Author Topic: Charcoal for heat  (Read 1865 times)

hjmoosejaw

  • Guest
Charcoal for heat
« on: December 20, 2012, 11:25:45 PM »
I was thinking, for an emergency pack. Like if you were stranded somewhere for a couple of hours, (or possibly overnight) and everything was wet, so wood to burn would be difficult to come by, you make a shelter with a tarp. Have a small coffee can (with holes drilled around the bottom edge) filled with match light charcoal, and maybe a couple of dozen briquettes vacuum sealed in plastic. You could cook on it, and then use it for heat, throughout the night. ( 4 or 5 briquettes at a time,with proper ventilation of course) I see all of these homemade heaters on Youtube. Do you guys think the weight and space displacement would be worth it? Are there any drawbacks that you know of? I'm thinking something like this for my girls to have in their emergency bag in the car. It would be simple and reliable. What do you guys think? Any thoughts and input would be appreciated.

Offline thatGirl

  • Senior Prepper
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 01:23:36 AM »
Personally, I suggest a tarp and a rope to string it up with overhead, two emergency bivy bags (just bought a couple at REI $15 each, compress down to a fist-sized ball), and sleeping bags, skip using fire for heat.  I also like to keep some trash bags around to keep gear dry while moving from car to tarp in the rain.  If you really want them to be able to heat food or water (those packs of instant cider are nice), get a little MSR pocket-rocket camp stove or something along those lines (one that works at your altitude).  Seems to me like briquettes smell like BBQ, a smell that attracts pesky critters like raccoons, bears, and humans.  Also means you gotta be careful not to melt yourself to the thing during the night, setting yourself on fire is a good way to make a bad situation worse...
 
I've spent a number of years learning all of these lessons, some repeatedly.  I recall one particular camping trip that started with me tying off my clothes and sleeping bag in trash bags before putting them in my backpack to keep em dry.  TG laughed at me and asked where I'd learned to do that- it doesn't rain in NM.  I got mad, unpacked all my shit and said fine, I'll pack my bag your way with no provisions for weather.  We got to the mountains, it was pouring down rain.  We sat in our buddies truck sipping whiskey for an hour or two before I got antsy and started calling people pussies till I talked them into hiking in two miles to the camp spot, still raining.  We made it to our spot and set up camp- TG ran a tarp on the diagonal from a rock outcropping to give us a space to hang out in.  We piled rocks to sit on and lean against, and rolled our sleeping pads out, the only gear we had that wasn't soaked.  TG ran a string-line along the dry strip under the outcropping off of some cleverly balanced sticks and we were able to hang all of our clothes and sleeping bags to dry out. 

At dinner time we quickly learned that the camp stove we brought was no good at the altitude we were at, 9,000 ft.  We scrounged up all of the dead wood we could find and eventually got a split-wood fire going in what had become sleet by then- didn't want to start a fire under the outcropping for fear of the rocks expanding and cracking over our heads.  I managed to cook us a decent spaghetti dinner, we played cards and drank whiskey in our cozy little tarp shelter for two days while it poured on us.  Our sleeping bags dried out enough before bedtime to keep us from getting hypothermia, and TG now puts his clothes and sleeping bag in trash bags, although he still hasn't figured out that I'm always right!  ;)

Here's a little known fact, the warmest you will ever be in a sleeping bag is when you are naked.  I spent years freezing my as off wrapped in layers of clothing, I think your clothes just act like a heat sink absorbing the heat from the bag and from your body.  If you cut out the middle man, the bag radiates your body heat back to you and wicks away moisture so you don't end up freezing from your own sweat.  This is one instance that you don't have to claim senility to strip down, unless you're camping in a public park!  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.
Winston Churchill

You have freedom when you're easy in your harness.
Robert Frost

Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday.
John Wayne

Offline special-k

  • Peasant Extraordinaire
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2074
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 02:01:04 AM »
@hj 
Check this out:
WINTER EMERGENCY CAR HEATER
"It wouldn't do any good.  I've had the shit beat out of me a lot of times.  I just replenish with more shit."  - Billy McBride

Offline JohnyMac

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 15159
  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2012, 10:29:54 AM »
hj, I am not a fan of charcoal bricketts in a close environment no matter how well you think things are ventilated. For cooking like what TGrl wrote; you usually can gather enough wood to run a small rocket stove.

My buddy and I use to do A LOT of winter camping. In the winter we used a true 2 man tent. Not a 3 man because we wanted the extra space a two man Kelty light weight tent. Once we ate we would get undressed down to our long underwear; put on a knit hat and climbed into our sleeping bags. To TGrl's point more clothes in cold conditions hurt you rater than help you.

My buddy had fabricated a clamp on plate from a metal soap dish. We would afix it to the tent pole and we would put a candle (Taper) on it and light it. This may sound crazy but that little candle along with the body heat that escaped from our bags would bring the temp up enough so you wouldn't see your breath anymore. We would blow it out when it was time to sleep.

Oh, I almost forgot...We would both eat a chocolate bar before we blew out the candle.

Another thing we use to do was not drink anything after dinner. There is nothing worse than crawling out of a warm sleeping bag to go outside to take a leak. But if you had to 9 x's out of 10 your partner might as well do like wise as you will wake him up anyway.   
 
Keep abreast of J6 arrestees at https://americangulag.org/ Donate if you can for their defense.

Offline thatGirl

  • Senior Prepper
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 12:44:41 PM »
Hey JM, was the chocolate bar just you guys enjoying the finer things in life, or was there another point like kicking up your metabolism?

HJ, I forgot to mention that if you get one of those little MSR stoves for the emergency pack, they use these sturdy, cool canisters of white gas, about water bottle size.  The awesome thing about having that canister of white gas in your emergency kit aside from having the stove to cook on, is that you can poor a tiny bit of that gas onto your kindling if it's a bit damp providing enough kick to burn past the wet bark and get your fire started.  Of course lighters are always good, and you can coat some strike anywhere matches in wax to water proof them and keep em around, but I don't trust either one enough not to keep a little flint kit handy.
All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.
Winston Churchill

You have freedom when you're easy in your harness.
Robert Frost

Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday.
John Wayne

Offline thatGuy

  • Kind Lover
  • Community Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3454
  • Karma: +12/-0
    • thatGuy's youtube
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2012, 02:52:52 PM »
The wife and I have been thinking about this and over the course of our discussions we come to the conclusion that because of our foundation as hikers we think of things differently.

As example we think about the weight of a sleeping bag as well as the insulating ablity, this doesn't help us give out good advice about car kits. Heavy bags that will do the job just fine never get our consideration because of the weight.

We also own a bunch of really gucci equipment because of the conditions we know we will encounter, because of our situation we think this gear is 'mandatory,' but it really isn't.

I don't know why we are hooked on the idea that they will have a car but lets assume that they do, It makes it easier to think about because weight is no longer a consideration :)

You can get really good cold weather bags for next to nothing (by comparison) if you don't mind what they weigh. I've noticed that I say things like this or follow my own though process without much justification and that isn't fair to you guys because I don't do a very good job of explaining my thought process.

The current theory is that it is easier and more effective to preserve the heat we make rather than warming our environment. From our stand point this has many added benefits, greatly reduced signature due to the lack of fire light and smoke, reduced exposer to our enviroment because you're not fetching wood, reduced exposer to burning youself or gear, no more smelling like smoke, no more acrid smoke in the eyes and lungs and it is by are and a way a lot easier to roll out a bag then chasing down dry wood. I know your idea was to bring fuel with you in the form of charcoal brickettes so some of those concerns are not your's but some are.

I well and truely believe that a good sleeping bag coupled with a tarp, bivy bag and ground pad is the way to stay warm. To this point everyone has said "buy, buy buy" and I know that sucks because you've got a jones to be creative and industrious and buying things doesn't slack that thirst. The reason for the "buy, buy buy" mentality is that some of these idems can't be made at the same quality by the average Joe but some can! Tarps involve very simple sewing (maybe glue or tape) and can be made with a higher quality than most can afford to buy and the same holds true for bivy bags.

If we look at tarps and bivy bags they are essentially the same thing but shaped differently. One hangs between you and the rain as a shield the other is wrapped around you. The material used serves the same purpose.. keeping you dry. Tyvek is a wonderfully light weight option that is very cost effective when compaired to the 'high tech' solution of sil-nylon. Neither one breaths worth a fuck and both are light weight. Gortex is another solution that in my opinion isn't worth the extra money as a tarp because you don't need a tarp to breath but in a bivy bag it is a wonderful materiel.

We haven't talked at all about condensation but if you crawl into an SOL bivy (best tech), trash bag (best value!), space blanket bivy (loudest) or just use a sheet of plastic (most useful) you will know all about it in short order! What happens is your hot warm breath (RvR) hits that cold plastic and loses it's ability to hold the moisture and bam.. cold wet plastic on your face. Not a good time.

Another area were you creativity can really shine is ground pads or puss pads as the door kickers like to call them. These are manditory equipment if you are even thinking about sleeping soundly. You dig, sleeping bags work because of the loft of the insulation i.e. isolated pockets of air. When you put your body weight on them they compress... which destroys the insulating value. To counter that we use Closed Cell Foam pads. They are cheap, water proof and indestructable which is nice. I use a thin USGI pad because it is wider and then a Wal-Mart Special because it is thick and if it is going to be cold I roll a piece of Reflextex over that to reflect my body heat back at me. There is no end to the configuration and modifications that folks have made to foam pads over the years. As example I use two because the dirt they are making these days is harder than the dirt of my youth ;) Some times I only roll the Wal-Mart pad down to the knees to keep me from rolling over in the night other times I put my pack under all that to raise my feet and calves to ease swelling.

I ramble and rave.. look up how to's on bivy bag construction and tarp making. There are some fantastic options from the Ray Way tarp tent to sil-nylon multi-cam unit and every wild contraption between. Fire is so 1800s man..  8)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 03:04:05 PM by thatGuy »

Offline JohnyMac

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 15159
  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2012, 03:42:52 PM »
Yes TGrl, we ate the chocolate because we had read and in truth, experienced that our metabolism ran a bit higher with the chocolate.

Now this sounds crazy however I am not a big fan of chocolate - I can take it or leave it. With that said, my buddy use to eat a chocolate bar about 30 minutes before he got up in the morning too. I thought he was just being decadent  but in hindsight maybe not. Me I just wanted hot coffee.  :))

To what TG was writing above; we used close celled sleeping mats. The first year I had one only long enough for my upper torso. The next winter I switched to a 7' long pad. It was the smartest thing I could have done.

In the summer we didn't use a tent; we used two tarps thrown over a rope. Two because each one of us carried one. Weight, weight, weight! We would tie one end of line to a tree (Pine if available do to the boughs above - extra rain protection) about four to five feet high and the other end to a stake in the ground. Put the two tarps over the line, folded the extra on the ground into the center of the shelter and then ran the extra line laying on the ground at the stake back to the tree. The second line captured the tarp so it wouldn't fall down. Then we would put a few 'file clips' along the line for extra grip. Laid some pine tree boughs on the ground if available and rolled out our mats. If rain was emanate or we were going to stay for a couple of days we would dig a trench around the lean-to for water runoff.

One summer we were backpacking up in the Adirondacks east of Brant Lake. We made camp next to a beaver pond as described above. About the second day into our camp out at O-dark thirty a bear decided to visit us. He /she stuck their head into our lean-to and apparently my buddy was awake and saw / heard the bruin. I woke up to my buddy firing his Cap N' ball .44 cal. dragoon pistol in the air about three feet from my head!

I don't know who was more startled...The bear or me.  :))

We jumped up and ran outside our shelter and started banging pots and pans. At first I thought he was full of it. However in the flash light beam we could see bear prints in the soft soil near where we had cooked the previous nights meal.

It probably wasn't needed but we stood watch until dawn the next day. Funny shit!
 
Keep abreast of J6 arrestees at https://americangulag.org/ Donate if you can for their defense.

Offline thatGuy

  • Kind Lover
  • Community Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3454
  • Karma: +12/-0
    • thatGuy's youtube
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2012, 12:07:23 AM »


The hell you say.

hjmoosejaw

  • Guest
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2012, 12:12:14 AM »
A heck of a lot of good info above. I was thinking more of outside of the car, but that little alcohol burner is pretty neat, and conserving body heat before it is lost, is very important. My girls (teenagers in general) can't comprehend that Winter gets cold, and it takes more clothes to keep warm. Then, when they get cold, it's too late, and that much harder to get warm again. (not to mention all the bitching about it)

hjmoosejaw

  • Guest
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2012, 12:34:07 AM »


The hell you say.



Is this the same girl that said, it's best to be naked in a sleeping bag? She looks pretty bundled up to me. Now get back out there, and don't come back in until you get it right. LOL!

Offline thatGuy

  • Kind Lover
  • Community Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3454
  • Karma: +12/-0
    • thatGuy's youtube
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2012, 12:44:43 AM »
No its a different one... don't tell the mrs. that I lurk picture on the interwebz of chicks who are slightly more granola than her :P

hjmoosejaw

  • Guest
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2012, 12:54:14 AM »
No its a different one... don't tell the mrs. that I lurk picture on the interwebz of chicks who are slightly more granola than her :P


I wondered. Cause I thought that little pic on the side of the page, (avatar ?) was her,but it didn't look like the same girl. But the avatar is small, and it's hard to tell. So where's the one of T-girl in a sleeping bag? LOL!

Offline thatGirl

  • Senior Prepper
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2012, 01:33:01 AM »
That's not me boys!  I told TG that everyone would assume it was me and to post a pic of a super hot chick...  She's cute, but a little too earthy...

Nice pic TG, I like how you use that fence to keep her from getting away... or maybe she insists you sleep on the other side.   :))

It's funny you should say that Walker.  Early in the relationship I tried to fence TG in, now I try to fence him out, but that asshole carries wire cutters! :))

I wondered. Cause I thought that little pic on the side of the page, (avatar ?) was her,but it didn't look like the same girl. But the avatar is small, and it's hard to tell. So where's the one of T-girl in a sleeping bag? LOL!

One of these days I will post a pic or a vid, I actually made a DIY video for the antiseptic ointment, but I still need to edit it.  I certainly won't be posting any pics of me in my sleeping bag, but if you all ask me nicely I might be willing to post one of TG in his!  ;)
All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.
Winston Churchill

You have freedom when you're easy in your harness.
Robert Frost

Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday.
John Wayne

hjmoosejaw

  • Guest
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2012, 01:46:32 AM »
Quote
I certainly won't be posting any pics of me in my sleeping bag, but if you all ask me nicely I might be willing to post one of TG in his!

STOP,STOP,STOP! I can't hear you, I can't hear you!

Offline thatGirl

  • Senior Prepper
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2012, 02:10:07 PM »
I changed my profile pick to give you a slightly better idea of what I look like, so you all can get TG's back if he ever gets confused and starts posting pictures of him with his girlfriend.  BTW, I'm the hairy one on the right! :))

I was trying to find a picture to upload, but apparently I'm always the one taking the photos and in the few we have, I'm usually wearing crazy hats that obscure my face like a comic book villain.  If not for the fury bomber on my head, you'd see that I'm actually a blond unlike the gal in the sleeping bag.

An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, wearing a ghillie suit...

All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.
Winston Churchill

You have freedom when you're easy in your harness.
Robert Frost

Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday.
John Wayne

hjmoosejaw

  • Guest
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2012, 02:49:33 PM »
Cool Picture of you and TG.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 06:28:58 PM by hjmoosejaw »

hjmoosejaw

  • Guest
Re: Charcoal for heat
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2012, 06:27:28 PM »
 I found this on Youtube, and thought it was pretty cool.

 
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 06:30:26 PM by hjmoosejaw »

Offline thatGuy

  • Kind Lover
  • Community Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3454
  • Karma: +12/-0
    • thatGuy's youtube