Low Profile SHTF "war belt" setup

[Currahee]

DVC you missed a couple of points-

By just wearing a belt you get the option to add or subract stuff while retaining muscle memory I could just as easily have worn a two or three pistol mag rig that day, could have added a BOK or a coms pouch, and have added all that stuff before. BUT the more stuff you add to your belt the less viable it is, for a dozen reasons. (confort, endurance, vehicle egress, concealability)

You demand that everything be put to the timer as a practical demonstration, I have put everything on a timer and readily admit that a belt reload is fastest.... but I would contend that unless you have worn that rig for 8+ hours while running, getting in and out of vehicles, doing burpies low crawling and grass drills, that the speed of your reload is moot.  Speed of reload is the last thing that you should be considering when setting up gear (unlesss you're just in it for the gaming.) If your in a situation where a half second vs full 2 second reload matters you are A) in a 3 gun stage or B) should be running for cover instead of reloading.

[USMC0331]

DVC you missed a couple of points-

...BUT the more stuff you add to your belt the less viable it is, for a dozen reasons. (confort, endurance, vehicle egress, concealability)

So what is your less than full kit solution? Your CH is not it. What and how would you carry mags (how many), COMMS (where at), handgun, light, BOK concealed in 98deg weather?  Off carry like a "battle bag?"

You demand that everything be put to the timer as a practical demonstration, I have put everything on a timer and readily admit that a belt reload is fastest.... but I would contend that unless you have worn that rig for 8+ hours while running, getting in and out of vehicles, doing burpies low crawling and grass drills, that the speed of your reload is moot. 

Fatigue will set in with that much on the belt without suspenders which I plan to use.

Doing PT in kit is a good rattle/drop test but does not simulate everyday tasks. I don't need a kit that is comfortable to run 2 miles in or do 50 burpies in. As long as it holds retention through a standard O-course (I use the local SWAT teams) it should hold up fine to everyday tasks and mouthing, dismounting vehicles. The biggest issue of which is having stuff hanging outside your normal width always catching on the doors.

Being able to wear the rig for 8 hrs while doing normal activities and it being able to  hold up  under short bursts of exercise like jumping a fence, 100 yard sprint, mount dismount vehicle is what I consider sufficient testing. YMMV

Speed of reload is the last thing that you should be considering when set ting up gear (unlesss you're just in it for the gaming.) If your in a situation where a half second vs full 2 second reload matters you are A) in a 3 gun stage or B) should be running for cover instead of reloading.

Remembering that this is a layer to a larger setup, one that fills the role of e-loads in that system, speed is right after retention with the nod going to speed. You know this or your belt mounted AR mag would be in a covered pouch also.

1.5 sec = 30 ft of closing distance, the average drawstroke time, speed matters. 30ft can open a shot angle to you while you are loading. Speed is NEVER a handicap in a fight unless it sacrifices accuracy and even then it's not always a losing proposition.

I'm curious to know what your setup is for the scenarios I've been applying toward this rig and it's niche.  Do you go from EDC to full kit, plan on EDC + active shooter bag?  Not add COMMS and BOK to the EDC?

[APX808]

I believe the best solution that provides real low profile, nice weight distribution and maneuverability is

EDC + backpack with bulky items (Radio, BOK, extra ammo, some food and basic hydration)

[USMC0331]

How do you use the COMMS with it in the pack?  A BOK (or at least CAT-T) that is not immediately available is not worth much.

Are you never letting the pack out of your grip?
Have you practiced running ammo out of it in a fight? Do you have enough on you to finish or evade from a fight without having to dig in the pack?

[thatGuy]

So you want to put commo, bok, pistol and mags (both pistol and rifle) on your belt line and keep it concealed at the same time?

All you need is the right clothing,

[USMC0331]

Did you read the thread? How about your solution?

Why is it so hard to envision scenarios where that is exactly what you want in SHTF?

I was wondering how long it would take for the batbelt analogy to appear.

[Currahee]

My less than full kit is pretty much exactly what you saw in the vid except I can add a dual pistol pouch, radio pouch or BOK.  I retain the ability to take off peices, untuck my short and be really concealed.

You mentioned a Katrina event as a condition for wearing this- I lived through Katrina, spent a month traveling around doing real post didsaster stuff. I felt completely comfy with my Glock and flashlight on me- I had an AR and a bandoleer in the passenger seet at all times.  (I'll dig up a picture of that kit when I get home)

Damnit; TG now I have the freeking batman theme stuck in my head!

[USMC0331]

My less than full kit is pretty much exactly what you saw in the vid except I can add a dual pistol pouch, radio pouch or BOK.  I retain the ability to take off peices, untuck my short and be really concealed.

So other then using individual holders, it's the same setup?

You mentioned a Katrina event as a condition for wearing this- I lived through Katrina, spent a month traveling around doing real post didsaster stuff. I felt completely comfy with my Glock and flashlight on me- I had an AR and a bandoleer in the passenger seet at all times.  (I'll dig up a picture of that kit when I get home)

Have you shared your experience through Katrina before?  If I had a link I could read it and not ask questions you've likely already answered about it.  Just as APX has proven a completely different aspect of the Argentina crisis from FerFal, peoples experiences from the same crisis can be polar opposites. 

When I say "Katrina" type SHTF, I'm referring to the worst of what happened during that incident.

[Deathstyle]

Can we post links from other prepper forums here? I have a really good one of a different forum's member who initially left NOLA to drop off his family with relatives outta state then came back and stayed to protect his business with a few friends. It probably is as good a read as Selco's postings on SHTF School or that excerpt from SurvivalistsBoards that has been passed around the internet where Selco explains his experience in the Balkins.


Sorry for the thred derail but its a very good read. 

[JohnyMac]

Absolutely Deathstyle.

[Deathstyle]

Here it is:

http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=16627

I suggest you read it a couple of times before posting a question and bringing back a really old thread.

If it creates a conversation here then perhaps the mods can create its own thread to keep this one on track.

[USMC0331]

Death, great link, will be reading for a while. Looking forward to hearing C's opinion of it also.

[Currahee]

Said I would post pics of what I carried post Katrina



The G21 was mostly carried in a Fobus, which worked great so I could disarm easily when going in to places that were guarded by oodles of itchy out of town PoPo.  The AR was in the passenger seat or in bed with me the whole time.  The biggest lesson I learned was weapon lights rule- note the redneck engineering.   That was life for about a month wondering around doing assloads if manual labor.

[USMC0331]

Currahee,
Did you get to use that AR with light much?  I don't mean shooting, but checking things out at night.  If so, did you then or later feel you would have been more comfortable with a red dot on it verses the irons?

Lights on carbines are pretty important IMO, Clint Smith even recommends two!  I've tried the two on the gun route and decided that a good LED WML and a backup 6PLED was enough for my taste.

[Currahee]

Currahee,
Did you get to use that AR with light much?  I don't mean shooting, but checking things out at night.  If so, did you then or later feel you would have been more comfortable with a red dot on it verses the irons?

Lights on carbines are pretty important IMO, Clint Smith even recommends two!  I've tried the two on the gun route and decided that a good LED WML and a backup 6PLED was enough for my taste.

I capped two dogs at my parents with that (need a supressor to do that in my neighborhood)  I'm not a believer in "checking stuff out" with the light on a gun, unless I perceive a threat already, I'm using a handheld- but I certainly believe in weapons light for non tactical self defense.  I certainly feel that a red dot is superior and have a much better setup now (Aimpoint and surefire G2) but back then I was a bit poorer.  IIRC that had a fiber optic front sight at the time which worked pretty well at night with the large aperture on the rear.

[USMC0331]

If I've got a carbine in my hand and I'm checking things out (bump in night) I'm using the light on it.  I know people have issues with that but something made me grab the carbine that warrants a proactive response so using a handheld along with it makes no sense to me.

Are you saying that you investigate with a handheld and keep the carbine pointed away from the light?

A friend gave me an Ashley Bigdot for the AR that is a nice addition if one can't have a dot, but the cost of a Burris dot is about the same and they have a good rep for being rugged enough in a pinch. 

Suppressors are definitely worth their weight.  I'm not in the mood or financial position to get another, but a 556 can like the SF Mini would be my first choice if I was.  I can use my .308 can for now but it's heavy and not something I want to keep on the gun.  A light 9mm can and a Glock can go a long way though, I'm trying to figure out a solution for aiming one now.

[APX808]

I think Currahee was using the handheld, because he was in a disaster zone not  a war zone, bumping up into people with a gun pointed at them for no reason, doesn't sounds like the best way of making new friends

[rah45]

Suppressors are definitely worth their weight.  I'm not in the mood or financial position to get another, but a 556 can like the SF Mini would be my first choice if I was.  I can use my .308 can for now but it's heavy and not something I want to keep on the gun.  A light 9mm can and a Glock can go a long way though, I'm trying to figure out a solution for aiming one now.

I'm glad you brought this up. If I had to pick a suppressor, unless you're in a mostly rural area with lots of space, wouldn't it be a better idea to invest in a pistol suppressor first? I'd rather have both, but unless it's full-on TEOTWAWKI, I could see needing a concealable pistol more than a rifle and full battle rattle. I've wondered for a while if, during a SHTF event in which it isn't wise to go full , it wouldn't be a really good idea to carry a version of this belt described in the OP dedicated just to your secondary, having a case for your suppressor on the belt, also. Perhaps it's just a crazy idea, but I would think that, especially in a place where you're in danger and stuck with your secondary only, it would be a good idea to minimize your shots' reports.   Though, I would imagine that the suppressor adds a significant amount of bulk and weight to a belt, probably making it unfeasible. Would it be possible to carry a suppressor for your sidearm and still remain relatively comfy/agile and keep your equipment mostly concealed, at least from a distance?

Before anybody rails me about my rifle and spare ammo for it during this scenario, my idea is to keep my belt dedicated to the pistol, as it is what I will have when I wear the belt, and have a vest/bandoleer that always stays with the rifle. You pick up the rifle, you pick up the ammo, too. Every time.