Need info from those who know more than I

[JoJo]

I know these are difficult questions because I'm not giving you alot of information but the recent shooting has tweaked my brain.
I read somewhere awhile ago that 5.56 M855 ammo would go thru body armor "A" but not Body armor "B" and M193  would go thru Body armor would go thru body armor "B" but not "A", so my questions are.
 Is this true?
 What types of body armor are there?   
 What is the difference between M193 and 223 55gr?

[CJS06]

It is not an easy simple answer.  Properly designed Level III and Level IV plates will stop both M193 and M855.  Some steel and composite plates are defeated by lighter, faster moving 5.56 like M193.  This is why getting good quality plates is important.  Also confirm that any plates you get actually carry the NIJ certification, not just the famous "meets NIJ standards" that you will often see.  Be careful of inexpensive plates...often you get what you pay for.

Here is a good article to read about some Level III testing.

http://www.bodyarmornews.com/level-iii-plate/

Chris

JoJo I didnt answer your question about types of armor out there. Basically there is Soft Armor and Hard Armor. In general Soft Armor is for pistol calibers and Hard Armor is considered rifle plates.  Here is a pretty decent rundown of the different levels and what they are designed for.

http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic_Protection_Levels.shtml

[JoJo]

 WOW you even answered the questions I wanted to know but didn't ask.
Thanks for the response and I hope this helps other UP members.

[pkveazey]

I probably need to keep my mouth shut on this issue, but I can't. I bought a Flack Jacket that is mostly made of Kevlar. It will stop most Pistol rounds and that damn thing is heavy as hell. I don't expect to run into nearly as many people carrying high power rifles than people carrying pistols. I have no plans to add those heavy metal or ceramic plates that cost about $100 per plate. There are a dozen different situations that could happen in a gun incident. If I come up against someone wearing body armor, my plan is to shoot low and get a leg shot. That will drop them to the ground and allow for a head shot. 

[Jackalope]

I've used both traditional soft and hard ballistic armor.  Recently I obtained some Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (UHMWPE)panels, and they are impressive.  They are about a tenth of the weight of a AR500 panel, yet they are rated NIJ III.  They also cost less than steel non spalling panels.  So a ballistic tactical vest with panels in the front and back went from around 25 lbs. down to less than 10 lbs.  Plus they're somewhat flexible, so you don't feel like constrained like the AR500 panels.  I guess a lot of your decision will be based upon expected threats, budget, and physical capabilities.  You won't be winning a 100 yard dash while wearing a tactical vest with multiple AR500 plates.

[JohnyMac]

Just my 2 cents. I do not have as much knowledge as some here on this site.

1) Do not buy AR500 steel plates. Although they will handle up to .308 win ball ammo (7.62x51 Nato) there is bullet
    splatter involved.
2) They weigh in at about 8#'s for a NIJ III+. Then there is the weight. 2 x 8 lbs = 16 pounds. Now you know why they
    are inexpensive. 
3) Ceramic plates absorb the bullet and much of the energy so there is less body trauma and little if any bullet splatter.
     They also weigh in at around 4 #'s or less. I would rather carry around 8 lbs vs. 16 lbs.

My set-up is two ceramic plates (front and back) with III soft armor behind each plate. This adds only ~1 lb per side but really helps in diminishing the trauma you will experience when your ceramics are hit PLUS the added protection adds up to and including .30/06 ball.

Now of course you could use the soft armor behind your A500 plates but you still get bullet splatter plus now your body armor weights ~18#'s. YIKES!

This is the company I have dealt with and have been happy with.

In closing: Save your money and buy ceramics with backers rather than buying AR500 steel plates.

[Erick]

I have level IV plates in a carrier but rarely wear them.
Also for those time I do want armor I am strongly considering going down to just a single of the light plates up front.

hit in the rear are possble but much less likely and taking off half the weight is well worth it. the water on my back will balance me out in weight front/rear.

[CJS06]

Previously I had Level IV plates that were approx 7 lbs each. I just recently got a pair of nice lightweight 3.8lb each Levels IVs to T&E. I have only worn them a total of 16 days so far but it is nice to cut the weight in half. I keep my carrier fairly slick and really like the thinner, lighter plates. 

[JohnyMac]

Sorry Chris, for us older folks, what is "T&E"? 
Thx

[Erick]

Sorry Chris, for us older folks, what is "T&E"? 
Thx

Test and Evaluate (Or Testing and Evaluation depending on the grammatical position in sentence of the acronym)

[Nemo]

If I come up against someone wearing body armor, my plan is to shoot low and get a leg shot. That will drop them to the ground and allow for a head shot. 

My plan also.  Most vests do not go much past the waist/belt line so a hip area hit is best alternative to center of mass.  Get the hip and they are on the ground and very likely bleeding heavily.   Maintain cover for 90 seconds and you should be good.

Nemo

[Erick]

Some 2 cent thoughts on the armor subject:

Even very good shooters tend to shoot inches lower than their point of aim when shooting quickly (like in a short range firefight).

So when faced with someone who you know or suspect is wearing a level III+ or Level IV you can still aim center mass (unless u have time+opportunity for a slow deliberate shot.. then of course head but I dont think thats what we are discussing)

As a result you will generally hit the pelvic area.
That area is just chock full of major blood vessels, nerves and other structures that when hit will result in quick incapaciation.
Perhaps even more so than some chest hits. A person for example can still fight for a while with a collapsed lung but not when he is paralyzed due to shattered pelvic bones.

So I will gladly accept a pelvic hit when faced with a well-armored opponent.
Also all but the utmost fit get slowed down by armor these 2nd order effects might be making hits easier, so there is that.

Another factoid to keep in mind.
The vast majority of common "armor vests" do not protect against carbine/rifle rounds even though their wearers might think so as many (most?) bad guys do not understand the vest rating system.

So if the armor looks soft on the guy you are fighting... and you have a rifle/carbine.. even w/o M855 you will generally be able to just shoot thru and be able to completely disregard it... hopefully wearing armor will change your opponents perceived risk calculus as well, giving you tactical opportunities you might not have had otherwise..

Bottom line is: If your opponent is wearing armor it should not intimidate you or change your course of action unduly as it is not a panacea.

[grizz]

If I come up against someone wearing body armor, my plan is to shoot low and get a leg shot. That will drop them to the ground and allow for a head shot. 

My plan also.  Most vests do not go much past the waist/belt line so a hip area hit is best alternative to center of mass.  Get the hip and they are on the ground and very likely bleeding heavily.   Maintain cover for 90 seconds and you should be good.

Nemo

I was thinking the head is an easier shot?

How many shots can a vest take before failure?
How many shots to the vest before the person wearing it is knocked off balance?

[Nemo]

Head is a much more mobile part of the body.  The hip is part of the foundation and does not move much unless the whole thing is moving.  The head can and does move around while the lower body remains stable.  Different sides of column or side, over, other side of car part, over or end of hood/trunk. Head/upper body moves.  Pelvis/legs fairly stable.

And the hip/lower abdomen is a larger target overall.  Even if you don't get the hip joint for structural damage you can substantially disable a leg with pelvic damage.  Lots of blood flow there too.

Nemo

[CJS06]

When wearing hard plates you need to remember that they are NOT covering the majority of your torso when worn properly.  An average plate size is 10"x12" (yes I know they vary by size, this is just an average). That puts the bottom of the plates around the bottom of your ribcage line. They are designed for protecting heart and lungs primarily.  There is no coverage of lower abdomen and sides (unless you use side plates).  If your plates  are lower they inhibit movement.

 As Nemo and Erick pointed out when facing someone wearing armor a lower abdomen/pelvic target is a good way to go. Lots of major Arteries, potential lower spinal, and pelvis joint. These are not instant "light switch" shots, but they will at the very least will destroy your opponents mobility and often lead to fatal outcomes.

Also as Erick pointed out just because your opponent is wearing armor just means you need to adjust how you deal with them. At the same time just because you have it on doesnt make you immune to bullets, dont let it effect your tactics and decision making.

Chris