Debate on the Pros/Cons of Manual Firearm Safeties

[mountainredneck2051]

your supposed to use the safeties on 1911's? 



Moderator's note: This thread split from a discussion of the Beretta M9 pistol. - rah45

[Kobalt]

your supposed to use the safeties on 1911's? 

Pretty sure.

[Reaver]

your supposed to use the safeties on 1911's? 

Pretty sure.

A lot of people like to carry cocked and locked safety on.

[special-k]

your supposed to use the safeties on 1911's? 

Pretty sure.

A lot of people like to carry cocked and locked safety on.

Personally, I won't buy a handgun that has a safety.  I tend toward Glock and classic Sig Sauers.  That's my advice to anyone considering buying a M9.

[sledge]

your supposed to use the safeties on 1911's? 

Pretty sure.

A lot of people like to carry cocked and locked safety on.

To me that depends on the gun.  I do carry one in the chamber in the Beretta Storm SC.  But it has a roll away firing pin type of safety.

In general I don't trust safeties.  I also don't care for handguns where I can't see the hammer.

 

[Reaver]

your supposed to use the safeties on 1911's? 

Pretty sure.

A lot of people like to carry cocked and locked safety on.

Personally, I won't buy a handgun that has a safety.  I tend toward Glock and classic Sig Sauers.  That's my advice to anyone considering buying a M9.

That is just stupid IMO.
Even if like sledge says you don't trust the safety, its a good thing to have.
I generally don't buy a firearm with out a safety. Seen to much dumbshit happen because of lack of safety. I'll do everything I can to not have one of those situations happen again around my youngen & love.

RvR

[rah45]

That is just stupid IMO.
Even if like sledge says you don't trust the safety, its a good thing to have.
I generally don't buy a firearm with out a safety. Seen to much dumbshit happen because of lack of safety. I'll do everything I can to not have one of those situations happen again around my youngen & love.

RvR

Not saying anything about your safety practices here, so don't be offended. 

I don't worry about manual safeties because I can trust myself not to train with my firearm unless it's unloaded or I'm at a range. Even if it's unloaded I practice as if it was loaded (okay, with dry firing you cannot always do that, but whenever I can I do). In my opinion, my wife and children will not be given a loaded weapon until they are capable of competently doing the same thing. If someone else is in my home/on my property with their firearm and they don't seem competent, they can leave the firearm in their vehicle or I will secure it, unloaded, in my own personal gun safe until they are ready to depart. If they don't like those requirements, they can leave. With those rules in place, I don't expect to have an AD. The closest I've ever come has been a couple of times when I've had an uncooperative holster...I quickly rectified that problem.

[v0dka]

I'll only carry a gun with out a safety if it has a trigger safety and back strap safety.
That being said I plan on buying a Walther pps and that only has a trigger safety. To compensate I'm not spending under 100$ for the holster and it will be hard and cover the trigger.
I cringe when i see or hear people carrying a gun with or without a holster by their belt buckle. Your just temping Murphy to much with that one.

[Reaver]

So you don't have others roaming around your house....? Child? Wife? Mother, father? 

I prefer to keep a hot mag non in the tube safety on.
I know the Capabilities  of my family members I practice with them daily.

Not having a safety on a firearm is just stupid. ( Even if you don't use it  personally ) At least it's there for the one occasion where you might need it.

[themighty9mm]

A potential downside to something striker fired, is no seconed strike. While overall tap rack and bang is the answer. What if the attacker is on top of you or get you from the side. Pull the trigger, and nothing happens. Often times on a bad rounds the primer will ignite on a seconed or third strike. Like I said not the answer to all problems but good luck doing a tap rack and bang while getting physical with someone. Also a note of safeties. Its purely a training issue. There have been many occasion where on duty officers have been saved by their safety. Bad guy grabs gun, to shoot the cop. Pull trigger and nothing happens. Give the cop just enough time to react and save his own ass. Just a couple things to think about.

[sledge]

That is just stupid IMO.
Even if like sledge says you don't trust the safety, its a good thing to have.
I generally don't buy a firearm with out a safety. Seen to much dumbshit happen because of lack of safety. I'll do everything I can to not have one of those situations happen again around my youngen & love.

RvR

I don't trust in safeties but I do insist on having one.  A friend bought it on a hunting trip to Georgia when a 700 went off even though the safety was on.  Dummy was putting the rifle away stock first in the back seat.  All my guns have safeties except an old 12 ga break open and my revolvers.

[Reaver]

That is just stupid IMO.
Even if like sledge says you don't trust the safety, its a good thing to have.
I generally don't buy a firearm with out a safety. Seen to much dumbshit happen because of lack of safety. I'll do everything I can to not have one of those situations happen again around my youngen & love.

RvR

I don't trust in safeties but I do insist on having one.  A friend bought it on a hunting trip to Georgia when a 700 went off even though the safety was on.  Dummy was putting the rifle away stock first in the back seat.  All my guns have safeties except an old 12 ga break open and my revolvers.

I actually lost a good friend to a muzzle loader... for some reason he capped up prior to getting out of the truck.
Sucks but He was asking for trouble and knew better. Judgment laps and stupid shit happens. This is why I have to have safety. All it takes is that one time gents.

[v0dka]

I just remember.
I almost got shot this hunting season because of a safety.
My friends gun looks like someone built it out of 3 different guns. If you put the safety on when the bolt is open then close it and take the safety off the gun will fire.
he didn't know that at the time and i had i bullet pass within 2 feet of me from 5 feet away.
fun experience.

[themighty9mm]

Safeties have also saved many people. When a bad guy grabs the gun but doesnt know how to work a safety

[rah45]

I cringe when i see or hear people carrying a gun with or without a holster by their belt buckle. Your just temping Murphy to much with that one.

I agree. If I carry without a holster and it's not pocket-sized, I carry at the small of my back, and I make sure I'm wearing a good belt. If I do carry like that, it's only to and from the car or some other similar scenario.

[rah45]

So you don't have others roaming around your house....? Child? Wife? Mother, father? 

I prefer to keep a hot mag non in the tube safety on.
I know the Capabilities  of my family members I practice with them daily.

Not having a safety on a firearm is just stupid. ( Even if you don't use it  personally ) At least it's there for the one occasion where you might need it.

No, I have a child and a wife. I just keep it in my gun safe if it's loaded. If I'm going somewhere or I suspect something, it's on my hip inside my holster or in my hand. If I'm going to just transfer to the car for transport and don't need a holster, I carry either in the hand or in small of back wedged by my belt. If I don't have immediate control of it, it is either locked in the safe or it is unloaded. That is the case with both of my long guns, also. The wife has had one briefing on the basic operation of the firearm, and knows that if it's loaded, it's hot and ready to go...as I always tell her, "Your trigger finger is your only real safety." I'd train with her more, but specifically regarding firearms she might as well be a modern liberal.

[Reaver]

Oh yeah, Mandatory Mother fucking Smiley Insert



- Here -  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

[themighty9mm]

I'm not necessarily for or against safeties. Though I can see how it would read I am more for them. Something else to be said about a good holster and/or safety. While you finger is the number one thing. Things can get cought inside trigger guards. Especially when you go to reholster. A peice of heavy string or a bit of ones shirt could relativly easily get cought. Just another fairly simple scenario where a mehanical safety could have helped avoid a AD

[special-k]

And how is it diferent than on a rifle....

Well, uh, rifles usually aren't carried in a holster.

It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it...A safety on a handgun is a huge liability.  I will not buy one with a safety.

[JohnyMac]

My 1911 is carried with round in the chamber, hammer coked and thumb safety on
My Browning Hi Pwr is carried with round in the chamber, hammer cocked and thumb safety on
My AR is carried with safety off
My Savage 99 is carried with safety on
My Marlin 336 is carried with hammer at half cock
My flint lock rifles are carried cocked with a leather sheath over the frizzen- On both rifles you have to
    set the trigger before you can fire
My cap lock rifles are carried at half cock and you have to set the set trigger

There has been more empty weapons that have killed people then loaded ones. How many times has someone handed you a weapon and said, "it's not loaded" when it has been. I refuse to accept a weapon handed to me unless you show to me it it is free and clear, no powder is in the pan or cap on the nipple.

Now with that said, it absolutely drives me crazy when watching a movie that the cops or hoodlums who are in a gun fight have to chamber a round before they shoot. What BS!

[sledge]

My 1911 is carried with round in the chamber, hammer coked and thumb safety on
My Browning Hi Pwr is carried with round in the chamber, hammer cocked and thumb safety on
My AR is carried with safety off

To each their own, there are plenty that do cocked and locked.  But not me.   I don't have that much faith in other people's designs and workmanship.  I trust myself but I don't trust safeties.

 

[rah45]

My AR is carried with safety off

That seems an odd deviation from your norm...why?

There has been more empty weapons that have killed people then loaded ones. How many times has someone handed you a weapon and said, "it's not loaded" when it has been. I refuse to accept a weapon handed to me unless you show to me it it is free and clear, no powder is in the pan or cap on the nipple.

Excellent point. I actually have pro-gun people who look at me funny when I insist on unloading and locking back the barrel for them before I had them the firearm for their perusal. If it's loaded, and they're about to shoot it, I either put it down and let them pick it up, unload and let them reload, or (if I REALLY trust them) hold by the slide and let them grip it by the handle, finger off the trigger.

Now with that said, it absolutely drives me crazy when watching a movie that the cops or hoodlums who are in a gun fight have to chamber a round before they shoot. What BS!

You ain't kiddin'!

[Sam1002057]

For a 1911, use it. The reason you can get away from a manually engaged safety on a glock, m9 or HK is that they have relatively long and heavier trigger pulls to reach the break point on the sear in comparison to 1911s.

Couple the short trigger travel and the light weights people put on their 1911's and you're asking for trouble without using the thumb safety.

It all comes down to a training issue. Thumb on thumb safety when establishing the grip in the draw, it doesn't get flicked to the off position until pressing out (sights on target) from the high compressed ready.  After engaging, it gets put back on safe after coming to high compressed ready before you scan.

No matter what the gun... Safety on while carried. It doesn't take you any more time to take it off when needed. If you can pull the trigger under stress, you can certainly manipulate the safety on and off as needed.

For the record, grip safetys sre dumb.I pin my grip safetys on the 1911, and only leave the thumb active.

[rah45]

I think that's one very important reason that I like the DA/SA action of the Sig Sauer pistols. I don't have to worry about a safety, because the DA trigger pull is heavy enough that it would be difficult to manipulate unless you meant to do so. However, you can still manually activate SA trigger mode by pulling back the hammer or by firing the first shot in DA mode. So, for me, it still has the nice SA action, but still has a safety...sort of. It seems to fit the K.I.S.S. principle, in my opinion. My only safety is my finger.

[Rail Driver]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I won't carry a 1911 without a manual safety on and a round in the chamber. Safety off, no round in the chamber and it's slightly less useless than a pointy stick with a thug charging at you. Safety off, round in the chamber is silly for obvious reasons, and lowering the hammer on a 1911 over a live round is plain dangerous.