President O' Biden is Collecting Form 4473 Records

[JohnyMac]

President O' Biden strikes again. This man has yet to see an Amendment from the Bill of Rights that he likes. I am sorry to say, this is the most illegal President in my lifetime. 

"The Biden administration in just the past year alone stockpiled the records of more than 54 million U.S. gun owners and is poised to drastically alter gun regulations to ensure that information on Americans who own firearms ultimately ends up in the federal government's hands, according to internal Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) documents obtained by the Washington Free Beacon.

The ATF in fiscal year 2021 processed 54.7 million out-of-business records, according to an internal ATF document obtained by the Gun Owners of America, a firearms advocacy group, and provided exclusively to the Free Beacon. When a licensed gun store goes out of business, its private records detailing gun transactions become ATF property and are stored at a federal site in West Virginia. This practice allows the federal government to stockpile scores of gun records and has drawn outrage from gun advocacy groups that say the government is using this information to create a national database of gun owners?which has long been prohibited under U.S. law." - Washington Free Beacon

The FFL I deal with ONLY uses Form 4473 and does not scan them. At this point it is NOT required to scan Form 4473's however encouraged to do so. Also, Form 4473's do not need to be held after 21-years.

Many small FFL retailers, store their Form 4473's in a storage facility that can be accidently torched in a minutes notice if their is a foreign invasion Ala Red Dawn. Before using a FFL for a transfer, ask what there his/her business's SOP (Standard Operation Procedure) is.

Last, please keep in mind, without a shiton (Financial term) of extra manpower, can you imagine how long it would take to process those 54.7M Form 4473's? Just think of all the private transactions in states it is legal, that have happened since a firearm was exchanged between two consenting adults. 

[grizz]

Laws mean NOTHING to these people, they (govt) will do as they please?

[CJS06]

I will NOT stick up for President Pantload, however this is a total clickbait story. The digitization of 4473s from closed gun shops has been going on for a number of years going back well into the Trump administration. There have been multiple stories about this over the last couple of years, only this one is now playing the Biden angle.  I DO NOT want any kind of a data base of gun owners, but this article is incredibly disingenuous. The ATF receiving the A&D Books and 4473s of closed licencees has been going on since the start of the background check system....decades.

I do not trust the ATF (read the Gov) with any of our paperwork, but this is very much a non-story if you have ever paid the slightest bit of attention before. There has been alot of talk about the current layout of the 4473 itself.  It now shows the make and s/n info on the same side of the form as the Name & Address info.  Many have speculated that this is so that the ATF can quickly scan or take pictures of these during their audits, and get all of our info. Having sat through an audit that took 3 days I could see where it is possible for extremely small shops, but would be still extremely difficult for a shop with any volume at all.  In the case of the audit I was involved with , nothing like this happened at all.

Chris

[grizz]

I will NOT stick up for President Pantload, however this is a total clickbait story. The digitization of 4473s from closed gun shops has been going on for a number of years going back well into the Trump administration. There have been multiple stories about this over the last couple of years, only this one is now playing the Biden angle.  I DO NOT want any kind of a data base of gun owners, but this article is incredibly disingenuous. The ATF receiving the A&D Books and 4473s of closed licencees has been going on since the start of the background check system....decades.

I do not trust the ATF (read the Gov) with any of our paperwork, but this is very much a non-story if you have ever paid the slightest bit of attention before. There has been alot of talk about the current layout of the 4473 itself.  It now shows the make and s/n info on the same side of the form as the Name & Address info.  Many have speculated that this is so that the ATF can quickly scan or take pictures of these during their audits, and get all of our info. Having sat through an audit that took 3 days I could see where it is possible for extremely small shops, but would be still extremely difficult for a shop with any volume at all.  In the case of the audit I was involved with , nothing like this happened at all.

Chris

Its a "non-story" until they kick in your door looking for something your purchased decades ago or even last week

[CJS06]

Its a "non-store" until they kick in your door looking for something your purchased decades ago or even last week
[/quote]

That decade old info has been in their hands......for decades.  And the stuff you bought last week...unless the gunshop you bought it from last week closed this week then they dont have.  That is why it is a non-story.  Again, I didnt say to trust the Gov or ATF, hell I dont, but the way this story is written makes it seem like something new.

Have any of you had a visit from ATF related to gun purchases....I have.  I went through a period where I bought or transfered about 35 guns in a 1 month period. The agent contacted me, came to my house inquiring about the unusual high volume.  I showed him all of my receipts, the actual firearms I still had, and the paperwork where the ones I didnt have any longer went. It was civil, non threatening and he didnt ask for or take any paperwork or copies. The whole visit took less than an hour and at least 15mins of it was answering my questions.  Maybe a lesson here is keep good records for yourself.  I keep my own "A&D" book.

Could there be a time if things continue where they come kicking in the future. I suppose there could, after a number of other significant steps, but the only way it is happening now is if you do something genuinely wrong to draw their attention, but it better be BIG.

Be cautious, be aware......but dont jump the shark. 

Chris

[pkveazey]

Those forms only track a firearm to the first retail purchaser. If Joe Blow and John Smith both decide they want the same firearm, they can go and buy them together and then trade firearms. BAM! End of paper trail. When some Government flunky shows up and asks about it, you just tell them you no longer have it.

[grizz]

Have any of you had a visit from ATF related to gun purchases....I have.  I went through a period where I bought or transfered about 35 guns in a 1 month period. The agent contacted me, came to my house inquiring about the unusual high volume.  I showed him all of my receipts, the actual firearms I still had, and the paperwork where the ones I didnt have any longer went. It was civil, non threatening and he didnt ask for or take any paperwork or copies. The whole visit took less than an hour and at least 15mins of it was answering my questions.  Maybe a lesson here is keep good records for yourself.  I keep my own "A&D" book.

Could there be a time if things continue where they come kicking in the future. I suppose there could, after a number of other significant steps, but the only way it is happening now is if you do something genuinely wrong to draw their attention, but it better be BIG.

Be cautious, be aware......but dont jump the shark. 

Chris

Did they have a warrant?
At what point in time did your (anybody's) personal property come into question from fleas?
Does your state require a paper trail for the personal sale of personal items?

[CJS06]

Grizz

He didnt need a warrant as he just called and asked if I would explain the unusual high number. I have and keep paperwork in order and follow all applicable laws. I voluntarily discussed it with him. He was doing his job properly as we would want.  Often unusual activity like I had is a dead ringer for straw purchases, and other illegal activity. For those 35-ish guns I did approx 20(22 if I remember) 4473s in 34 days. He didnt have any idea what I bought,just that I had them done, but that activity could reasonably be considered suspect, especially split between 4-5 different shops.

I was buying multiple Garands, Carbines, 1911s to get various parts to make very specific "correct" guns. I then sold off all but 5 of those guns.  I explained what I had done, quickly showed the receipts and was done. He was more interested in the historical significance of the the completed guns as he was a collector himself. If a simple pleasant, civil check like that prevents guns getting into the hands of shit-bags it was no issue. 

He asked for and kept no paperwork and was very professional.  It was what you would like to expect from a LEO.

BTW, yes, the State of RI requires a background check for all transfers, including personal. No face to face here. Even a gift to a family member needs to go through the system.

Chris

[JohnyMac]

Interesting Chris. Thx for sharing.