Author Topic: Duty and Self Preservation  (Read 5076 times)

Offline EJR914

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Duty and Self Preservation
« on: September 04, 2011, 04:52:56 PM »
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Duty and Self Preservation

So, here's a hypothetical.  A nasty period of violence breaks out.  Rule of law is gone.  You are convinced that it is morally wrong to initiate violence.  You receive clear information indicating that tonight, a mob/gang that is sheltered at a certain house plans to ransack and destroy your neighborhood.  Mobs are not kind to women and children, like those in your care.

Do you preempt and remove the threat, risking your conscience and possibly your soul? (Please refrain from eternal salvation arguments in this instance.  I personally take no position on the question.  I just don't know.  That's why I am not God...I digress...)

or

Do you prepare for an assault, and hope your defenses are sound enough?  You and your family will prepare to meet your maker unspotted and blameless, should you die defending yourselves.

I know other options are available, such as running away, getting the family out, etc.  For the sake of conversation, pretend only two options exist.

I think as far as I am concerned, preemption would be the proper course, even if I had reservations on its propriety.  Ending the threat to my family as quickly as possible would be the only moral course of action.

I am a man and a husband, a father and protector.  My family depends on me, whether it is to fight off physical threats or to bring home a paycheck.


Another great read from Arctic Patriot, much more at link:  http://arcticpatriot.blogspot.com/2011/09/duty-and-self-preservation.html

505th.NM.Militia

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2011, 05:10:16 PM »
I understand many people have beliefs that prohibit them from commiting certain acts.  Unfortunatly these beliefs are not natural, but rather societal beliefs, and will not serve them well in a WROL situation, where society has been replaced with the natural order. 

Offline sledge

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2011, 05:13:32 PM »
Remove threats.  Remove them as soon as you become aware of them.     



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

southern patriot

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2011, 05:17:59 PM »
You answered your question for me!
(Imo) its a no brainer,take the fight to them and keep it as far away as possible from your family/neighborhood/camp.....plus there is the element of surprise that would be in your favor!
As for spiritual aspects,the "thou shall not kill" commandment gets lost in traslation from hebrew to greek......it actually refers to cold blooded murder!
Im positive that theres not a man on this forum that would hesitate a milisecond to lay down his life to insure the safety of his family.
Great post man!! A good offense beats a good defense in this situation..

Offline NOLA556

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2011, 05:33:36 PM »
AP is freakin great. I read his blog every morning. he was a member on L&L, someone should drop him a line about straightprep...
Rome is burning, and Obama is playing the fiddle - GAP

kindredspirit

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2011, 11:43:58 PM »
My biggest fear would not be about spiritual ramifications of such an act, but rather the fear of letting my famly and loved ones down.
The will to survive, even just to see the next sunrise, supercedes any immediate concerns of long term psychological effects.
I pray that I have the fortitude to protect them.


CrookedSights

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2011, 12:29:02 AM »
   I've never been put in a situation where I had to take someones life, nor do I have a wife or children. But if you have ill intent towards someone I care about... You screwed the pooch once the thought crossed your mind. I see nothing morally or ethically wrong dropping someone whose intent on spilling innocent blood. In my opinion, tactically you're better off hitting them first, but put you're community on high alert until after you're sure you eliminated the threat entirely.

Offline NOLA556

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2011, 12:32:41 AM »
My biggest fear would not be about spiritual ramifications of such an act, but rather the fear of letting my famly and loved ones down.
The will to survive, even just to see the next sunrise, supercedes any immediate concerns of long term psychological effects.
I pray that I have the fortitude to protect them.

kindred, you need nothing more than rabid, ruthless instinct. if you fail, well, then you fail. I can muster my full battle dress. all 8 magazines, boots, rifle, everything... and I can give 'em hell... but there's no guarantee that I'll be victorious. as long as I do everything humanly possible to make sure those dogs taste their own blood before they die...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 12:34:14 AM by NOLA556 »
Rome is burning, and Obama is playing the fiddle - GAP

kindredspirit

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2011, 09:35:42 PM »
My biggest fear would not be about spiritual ramifications of such an act, but rather the fear of letting my famly and loved ones down.
The will to survive, even just to see the next sunrise, supercedes any immediate concerns of long term psychological effects.
I pray that I have the fortitude to protect them.

kindred, you need nothing more than rabid, ruthless instinct. if you fail, well, then you fail. I can muster my full battle dress. all 8 magazines, boots, rifle, everything... and I can give 'em hell... but there's no guarantee that I'll be victorious. as long as I do everything humanly possible to make sure those dogs taste their own blood before they die...

I think about this a lot.... who I will become, what would I be capable in a WORL situation.... I want to believe that I would help as many people as I can. I want to believe that there will still be good in people. I want to believe that people will still treat me fairly. I want to believe that no one would want to harm me. I want to believe that I would never have to use a gun.  I look at my kids and I know in my heart, without a doubt, that I would both die and kill for them.

Men must always look strong... never show weakness.  I cant imagine what a burden that must be.  My ex brother-in-law relayed to me a story about his crew chief as they went into Iraq.... I had met this guy once... tough, brave, exceptional training..... a leader.  Yet when his convoy came under fire, he curled up under the turets and cried.  I'm not taking anything away from this guy and the service he provided to his country.  But, it makes me think.... that when it really comes down to it... no matter how hard we train, or prep, or think we are prepared for a given situation....when you are staring your own mortality in the face.....can we really predict how we will respond?  The truth is, I am scared.  Scared that I will lose my faith in the human spirit.  Scared I will refuse to help others... when my entire life has been spent helping those who need me.  I am scared of seeing my children go hungry... and not being able to provide for them or protect them.   Scared of what I will do when my finger is on the trigger and it comes down to your life or mine.

Fear is a big motivator for me...   It is why I am here now.   You are right... I can only give it everything I have and hope that rabid ruthless instinct kicks in.

Offline NOLA556

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 09:58:56 PM »
My biggest fear would not be about spiritual ramifications of such an act, but rather the fear of letting my famly and loved ones down.
The will to survive, even just to see the next sunrise, supercedes any immediate concerns of long term psychological effects.
I pray that I have the fortitude to protect them.

kindred, you need nothing more than rabid, ruthless instinct. if you fail, well, then you fail. I can muster my full battle dress. all 8 magazines, boots, rifle, everything... and I can give 'em hell... but there's no guarantee that I'll be victorious. as long as I do everything humanly possible to make sure those dogs taste their own blood before they die...

I think about this a lot.... who I will become, what would I be capable in a WORL situation.... I want to believe that I would help as many people as I can. I want to believe that there will still be good in people. I want to believe that people will still treat me fairly. I want to believe that no one would want to harm me. I want to believe that I would never have to use a gun.  I look at my kids and I know in my heart, without a doubt, that I would both die and kill for them.

Men must always look strong... never show weakness.  I cant imagine what a burden that must be.  My ex brother-in-law relayed to me a story about his crew chief as they went into Iraq.... I had met this guy once... tough, brave, exceptional training..... a leader.  Yet when his convoy came under fire, he curled up under the turets and cried.  I'm not taking anything away from this guy and the service he provided to his country.  But, it makes me think.... that when it really comes down to it... no matter how hard we train, or prep, or think we are prepared for a given situation....when you are staring your own mortality in the face.....can we really predict how we will respond?  The truth is, I am scared.  Scared that I will lose my faith in the human spirit.  Scared I will refuse to help others... when my entire life has been spent helping those who need me.  I am scared of seeing my children go hungry... and not being able to provide for them or protect them.   Scared of what I will do when my finger is on the trigger and it comes down to your life or mine.

Fear is a big motivator for me...   It is why I am here now.   You are right... I can only give it everything I have and hope that rabid ruthless instinct kicks in.

kindred, nothing can truly prepare you for situations like that. all we can do is speculate about what it might feel like. I know that I've never felt it before. for all my hardships, never once have I had to face the possibility of my own mortality.

but one thing I can offer you that I doubt many others can, is that your faith in man is in vein. your faith in human compassion and human dignity is in vein. that holds true in WROL just as it does right now, present day. humans have become filthy things. and I'm not talking from a religious standpoint, but just from a observatory standpoint.

honestly, I think your best bet is to LOSE faith in humanity and look after yourself. stop viewing people as "souls" and start viewing them as meat. because now-a-days, that's all they are, with the rare exception of people like you and I.

of course, I can't predict how I will behave when the pressure is really on, but I'd like to think of myself as that rabid dog. blind to all emotion, sympathy, and/or feeling. It may seem like a terrible way to live life, but you either live or you die, and the one's who have faith in humanity are weak (IMO) and will be taken full advantage of. don't be one of them.
Rome is burning, and Obama is playing the fiddle - GAP

Offline EJR914

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2011, 03:27:37 AM »
But, it makes me think.... that when it really comes down to it... no matter how hard we train, or prep, or think we are prepared for a given situation....when you are staring your own mortality in the face.....can we really predict how we will respond?  The truth is, I am scared.  Scared that I will lose my faith in the human spirit.  Scared I will refuse to help others... when my entire life has been spent helping those who need me.  I am scared of seeing my children go hungry... and not being able to provide for them or protect them.   Scared of what I will do when my finger is on the trigger and it comes down to your life or mine.

Fear is a big motivator for me...   It is why I am here now.   You are right... I can only give it everything I have and hope that rabid ruthless instinct kicks in.

I'm a very nice, kind, mild-mannered person, I don't like confrontation, I try to do everything to not  have confrontation, I'm fairly meek, I have also never initiated a fight in my life, so I never started one.  I have finished a couple, however, I despise violence, and I actually cannot hit another person in the face first, unless I feel threatened and they hit first.

Well a few years ago, I was held at gun point by two really big strong teenagers, I'm short, but stocky I guess.  They were much bigger than me.  After being struck in the face, and held at gunpoint, I found a rage inside me that I had never felt before, the adrenalin literally made me crazy, a psycho, blood thirsty psycho, I turned into an animal.  I damaged one of the guys genitalia so bad by a hundred or so blows from the stock of his own rifle, that I ripped his nut sack, detached his penis from his body, and made him impotent for life.  I told him I was going to kill him and I believe it.  Had I had something on me, with which I could have killed him, I would have in that moment.  I also had the hammer dropped on me twice, and because of a bad firing pin, my life was spared.  God was watching out for me, guess I was supposed to live, God had bigger plans for me, I guess.

Anyway, I never in one million years expected myself to react so savagely to anything in my entire life.  I literally turned into a wild gorilla, a king of the beasts, I lost my mind and went completely native.  Its the only time in my life I actually wanted to kill another human being and would have if I had the means.  I'm probably one of the nicest and most kind people you would ever meet, you'd look at me, and not in a million years believe the monster I turned into, and the people there said the exact same thing.  They said I went form nice and mild-mannered, to a completely psychotic blood thirsty killer in about 10 seconds when I was assaulted, my life and my friend's lives threatened. 

Of course, once the adrenalin ceased, and I tended to my gaping head wounds from being pistol whipped repeatedly, I returned back to normal, but I learned something very amazing about my self.  Something I never thought I was capable of.  If pushed to, I will kill in defense of my life, and most definitely, the ones I love, even though I'm probably one of the nicest guys you could ever meet. 

I'm glad I know that about myself, but there is no way I could have known that about myself before it happens.  I imagine that's the same for anyone.  When the shit gets thick, people either fold or they rise to the occasion.  I'm glad I'm one that rises to the occasion, but not everyone has this, and there is NO WAY to tell which way you will go until the shit gets thick.  You have to have it happen to you, before you know what you will do.  Its just a hard cold fact. 

I pray that we are all the type people that will rise to the occasion, but the truth is, that you never know until tested.  Until then, pray hard, and pray that we will never need all this stuff that we are prepping for.  Once the can is opened, its going to be hard to put the worms back in.  Its not something I want to happen, but I know that I'm prepared for it if it does happen.  God Bless.

Offline Outonowhere

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2011, 08:52:06 PM »
Growing up my answer would have been different.  Life has a way of chewing you up and you either man the fuck up or get digested. 

I skimmed the responses but this is basically just my reply to the OP.  When it comes to SHTF/WROL... A moments hesitation could mean the difference between you living another day (whether you "live" with what you did or it doesn't bother you which I doubt) or you watching your women raped as the blood flows from a crimson line across your throat.

Just sayin...
"A GREAT CONTRADICTION IS THE BELIEF IN STATES RIGHTS WHILE NOT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL."  - Me
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southern patriot

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2011, 08:55:47 PM »
 [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

Offline mountainredneck2051

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2011, 02:04:01 AM »
do what you got to do

thats all i'm gonna say
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Offline Outonowhere

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2011, 01:35:37 PM »
do what you got to do

thats all i'm gonna say
Then its BBQ time! Reaver style!  :))  sorry I couldn't help it.
"A GREAT CONTRADICTION IS THE BELIEF IN STATES RIGHTS WHILE NOT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL."  - Me
Han shot first!

Offline Veritas

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2011, 01:31:47 AM »
Well, to answer the question....


If I know for sure that there is a group of people that is going to come into my home to cause harm, the only thing to do is preempt the threat. 

It's kinda like freeing hearts and minds.  Two to the heart, one to the mind.


Darwinism at it's finest.....


Might even invite Reaver over.....   [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Offline WhiskeyJack

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2011, 05:08:12 PM »
Preempt.
Keeping the fight as far away from your loved ones and supplies is an OPSEC issue plain and simple. I dont think morality plays a part in this discusion. Keep the fight as far away from your AO as posible. Even if you plan on Un-assing your AO you will prolly need to go out and draw fire to buy your people time to pack and run.
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Offline tominphx

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Re: Duty and Self Preservation
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2011, 05:04:50 AM »
I would rather fight for my home, than from it.

I would attempt to confirm that they where planning an attack before doing anything.

If they have the intent, and ability to do bad things to me, I'm not going to wait until they have the opportunity.
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