just dont see this happening. Its you and your immediate group vs. the world in all but very rare scenarios.

[EJR914]

Who are these community people that live down the street and also all prepped and dont just wanna kill you for your food? I just dont see this happening. Its you and your immediate group vs. the world in all but very rare scenarios.

GAP and I have been trying to tell all of you that you cannot survive on your own.  You must find a way, I don't care if its setting up a local home gardening club or having a flea market where people sell their own manufactured goods or just whatever, but you NEED to start to get out there and MEET the people in your community, and try and get as many people to wake up, so that when the bad times come, you're not fighting them off, and you've already helped as many as you can to be SELF-Sufficient with food, water, supply lines, home made goods for barter, and the huge list of other good things that come with a Resilient Community that YOU help build.

If you don't think that is possible where you live, then GTFO right now, bro.

You're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution.  Be part of the solution.  Help those around you who want to do something, help open eyes, just get out there and help people learn something, even if its just how to grow your own food in your back yard so when SHTF they are not coming to your house, to beg or kill you for food and supplies.  Teach them how to prep if they will listen.

This might just be the most important thing that you can do to help make sure you survive SHTF. 

Are there going to be ones you cannot reach?  Of course!  But there are always more people out there.  We all have struck out a bunch, but we have also grown a pretty fucking KICKASS little community here in Georgia and I think you should at least try to do the same.  It is essential for your survival if SHTF, bro.

[Kentactic]

Who are these community people that live down the street and also all prepped and dont just wanna kill you for your food? I just dont see this happening. Its you and your immediate group vs. the world in all but very rare scenarios.

GAP and I have been trying to tell all of you that you cannot survive on your own.  You must find a way, I don't care if its setting up a local home gardening club or having a flea market where people sell their own manufactured goods or just whatever, but you NEED to start to get out there and MEET the people in your community, and try and get as many people to wake up, so that when the bad times come, you're not fighting them off, and you've already helped as many as you can to be SELF-Sufficient with food, water, supply lines, home made goods for barter, and the huge list of other good things that come with a Resilient Community that YOU help build.

If you don't think that is possible where you live, then GTFO right now, bro.

You're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution.  Be part of the solution.  Help those around you who want to do something, help open eyes, just get out there and help people learn something, even if its just how to grow your own food in your back yard so when SHTF they are not coming to your house, to beg or kill you for food and supplies.  Teach them how to prep if they will listen.

This might just be the most important thing that you can do to help make sure you survive SHTF. 

Are there going to be ones you cannot reach?  Of course!  But there are always more people out there.  We all have struck out a bunch, but we have also grown a pretty fucking KICKASS little community here in Georgia and I think you should at least try to do the same.  It is essential for your survival if SHTF, bro.

Survival in the time of months before things straighten up, i have a chance to survive. If were talking years... hopefully a bullet catches me in the head early on to make it easy. Id rather not live as an old school self sufficient person. In all reality most in this country myself included couldnt if we even wanted to and had all the decades of hands on knowledge required to do it. Your modern day American lacks the mental and physical ability to do it. Heck the damn nat geo and discovery channels cant even find a truely self sufficient group in this entire damn country to make a show about... the closest thing they can find is people that live in log cabins that chop their own wood. They still require gas powered equipment to survive. Even those people would be dead in short order without modern equipment and they were raised doing this crap for generations. Its a fantasy i know better then to think i will ever be capable of living.

I suggest some of us really be honest with ourselves about what we think our plans may be. This is all just my opinion of course.

[Colombo]

This might be one of the top ten subjects on this board. I also believe both views are correct in that some areas will just cease to be viable for any kind of civilization or rule of law if we see a total breakdown. However, just because the fed gov ceases to be a viable force or even influence doesn't mean there will be instant loss of local and even in some cases state efforts. I fall into the save the community camp and have actually picked the location of my home due to such considerations. The light density (but not too light) and surrounding farming community are both a buffer and a source of individuals who will make do with what is at hand not to mention the resources of old equipment, ease of water procurement and natural food sources as part of the buffer against all but the most organized and supplied forces. All that doesn't change the fact that possibly 80% of the population will need help in the form of instruction and some resources that can be reconfigured or modified to provide necessities. I am under no illusions that there will be problem individuals looking to take advantage or the easy way out but with careful help an example of working thru problems will save many and those many will be stronger than the small would be warlords.

Something of a priority for all concerned with this would be a list and recon of actually useful resources as well as careful thought beforehand as to the best use of those very things. Just a few examples of some of the things I have made mental notes of and considered in my area.

1. ALL local housing has shallow water wells which although they are electric they are only 10'-60' which makes then suitable for simple pvc hand pumps. I personally have large stocks of pvc pipe picked up for free from jobsites I worked on over the years, probably enough for 20 homes, the farming in the area makes the total amount available more than sufficient.

2 Food, this is the big one for most. The area I'm in has a limited supply of game obviously but due to the wooded nature of the area (hogs, squirels, rabbits, possum, snake, coons, palmettos, grapes, acorns, berries...) as well as large number of canals and creeks(fish, cattails, gators, birds, turtles) people adapt and even strange sources of food will give time for survival then transition, organization and rebuilding.

3 Shelter. This is both a problem and an advantage in that most houses in the area have had or already have wheels on them and are "parked" within 40' of a drainfield/holding tank septic system that requires electricity to run until converted to gravity systems (a bit of work but not impossible) also in the area is a small road dept rich in both equipment and supplies as well as a work shop that must be protected from scavagers but is also centered pretty well in the neighborhood making security easier if acted on immediately. The housing crises as well as the economy have left a number of unoccupied foreclosures conveniently marked with the banks signs as well.

4 Security. Pain in the ass for some of the outlying houses as well as some of the farms but doable with some organization and motivation that would no doubt have a fire lit under its ass after a few incidents.

As for the uw aspect I suspect the type of community, its organization, resources as well as the civilians there will determine the length of time any threats remain or even if they approach. Looters and mobs die fast in the face of organized resistance which would be followed by active hunting in any community with decent cohesion and strength. With actual intelligence of an approaching organized threat an attack, ambush and or attrition effort against threats is not only possible but probable with solid community leaders.  I suspect in an uncontrolled collapse the central gov would focus on its perceived "most valuable" resources i.e. cities, hubs, infrastructure, image, as well as controlling politicians favorites to the point of losing the war by keeping the non producing non viable symbols and sources of their power under control, two assholes and Stalingrad come to mind. Home ground and familiarity with it is in my opinion seriously under rated. An attacking force trying to move thru unfamiliar territory is dangerously threatened by motivated locals who know the alleys, dirt roads, paths, swales etc with commanding fields of fire and ambush (with difficult approaches) as well as the route to the next chosen point of contact, mogadishu pops to mind here.

Looking forward to more thoughts and ideas on this broad subject guys, please keep them coming.

[EJR914]

Survival in the time of months before things straighten up, i have a chance to survive. If were talking years... hopefully a bullet catches me in the head early on to make it easy. Id rather not live as an old school self sufficient person. In all reality most in this country myself included couldnt if we even wanted to and had all the decades of hands on knowledge required to do it. Your modern day American lacks the mental and physical ability to do it. Heck the damn nat geo and discovery channels cant even find a truely self sufficient group in this entire damn country to make a show about... the closest thing they can find is people that live in log cabins that chop their own wood. They still require gas powered equipment to survive. Even those people would be dead in short order without modern equipment and they were raised doing this crap for generations. Its a fantasy i know better then to think i will ever be capable of living.

I suggest some of us really be honest with ourselves about what we think our plans may be. This is all just my opinion of course.

Huh?  Dude, it would be INCREDIBLY easy for a community, say 400 to 500 people, of peppers, to survive in perpetuity, for generations and generations.  I literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Humans survived on this planet for thousands of years living in tribes, they birthed babies on the trail, and just kept right on moving.  All you need to have is animals, whether wild or stock, vegetables, and seeds to plant the next year, you need a good source of the cleanest water you can find, and you need a way to MANUFACTURE firearms from metal, fix the firearms you have, and you need the ability to create the ammo and powder, and then beyond that, when that runs out and it will, then you've other good weapons such as bows and arrows and spears and plenty of other weapons where you use wood, and a knotched arrow, and you throw it like a baseball, and you can kill HUGE game with one of those, I've seen it done.

I'm going to be honest, you need to get optimistic man, you can survive anything.  Kinda sounding defeatist there for a minute bro.  That is kind of how a lazy sheeple would think.  I say that will all the love I've got man.  I care about you Ken, and I want you to be able to survive this shit.

Go get the primitive training right now, training that doesn't have to do with ANY modern equipment, you only use the stuff that is right around you in nature to survive.  Go get the training right now.  And then, start sharing that training with people in your community, and build up as many others in your community as much as possible right now, before the bad times.  You will be glad you did, and you all can survive for a long while until we can get everything straightened back out. 

Don't just give up like that bro.  If its your location, get out man.  Find a place out west, find a prepper community, they are already setting up ALL over the country.  We just found a HUGE prepper Community up in North Carolina.

Hundreds of preppers, doctors, lawyers, nurses, engineers, Ect Ect Ect have all about 10's of thousands of acres up there touching each others, and they make it out to be 500 people total. 

It can be a reality dude, you just have to go out there and take it.  If you want to survive you can not be lazy about it.  I just want you to survive, Ken, and you seem like a good dude.  Hang in there. 

[Kentactic]

EJR but even if you CAN survive in this way for a long time... do you want to? My point is i dont beleive that i do. Have you lived under these conditions for any length of time to have a solid foundation for your opinion? I realise that all you need is food and water and a LOT of luck of health and you can survive... I dont mean to take advantage of knowing your situation as an attack but how horrible will it be if your own community carries you off into the woods because your back pain has gotten beyond any help and they must put you out of your misery? This could happen to anyone just from a relatively non life threatening injury by modern days standards. A tooth infection could kill you. Severe Diarrea could kill you. Its just not a life MOST Americans can mentally handle. There will likely be random killings and sabotage when people finally snap in a community like that. Our minds cant deal with a life that rough with no hope of change any time soon.

All im saying is take a step back and think about if you truely think its possible for you. I realise you might have other modivations and burdens that i dont as you have a family and perhaps a swift death isnt something you can hope for. If i was in a better location and situation id probably prep for a much longer term scenario. But that just means id prep more modern supplies. More canned refried beans, more TP, more ammo, more everything. I want to make it clear that choosing not to live a fantasy of the little house on the prairie does NOT make me a sheeple. I dont really appreciate that comparison. If anything im less of a sheeple because im MORE aware of MY reality(not saying its yours). If you feel that yours varies thats fine. I truely wish the best for you EJR and we couldnt ask for a better candidate of a smart, goodwilled, moral person then yourself to start things over for us.

[NOLA556]

Who are these community people that live down the street and also all prepped and dont just wanna kill you for your food? I just dont see this happening. Its you and your immediate group vs. the world in all but very rare scenarios.

GAP and I have been trying to tell all of you that you cannot survive on your own.  You must find a way, I don't care if its setting up a local home gardening club or having a flea market where people sell their own manufactured goods or just whatever, but you NEED to start to get out there and MEET the people in your community, and try and get as many people to wake up, so that when the bad times come, you're not fighting them off, and you've already helped as many as you can to be SELF-Sufficient with food, water, supply lines, home made goods for barter, and the huge list of other good things that come with a Resilient Community that YOU help build.

If you don't think that is possible where you live, then GTFO right now, bro.

You're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution.  Be part of the solution.  Help those around you who want to do something, help open eyes, just get out there and help people learn something, even if its just how to grow your own food in your back yard so when SHTF they are not coming to your house, to beg or kill you for food and supplies.  Teach them how to prep if they will listen.

This might just be the most important thing that you can do to help make sure you survive SHTF. 

Are there going to be ones you cannot reach?  Of course!  But there are always more people out there.  We all have struck out a bunch, but we have also grown a pretty fucking KICKASS little community here in Georgia and I think you should at least try to do the same.  It is essential for your survival if SHTF, bro.

bro I have a HUGE respect for what you're trying to say and do, but you must understand, you and GAP are coming from a rural/semi-rural point of view. It's relatively impossible to "build tribe" in an urban/suburban setting. sure, you can seek out and find other preppers in the general area, and MAYBE even link up with them when the time comes, but that's a far cry from actually building tribe and creating a working community amid the utter chaos that the city/burbs would be in during a major event. It's a whole different ballpark around here, bro. nobody has "land". it's just lot after identical lot. so let's say that I get 2 or 3 of the neighbors on the block on board, that still leaves dozens of others. what should be done about them? who gives me arbitrary authority to dictate to them what they will and will not do? it's a very complicated and convoluted situation. it's not the same as a "group" retreating back to someone's land and guarding it. the only thing I can rightfully "guard" is my own little suburban lot. (maybe 100x60 feet)

[Kentactic]

Let me give one example to cover both mentally and physically how Americans today are at a great dissadvantage. As you sit today taking a breath your absorbing probably 60% of the oxygen some one 150 years ago in america or modern day in a 3rd world country intakes on each breath. Why? we are so lazy that we have forgotten how to properly breath. In a Freediving Class i took they had to teach us how to breath like a human was intended to breath to maximize our breath hold abilitys. We as americans breath with our chest. When we breath like this We are bypassing 2/3 of our Aveoli. Aveoli are the things that absorb the oxygen in to our blood stream. In order to access these additional Aveoli we must breath diphragmatically. thats bassically using the diaphram below the lungs to pull air down into the bottom of the lungs where those additional 2/3 of our aveoli are at. Your belly exapnds when you breath like this. If you watch a newborn baby breath, their belly moves. As we get older and lazier we lose this. In 3rd world countrys they still breath diaphragmatically.

So my point is just because they did it back in the day dosent mean you have the same abilitys as they did, Mentally or physically. How can we expect to acheive the same physical endurance as them with only 60% of the oxygen intake? One of many dissadvantages we have over our ancestors.

[NOLA556]

Let me give one example to cover both mentally and physically how Americans today are at a great dissadvantage. As you sit today taking a breath your absorbing probably 60% of the oxygen some one 150 years ago in america or modern day in a 3rd world country intakes on each breath. Why? we are so lazy that we have forgotten how to properly breath. In a Freediving Class i took they had to teach us how to breath like a human was intended to breath to maximize our breath hold abilitys. We as americans breath with our chest. When we breath like this We are bypassing 2/3 of our Aveoli. Aveoli are the things that absorb the oxygen in to our blood stream. In order to access these additional Aveoli we must breath diphragmatically. thats bassically using the diaphram below the lungs to pull air down into the bottom of the lungs where those additional 2/3 of our aveoli are at. Your belly exapnds when you breath like this. If you watch a newborn baby breath, their belly moves. As we get older and lazier we lose this. In 3rd world countrys they still breath diaphragmatically.

So my point is just because they did it back in the day dosent mean you have the same abilitys as they did, Mentally or physically. How can we expect to acheive the same physical endurance as them with only 60% of the oxygen intake? One of many dissadvantages we have over our ancestors.

you make a good point, but I must argue that it depends 100% on the person in question. We all know that society as a whole will fall. There's no question about that. But those of us who like to believe that we'll be able to rise above... why can't we learn to cope and adapt as the winds change? Hell, isn't that what prepping is about? It's not just about stocking up on material possessions, but altering the sheep mindset that MOST of us were born into. I don't claim to be as tough as my great grandpappy, I know for a fact that I'm soft as a marshmallow compared to him, but what's stopping me from TRYING to adapt? nothing, aside from a defeatist mindset.

[goodnightChesty1775]

FUCK a 30% of my body weight load out... i dont care if i just won the ninja warrior challenge im never carrying that much fuckin junk. As far as perception goes im not sure it has much to do with preppers. Im not going to try and win the hearts of my country with perception in this huge war im fighting. If im dealing with my immediate area i can speak individually to everyone to solve my problems. But more then likely i wont be in such a fight and so body count means less threats to me.

damn 30% sounds about right, the last field problem we had i had to hump the ASIP and batteries on top of my load (CLS bag too) i had a good 60 lbs total (more than 30% my weight lol). i tell ya moving through the think ass woods and bounding with that shit sucks, but its doable. but when i get out im going to set up my kit as light as possible so i can move as fast as possible, granted i wont have the luxury of the cool guy shit i have here, sadly.

[goodnightChesty1775]

hell yes. that is a hell of a rant. hes right about the "computer this and computer that" thing, as i said in my last post, carrying an ASIP, 2 batteries, hand mic, long whip gets pretty heavy close to 20 lbs id say, and that on top of your combat load your sucking...

mine personally is- 9 mags, 100oz camelbak, 1 qt canteen, nods, IFAK, and frags if we get any. plus plate carrier, plates, MICH. now that combat load is not too much by any means. but when you add the ASIP, the 'throw bot' (little robot thing with a camera, another 5 lbs or so for the whole kit.) MBITRs, DAGRs ect it does get really freaking heavy. and all that commo could get condenced like he said into a high speed do it all piece of gear. and instead of carrying 30 extra pounds of electronics you could carry extra ammo, water, food in a bag of some sort to sustain dismounted ops for more than a few hours.

[EJR914]

EJR but even if you CAN survive in this way for a long time... do you want to? My point is i dont beleive that i do. Have you lived under these conditions for any length of time to have a solid foundation for your opinion? I realise that all you need is food and water and a LOT of luck of health and you can survive... I dont mean to take advantage of knowing your situation as an attack but how horrible will it be if your own community carries you off into the woods because your back pain has gotten beyond any help and they must put you out of your misery? This could happen to anyone just from a relatively non life threatening injury by modern days standards. A tooth infection could kill you. Severe Diarrea could kill you. Its just not a life MOST Americans can mentally handle. There will likely be random killings and sabotage when people finally snap in a community like that. Our minds cant deal with a life that rough with no hope of change any time soon.

All im saying is take a step back and think about if you truely think its possible for you. I realise you might have other modivations and burdens that i dont as you have a family and perhaps a swift death isnt something you can hope for. If i was in a better location and situation id probably prep for a much longer term scenario. But that just means id prep more modern supplies. More canned refried beans, more TP, more ammo, more everything. I want to make it clear that choosing not to live a fantasy of the little house on the prairie does NOT make me a sheeple. I dont really appreciate that comparison. If anything im less of a sheeple because im MORE aware of MY reality(not saying its yours). If you feel that yours varies thats fine. I truely wish the best for you EJR and we couldnt ask for a better candidate of a smart, goodwilled, moral person then yourself to start things over for us.

Really? You really think I I haven't talked about that bro? I prep, I think ahead for everything and you think I haven't thought it through bro? GAP and I probably talk about it once a week.  If I'm dead weight, they'll make sure it is over quick.  Right now I'm looking at surgical options to fix it. I'll survive as long as I can. If I become a burden, I can't think of a better way to go. All I hear are a lot of excuses. I'm going to man the fuck up. Plus I'm prepping tons of things to help me anyway.

Also, if I offended you by the sheeple comparison, I do apologies, as I didn't meant that you are a sheeple, I just said that way of thinking sounded like one to me, but I was getting pretty passionate, and I'm high on crazy ass legal pills right now, so you'll have to excuse me and know that there was no offense meant in that man.

I just want us all to do what is best for us, right now, so that when the SHTF, you can survive as long as possible as a free man.

If you're telling me you hope to die quickly in a complete societal collapse then that is cool man, I hope you get your wish, but I just don't see that is something that I would want for myself.  I want to live for as long as I can, to see my family and protect them as long as I can.  That's cool if you don't man it really is, and I am sorry you feel that way, but it is what it is.  Its all cool, and remember, if it ever gets too much to bear, you can always run into a hail of gun fire from the opposing force, or you can just take care of yourself on your terms, however, you want it.  You own your own life, nobody else. 

Like I said, I'm sorry if my brash comparison hurt your feelings, but there really was no offense meant by it, so for that I do apologize if it hurt your feelings.  You're a good man, Ken, and I'd rather good men like you be around and alive than some of these animals.  Just my two cents. 

If you ever need any help or want any ideas, I'm always here willing to talk about what I've learned and know.

[EJR914]

bro I have a HUGE respect for what you're trying to say and do, but you must understand, you and GAP are coming from a rural/semi-rural point of view. It's relatively impossible to "build tribe" in an urban/suburban setting. sure, you can seek out and find other preppers in the general area, and MAYBE even link up with them when the time comes, but that's a far cry from actually building tribe and creating a working community amid the utter chaos that the city/burbs would be in during a major event. It's a whole different ballpark around here, bro. nobody has "land". it's just lot after identical lot. so let's say that I get 2 or 3 of the neighbors on the block on board, that still leaves dozens of others. what should be done about them? who gives me arbitrary authority to dictate to them what they will and will not do? it's a very complicated and convoluted situation. it's not the same as a "group" retreating back to someone's land and guarding it. the only thing I can rightfully "guard" is my own little suburban lot. (maybe 100x60 feet)

Did you even bother reading my whole post before you commented on it?  You know I've always said if you are in the city GTFO!!!!  You know that means "get the fuck out," right?  Same goes for ANY bad location?  Did you even read my post before you commented?  If you are in an area where you can't find any people to help build a resilient community GTFO right now!!!  If you are in a city, GTFO!  Go rural.  Get out of the city!  I don't get why it is so hard for you all to understand me.  All I hear are excuses and bitching.  Go be the solution (or part of it) and drop the defeatist attitude.  I'll go ahead and tell you, NOLA, get the fuck out of NOLA, right now.  I'm telling you that as a friend, who would like to see you and your family survive SHTF.  Like I've already told Ken, I'm much rather you guys survive than the animals.  I have no idea why ya'll haven't already displaced, moved, and found jobs elsewhere.  Staying in NOLA is suicide, IMHO.

[APX808]

People will do crazy shit to survive, things that sitting on your couch writing a post in the board don't even cross your mind.
A guy amputated is own arm using a chinese multitool (watch 127 hours movie), some rugby players lost in Los andes ate human flesh and escaped the wreck by themselves.

For sure life post SHTF isn't as romantic as "Patriots" book portraits it, it will fucking suck, and life expectancy will be the half of what it is right now, but fuck it I think everyone in this board will fight the good fight until the end, because being here you already demonstrated that you have a strong survival instinct.

About John Mosby... That guy's blog is fucking A, I think is the best blog that I know.

[Kentactic]

These are the type of topics we need to do conference calls on. Maybe i am being a defeatist, maybe im just making excuses. Im always open to my opinions being changed. I know i need a fire lit under my ass to get me out of CA already. Then again whats the point of surviving in another state when all your friends and family die off back in CA. These are good topics of discussion.

[NOLA556]

Did you even bother reading my whole post before you commented on it?  You know I've always said if you are in the city GTFO!!!!  You know that means "get the fuck out," right?  Same goes for ANY bad location?  Did you even read my post before you commented?  If you are in an area where you can't find any people to help build a resilient community GTFO right now!!!  If you are in a city, GTFO!  Go rural.  Get out of the city!  I don't get why it is so hard for you all to understand me.  All I hear are excuses and bitching.  Go be the solution (or part of it) and drop the defeatist attitude.  I'll go ahead and tell you, NOLA, get the fuck out of NOLA, right now.  I'm telling you that as a friend, who would like to see you and your family survive SHTF.  Like I've already told Ken, I'm much rather you guys survive than the animals.  I have no idea why ya'll haven't already displaced, moved, and found jobs elsewhere.  Staying in NOLA is suicide, IMHO.

first, calm down.

second, yes, I read your post.

third, so I should just get out with the $4.75 that I currently have to my name? just like that, huh? and where could I go given my current situation? you know of any places where I can live for free (because I'd be walking away from the job that i just got a week and a half ago), where I can take care of a 3 yr old while i weather the storm? fill me in bro, you seem to have all the answers.

[EJR914]

I'm sure you've had plenty of time to plan to move, since you became aware as a prepper.  First, make sure that you and your lady have jobs, after that you're going to save up money, a lot of money.  Do whatever you can to save money.  I mean live like you are the poorest person in the world living on the street even though you have a job.  That is the first obvious step.  Come back when you've done that.  That's how I got out of the crap place I was in.   [url=http://www.freesmileys.or