Thoughts Gents?

[Nemo]

Other than made in China? 

Thoughts on design? Setup? 

Nemo

https://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Backpack-Breathable-Adjustable-Lightweight/dp/B08398RT24

[Nemo]

And the 2 below.  THey seem to be the same thing from same dealer but one is $24 cheaper than the other.

Overall thoughts as to quality/usability/reliability?

Commentary on these vests all indicate they are very useful and capable for soft plates or AR500 plates.

Nemo

https://smile.amazon.com/Barbarians-Tactical-Training-Adjustable-Lightweight/dp/B07H2TD88P


https://smile.amazon.com/Barbarians-chaleco-paintball-exteriores-ajustable/dp/B07FSJY93G/

[pkveazey]

I bought a surplus Flack Vest and that thing is really heavy and I don't mean heavy duty. It is heavy to wear. I paid more for it than I should have but not insanely too much. Maybe $25 too much. My thought was, "Am I more likely to be shot buy a pistol or a rifle?" The Flack Vest is supposed to stop just about any pistol round but not a high powered rifle round. Yes, it should stop a 22 Long Rifle with no problem. If I get hit by an AK or AR I'm screwed. I looked at the add and its not something that I would be interested in. $100? I don't think so. If you add those very expensive plates you're going to be into some real money.

[grizz]

I bought a surplus Flack Vest and that thing is really heavy and I don't mean heavy duty. It is heavy to wear. I paid more for it than I should have but not insanely too much. Maybe $25 too much. My thought was, "Am I more likely to be shot buy a pistol or a rifle?" The Flack Vest is supposed to stop just about any pistol round but not a high powered rifle round. Yes, it should stop a 22 Long Rifle with no problem. If I get hit by an AK or AR I'm screwed. I looked at the add and its not something that I would be interested in. $100? I don't think so. If you add those very expensive plates you're going to be into some real money.

Your thoughts on price may change as bullets start coming your way

[Jackalope]

The mid priced Barbarian vest appears ok.  I'd go with the desert tan color, but that's me.  Supposedly, it'll take plates up to 11 x 14".  Put a couple of AR500 plates in it, and you're good to go.  It will be better than nothing.  Steel plates are heavy, so you'll need to become accustomed to wearing the vest with the plates in it.  For a while, I had a plate carrier that also had side plates too.  It was just too heavy for me to wear and be active.  Now I have a couple different carriers, one of which has HDPE plates, which are much lighter than traditional steel plates.

[Nemo]

As far as the inserts, I have been looking at the site below.  Not necessarily those specific but shape and specs.
Top line, second from left each page.

Nemo

https://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-body-armor/level-iiia-body-armor.html

and

https://www.ar500armor.com/body-armor/hard-armor.html

[Jackalope]

You're going to want III+ minimum, if you want to stop a typical AR-15 5.56 shot.  It depends upon what threats you envision encountering.  If you're going to be going up against gang bangers with handguns, then IIIA is sufficient.  However, if you're facing opponents armed with AR's, shotguns,  or battle rifles you're going to want to have the best plate possible.  In addition to the threat level, you also need to consider your physical condition and what activities you'll be doing while wearing the carrier/plates.  If you're just sitting at a stationary location, then the plate weight isn't as important.  However, if you're doing patrol work or sentry duty, then a lighter plate helps with your mobility.  Thick, heavy steel plates will impede activity. Ceramic plates are much lighter, but much more expensive.  Polyethylene panels are lighter than steel and cheaper than ceramic plate.

      For doing chores around the homestead, I went with soft body armor (kevlar) with polyethylene insert plates.  For possible active kinetic situations I went with AR500 III+ plates in a plate carrier.  I made sure everyone here at our homestead has at least soft body armor. 

      If you're wearing body armor, then you should also consider obtaining a ballistic helmet. 

     

[grizz]

I'd like to hear more about helmets.

[pkveazey]

I bought a Kevlar Military Surplus Helmet. It also is heavy as Hell but when the bullets start flying I don't think I'm going to care how heavy it is. I'm also going to offer this advice because its something I never thought about until my Father, who fought in WW2, told me. He said that Helmets like to fall off of your head but when you wear one you have to decide when to use the chin strap and when to not use the chin strap. In normal firefight use, you use the chin strap. However, when there are explosions going off all around you, you never buckle up that chin strap because the concussion shock wave can get under that helmet and rip you head off. Its better to have the shock wave shoot that Helmet 20 feet into the air than carry your head with it.

[CJS06]

Composite plate prices are starting to come down. If at all possible look for a set of Ceramic or Dyneema IIIA or IV plates.  They will be significantly better for you than AR500 steel.  The spalling problem with steel plates is a real thing.

Chris

[Erick]

I'd like to hear more about helmets.

I really feel ballistic protection in Helmets is over rated.
This is why:

- But the the military wears ballistic helmets?
Yes, for the indirect fire threat..(tube artillery, mortars and the like..) Thats why pre-GWOT quite a few US Light Infantry outfits would not always wear them especially in the Scout role (not looking to engage major forces.. kinda like a prepper.....)

- Are you as a Prepper likely to be hit by indirect fire? Why nothing is impossible, but I think we can all agree its not very likely at all.. And even then, you would never attempt to "hold the line" against tube artillery but would use mobility as your protection like an insurgent.. so Certainly the indirect fire threat doesnt not exist in a meaningful way, that we cant spare the expanse and weight of a ballistic helmet and put it somewhere else..

- But what about protection..? Ballistic will protect me against bullets right? My head is pretty important...
To this I reply: Ballistic helmets dont protect against rifle fire, your primary threat so why bother with the increased expense, weight and reduced situational awareness? Especially the last can be very dangerous..?
"Well what about handguns then?"
To this I reply.. Think about it... handgun is a close range weapon. From the front your helmet doesnt cover your face anyway so its no use there...... and from the rear if someone is close enough to shoot at you from the rear for a headshot,.. he has all sorts of options where else to hit you... so the utility of rear ward anti-handgun ballistic protection is more than dubious..

So what should we do?
- Easy, Bump Helmets. The airsofters wear some pretty good bump helmets.. many are camoed many have mounts for NVGs. They are basically like bicycle helmets.. so light you forget you wear them... and your situational awareness from field of vision in unimpaired.
And they will protect you against Bumps.. and that can be a pretty big deal when you jump around and dropping up and down around trees or rooms or, well anything... hitting your head on something is dangerous... and the most common protect effect demanded of helmets.

Example, Hi-end bump helmet:
https://shop.gentexcorp.com/ops-core-fast-bump-high-cut-helmet/
Economy but still servicable:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lancer-Tactical-Bump-Type-Helmet-A-TACS-FG-M-L-20262/313012546578?hash=item48e1006c12:g:zBkAAOSwdAleWM6t
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FMA-High-Quality-Tactical-Airsoft-Protective-EXF-BUMP-Camouflage-Helmet-A-TACS/113486976009?hash=item1a6c59d409:g:u3UAAOSwA3dYmZA2

[Nemo]

I never thought of the rationale behind helmet.

Nemo

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Tactical+Bump+Type+Helmet&ref=nb_sb_noss

[pkveazey]

HELMETS: I have a Kevlar Helmet and it may or may not be the perfect protection. Wearing it does not make me feel like Superman but it does give me a bit of comfort when it comes to small caliber weapons and glancing strikes. Uh, Oh.... Here comes another WW2 story. My Father told me about being hit in the helmet. His helmet was a steel pot with a helmet liner. He said that he was lying prone and facing the enemy when an enemy bullet pierced his steel pot, rode between the pot and liner and came out the back and the bullet landed square in the middle of his back and burned the shit out of him. If that bullet had been just a little more straight on, it would have also pieced the liner and killed him. Heavy or not, I'm wearing my helmet.

[Jackalope]

I agree PK, I would rather have one and have some protection rather than none at all.  Having said that, I have a bump helmet and a ballistic helmet, each has their place, depending upon the threat level.  Plus, helmets are useful for a place to mount NVD's.

[Trail Ninja]

 

You're going to want III+ minimum, if you want to stop a typical AR-15 5.56 shot.  It depends upon what threats you envision encountering.  If you're going to be going up against gang bangers with handguns, then IIIA is sufficient.  However, if you're facing opponents armed with AR's, shotguns,  or battle rifles you're going to want to have the best plate possible.  In addition to the threat level, you also need to consider your physical condition and what activities you'll be doing while wearing the carrier/plates.  If you're just sitting at a stationary location, then the plate weight isn't as important.  However, if you're doing patrol work or sentry duty, then a lighter plate helps with your mobility.  Thick, heavy steel plates will impede activity. Ceramic plates are much lighter, but much more expensive.  Polyethylene panels are lighter than steel and cheaper than ceramic plate.

      For doing chores around the homestead, I went with soft body armor (kevlar) with polyethylene insert plates.  For possible active kinetic situations I went with AR500 III+ plates in a plate carrier.  I made sure everyone here at our homestead has at least soft body armor. 

      If you're wearing body armor, then you should also consider obtaining a ballistic helmet. 

   

[Trail Ninja]

 

I'd like to hear more about helmets.

I really feel ballistic protection in Helmets is over rated.
This is why:

- But the the military wears ballistic helmets?
Yes, for the indirect fire threat..(tube artillery, mortars and the like..) Thats why pre-GWOT quite a few US Light Infantry outfits would not always wear them especially in the Scout role (not looking to engage major forces.. kinda like a prepper.....)

- Are you as a Prepper likely to be hit by indirect fire? Why nothing is impossible, but I think we can all agree its not very likely at all.. And even then, you would never attempt to "hold the line" against tube artillery but would use mobility as your protection like an insurgent.. so Certainly the indirect fire threat doesnt not exist in a meaningful way, that we cant spare the expanse and weight of a ballistic helmet and put it somewhere else..

- But what about protection..? Ballistic will protect me against bullets right? My head is pretty important...
To this I reply: Ballistic helmets dont protect against rifle fire, your primary threat so why bother with the increased expense, weight and reduced situational awareness? Especially the last can be very dangerous..?
"Well what about handguns then?"
To this I reply.. Think about it... handgun is a close range weapon. From the front your helmet doesnt cover your face anyway so its no use there...... and from the rear if someone is close enough to shoot at you from the rear for a headshot,.. he has all sorts of options where else to hit you... so the utility of rear ward anti-handgun ballistic protection is more than dubious..

So what should we do?
- Easy, Bump Helmets. The airsofters wear some pretty good bump helmets.. many are camoed many have mounts for NVGs. They are basically like bicycle helmets.. so light you forget you wear them... and your situational awareness from field of vision in unimpaired.
And they will protect you against Bumps.. and that can be a pretty big deal when you jump around and dropping up and down around trees or rooms or, well anything... hitting your head on something is dangerous... and the most common protect effect demanded of helmets.

Example, Hi-end bump helmet:
https://shop.gentexcorp.com/ops-core-fast-bump-high-cut-helmet/
Economy but still servicable:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lancer-Tactical-Bump-Type-Helmet-A-TACS-FG-M-L-20262/313012546578?hash=item48e1006c12:g:zBkAAOSwdAleWM6t
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FMA-High-Quality-Tactical-Airsoft-Protective-EXF-BUMP-Camouflage-Helmet-A-TACS/113486976009?hash=item1a6c59d409:g:u3UAAOSwA3dYmZA2

[JohnyMac]

Interesting old post.

IMO,

1) Flack vests or plate carriers...I do not plan on wearing body armor unless I am doing CQB. I trained clearing buildings while wearing mine, (2- 5 lb ceramic plates one for back and the other for front) and after awhile they were more of a nuisance to warrant wearing while doing normal patrols.

2) If you sport night vision, bump helmets are a must in my opinion. I hate skull crushers and have used both at night. Another benefit of the bump helmet is, well... bumping your head at night. On a limb, wood beam, etc.  Don't ask me how I know. 

Now helmets limit your use of muffs. Yes I know you can fasten Peltor type to your helmet but you loose a bit of the hearing protection. If you are using muffs for coms then use a TASC1 Headset with a U94 PTT switch. Here is a link over at Brushbeater  if you want to check it out. https://brushbeater.org/2023/07/01/tasc-headsets-in-stock/ and or https://brushbeater.store/products/tasc-headset-u94-push-to-talk

So there you go, my 3 cents worth. 3 cents now due to inflation. 

[Felix]

Hope this doesn't land in "Off TOpic Land"... but I have a question where acquiring such accoutrements as are being talked about is concerned.
Unless purchased with cash (or barter), everything we bring home or have shipped to us comes with a neon trail of electronic/charge card/registration/banking bread crumbs, leading right to our door.    The address our government has "on file".
I'm still looking to buy a thermal scope (soon as divorce is settled and the accounts are siloed) but already have twinges from the trail created from suppressor purchase.
How much can a weapons/tactical minded person acquire before 3-letter agencies move their file up a notch?
Should I spend the time/fuel to pick up NVDs in person for cash or is that one degree of paranoia too far?

[JohnyMac]

I have dealt with a lot of companies over the years paying with cash and credit cards. Bottom-line first, not one I chose to pay cash with turned me down. Cash cash and cash used to buy USPS checks. You do not need to supply ID to acquire USPS counter checks.

Shipping is another deal. You can have anything shipped to a drop. One example is...If you have a lawyer, they make a great drop location. There are others that come to mind that I will not bring up here.

My favorite place to acquire goods for cash is at gun shows. My second favorite is acquaintances met during training classes.

 

[Felix]

 
will have to see attorney for disposition of assets after I'm gone, will tack on his receiving address, conditionally.   ;-)
Who knows... he's "old Arizona" might be tickled.    (parts of my lineage here trace back to Geronimo days)

[pkveazey]

Felix: When I first started Prepping, I used my credit card a lot. Several, (more than 5) years ago I stopped using my credit card for any ammo purchases. I have never used a check or credit card for any precious metals purchases and never will. I'm not very concerned about credit card purchases of food and household goods but I even keep that to a minimum. The only thing that I can offer about the Government is, "Never underestimate the agencies' desire to track every purchase of everything of everybody."

[CJS06]

I have dealt with a lot of companies over the years paying with cash and credit cards. Bottom-line first, not one I chose to pay cash with turned me down. Cash cash and cash used to buy USPS checks. You do not need to supply ID to acquire USPS counter checks.

Shipping is another deal. You can have anything shipped to a drop. One example is...If you have a lawyer, they make a great drop location. There are others that come to mind that I will not bring up here.

My favorite place to acquire goods for cash is at gun shows. My second favorite is acquaintances met during training classes.

 

A simple work around if it is helpful is to pay cash for a prepaid credit card.  You can then use this to purchase items that need to be shipped. There is obviously still a record of the shipment, but at least there is not an electronic trace of your purchase.


Chris