Bug-Out Location: Are You part of the 5%

[JohnyMac]

Here is another JohnyMac article for unchainedpreppers to read while contemplating the lint in their belly button. To read complete with pictures and links embedded in the article, click on the attached pdf file.

Bug-Out Location: Are You part of the 5% 
By JohnyMac

Setting the Stage
Many moons ago I was heavily involved in the blue water sailboat cruising scene. My XYL and I lived on our sailboat and cruised up and down the west and east coats of North America on Mad Max, a Baba 30 sailboat. During the eleven years on board we became preppers by default as when you are days off shore or in the wilds of British Columbia, there are no chandleries for parts or places to top-off one’s food supplies. Remember the adage, “one is none and two is one”. Anyway, I facilitated a bunch of cruising seminars for the folks that wanted to go off shore and sail away into the setting sun not unlike Joshua Slocum in 1895. 

At the beginning of each seminar I would have each of the attendees state their name, the boat they owned or wanted to buy, and where they were going to cruise to. A lot of folks wanted to cruise around the globe while some just wanted to cruise off to a far away country like the United Kingdom or Tahiti. Once the intros were done I would boldly state, “only 5% of you will ever leave the dock”. As Shakespeare wrote in his play, “Sir Thomas Moore”, Would I wear so fair on my journey! the first stretch is the worst, me thinks.

Getting Started
In 1996 the XYL, our cat Max, and I got transferred to the Northeast from Florida and decided to live in a house over the water rather than live on a boat on the water. Winter in Rhode Island played a large part in our decision. Yes, I guess we had become fair-weather sailors. Our new abode in Rhode Island brought us back close to family for the first time in 15-years from roving around the west and east coast seaboard. On one of our now more frequent family get-togethers my brother and I decided to buy a piece of property located in a relatively central point between both our family’s. Before we started our search, we sat down and brainstormed with an actual flip chart, on what we were looking for in our new acquisition. The items that eventually floated to the top were:

1) No more than a four-hour drive from either our current homes,
2) Friendly Second Amendment state and location,
3) Affordable,
4) Remote with a lot of wooded land around us, not necessarily our land, and 
5) Available water; Ponds, streams, and aquafers.   
 
With us living in Rhode Island, and my brother living in Southeast Pennsylvania, and with not so friendly 2A states in-between, Pennsylvania shouted out, “pick me…Pick me!” Once we decided on the state, we took 
the driving time into account and picked a county in Northeast Pennsylvania which was a 4-hour drive for me and a 3 ½ hour drive for my brother. During Memorial Day weekend 2005, both families met up in our county of choice to roam around a bit, talk to and then hire a real-estate agent.   

We interviewed a few real-estate agents and settled on one who turned out to be only interested in lining her pockets at our expense which I will address later in this article. While looking for land in our county of choice we stayed at a tavern that offered rooms to hunters and skiers in the winter. When not driving around with our real-estate agent we spent a lot of time talking to the locals at the taverns bar. This was the most valuable time we spent. The locals knew a lot more than our agent and to the man, they told us we were looking in the wrong county. Folks from New York City and Northern New Jersey were buying up land like drunken sailors there. With that bit of information, we asked our agent to look west one county from the original one we opted for. She was not stoked with the idea but relented.

By September our agent had lost interest in us, so my brother started looking at newly listed pieces of property in the newest county of our interest. My brother started surfing the net and one day found a piece of land that met all our criteria. That weekend, he took a ride north to look at the property and was very enthused at what he saw. The challenge was it would be a 5-hour drive for us and only a 3-hour drive for him. Oh well nothing is ever perfect is it. 
The following weekend found my wife and I on the road traveling west to the property my brother was so enthused about. Six hours later we met our agent at the property, and she reluctantly showed us the property. It turned out that although this listing was listed with her parent company, it was not her listing hence less commission for her. 

I walked the property and made an offer on the spot, $10,000- less than the asking price. After negotiations, which lasted a week, the seller and us settled on a price $6,000- less than the asking one for a total price of $2,300- an acre for 34-acres. The original idea was for us to sub divide the property into four sections to sell these parcels for a profit which would cover our original outlay. We did not do this in the end for several reasons which I will not go into right now. 
Currently, property in our county like what we bought is running between $1,800- $2,500- an acre which is still relatively cheap. One county west from us is even cheaper. So it does pay to shop around and be flexible.
 
In closing this chapter, you do not need to buy 34-acres. One acre would be perfect if you are surrounded by a lot of rural land and of course, like minded neighbors. 

Shelter
We closed on the land in November 2005 and the few times we went up to hunt or just walk the property we stayed at the earlier mentioned tavern. Eventually March rolled around, and the two families decided on adding a cabin to stay in while hunting, trekking, relaxing, et cetera. Looking at our finances we decided on a locally built 12x20 foot Amish built shed. 

At about this time, the economy was starting to decline, and I was laid off at my job of 20-years; Consequently, a lot of what I am going to write about fell into my bailiwick to accomplish. 

First, I called a few local shed builders to price out a shed. Once we decided on a builder, we ordered it. I borrowed a neighbor’s bulldozer, to level off a piece of earth, 16 x 24 feet. Then using a wheel barrel, I rolled over countless small rocks gathered from old stone walls on the property. Once that was done my brother came up and helped me build a foundation for the shed. If I was to do this again, I would just have ordered 2-3 tons of triple B stone and placed the shed on the stones rather than build the wall. Do to winter heave, the foundation must be repaired constantly. 

The cost of the shed and delivery was approximately $3,400-. Before we ordered the shed, I cost out building one with my brothers help. The cost for the building material was $2,300- however, even though I wasn’t working my brother was. It made more sense having one built and dropped off do in part to lack of labor. Once the shed was delivered, I took measurements and ordered materials to finish the inside of the shed now called the bunkhouse. The martials ordered in part were: F-13 insulation, plywood, 2 x 4’s and assorted fasteners and hinges. 

The plan was to set up the bunkhouse like a boat. Do you see a pattern starting to develop here? At the back of the shed we had four bunks. Then on one side we set up a galley with a sink and Coleman stove, then shelving for a pantry. On the opposite side we set up a 3x3 foot table I made from scraps. This table was placed between the foot of the bunk beds and door where eventually a wood stove would go.
 
My brother and his son came up one weekend and we put it all together over a three-day period. Being March, nights were cold so that wood stove became a paramount addition. 

Back at home I did some research and found the perfect stove for our 240-sf bunkhouse. I decided on the Four Dog steel tent stove. At the time the stoves were steel not Titanium like today, so the price was around $300-. We could have searched Craig’s list and bought a small used cast iron wood stove however, it being March, there was none available, and we wanted immediate heat so waiting till spring wasn’t and option. The stove was ordered and delivered to the property. 

I drove out to the property to install the stove which took me two days by myself. I went into town to the volunteer fire house and received a four-page wood stove instillation guide which I used exactly as written. The cost for heat was: $300- for the stove, $110- for stove pipe, and sheet aluminum for the backstop to insulate the bunkhouse walls. The night of the second day, the cabin was nice and toasty. 

We added a sink and the drain went into a 5-gallon bucket which we emptied daily when at the cabin. At first, we used a Coleman pressurized stove using white gas which I hated. So, by the beginning of summer we purchased a three-burner propane stove. Ran gas hose to a propane box outside of the cabin. Added a solenoid to turn off the gas from inside and then a 20 lb. propane tank. 

In the fall of that year over Labor Day weekend, we added a solar panel, to the outside of the bunkhouse. The panel fed into a solar/battery regulator which ended at two group 27 marine deep cycle batteries. Last we added marine 12-volt fluorescent lights, a marine 1,000-watt inverter, and a 12-volt marine radio with speakers. The radio was Sirius satellite compliant. We now had electricity, light, and tunes.

Man O’ man we were styling.   

While installing the 12-volt system my brother and I decided to add an outhouse. Our local building supervisor stopped by one day while we were sitting around a camp fire in front of the bunkhouse to see how we were coming along and to enjoy a free beer…or two. Although we did not need a permit for the shed, we were strongly discouraged adding a traditional outhouse by the supervisor. So, we did the best next thing - We ordered up a porto-potty. 

I called around to get the best price and finally decided on a company the next town over. The cost was $95- a month and they stopped by weekly to service it. If we were not going to be there for a period of time one of us sent a text to the honey dipper to let him know to save him a trip. The porto-potty was placed next to the wood pile so there was never any excuse to not come back without an arm load of wood once we made a deposit sort to speak. 

The first full year anniversary on the property found us ready for our first deer season. We had a fully furnished Bug-Out-Location and shelter. The bunkhouse was warm and inviting. The Sirius radio gave us tunes and an outlet to what was happening in the world. The inverter allowed us to watch movies on our laptop’s. The sound was funneled through the radio speakers from our laptop’s which gave us a kind of surround sound experience. We had an outhouse, albeit quite chilly when the temps dropped below zero. We were living the life of O’Reilly. 
 
I often hear other like minded folks say, “I wish I had a place to relocate to if the SHTF.” Then they share with me the million excuses why they cannot do this. Followed with, “I will do it someday though.” Yeah right, just like the 95% of sailors who never leave the dock. So here is my challenge to the 5% who will. 
 
1) Decide on what you want in a piece of property.   
2) Research where you want to buy a few acres. 
3) Go there and check the area out and hire a real-estate agent. You only need one acre although more       than one would be better.
4) Buy the property.
5) Build or order a shed like we did. “Pimp” out the shed and improve on your bunkhouse or cabin during your weekend excursions to it. And not to steal a slogan from a sneaker company, Just Do It! 
 
Warning Will Robinson...Warning

There is one warning that comes with this article though. The warning is visitors. You will have a lot of people just drop by your bunkhouse. It never failed that folks on the mountain or in town would hear we were up at the bunkhouse and inevitably drop by. These visitors were always met with a smile, the offer of a cold beer, a comfortable chair in the bunkhouse or around an outside fire. If the visit was timed right, they also shared in what we had for dinner or what I made for desert. Yes, I have become quite the Dutch Oven and cast-iron skillet/pot, chef. 

Baba 30 —http://sailingmagazine.net/article-14-baba-30.html
Joshua Slocum— https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_Alone_Around_the_World
Four Dog Stove— http://fourdog.com/ultra-light-i-dx/
 
 

[JoJo]

 
 Not to add to my tax burden so when I put my shed in I used Crusher Run which is ground up concrete. I leveled it off and tamped it with a 16lb sledge hammer with a 18" 4x4 taped to it. Then I lightly sprayed it with water to harden it.
 15 years and still solid.

[zanedclark]

Well done JM
z

[patriotman]

This is an absolutely wonderful write up JM. I may be following in these steps sooner rather than later.

[Jackalope]

   That's a good story Johny.  I've been fortunate that no one has given me any crap about my outhouse (pun intended).  I hope to do the same thing once we're completely transplanted to our new AO, but I'm not sure how the county regards outhouses.  In any case, we have a Nature's Head composting toilet, which will do the job.  You've got a great location, and in the end it met your criteria.

   We had similar requirements, except for number one, we wanted a mild four season climate.  I researched various locations over 7 years, and then we narrowed the search.  We visited the prospective area, and liked the terrain, the climate and the people.  So then we spent a year looking at specific real estate listings, and then examined the ones we were interested in using google street images and satellite photos.  The satellite photos helped a lot, since it would depict railroad tracks, large farms with manure pits, etc.  Once we narrowed it down to a handful of listings, we called a realtor, and made appointments to see those specific properties.  Boots on the ground in the most important part.  One place we were interested in had a litter of feral cats living in the crawlspace of the home.  Needless to say, the place smelled to high heaven of cat piss and cat dung.  Anyways, we looked at one prospective place, and immediately like it.  It had a very small stream and a small pond on the property.  It had enough acreage to grow some vegetables, it was semi-isolated, yet close to town.  We made an offer that evening, which was counter-offered, and we signed the finalized purchase agreement the next day.  So that's how we ended up on the Cumberland Plateau in beautiful Tennessee!
     

[Kbop]

Nicely done.  and good advice.  Thanks

[JohnyMac]

Thanks gents.

Nice story Jackalope. Maybe you could elaborate as we could all learn from your experience. 

[Jackalope]

   Well Johny, I'll elaborate, and hopefully I won't make this too long.

    So, I'm currently located in the Adirondack Mountains, and it's a fairly decent BOL.  However, my wife and I are getting older, and the seven month long winters are becoming tedious.  The closest interstate is about 100 miles away, and the closest Walmarts is over an hour away.  My wife originally comes from a much warmer climate and as a result she barely leaves the house during the winter months.  So we decided to start looking for a warmer bugout location.  Joel Skousen's book on strategic relocation and Jim Rawles' website were both helpful.  They both mention the Appalachian Redoubt, and specifically the Cumberland Plateau.  Once we had a general location idea, we began to look for problem areas, like the location of nuclear power plants, possible nuclear war targets, and prisons.  We wanted to be west of any plants or targets, since the prevailing winds are from the west.

    We also had other criteria such as low taxes, and a low cost of living.  We were concerned about water access and sun access too.  Building codes were another item.  I wanted the relative closeness of a civilian airport.  Access to VHF/UHF repeaters, and an active ham club were part of our checklist.  The local political climate, and a reverence for the Second Amendment were some additional concerns.  Distance from population centers was part of our list too.  We wanted enough acreage to be able to homestead, and we didn't want to be restricted by HOA's.  The friendliness and attitudes of the locals were another factor.

   The Cumberland Plateau is lightly populated, and there aren't that many towns to consider.  We consulted www.city-data.com for information on specific towns and villages.  For those unfamiliar with city-data, the site provides very specific information, i.e., number of health care facilities, how the town voted in the past presidential election, how many amateur radio operators there are in town, etc.  So, using the site it's possible to determine if an area leans left or right, how much crime there is, potentially how good the cell coverage will be etc.  However, you have to take the data with a large grain of salt.  For instance, in my town, the site claims there are like 60 ham radio operators, but once I looked at the detailed data, most of those hams were either dead, or no longer licensed.  City-data also has a forum, where users can ask specific questions regarding an area in which they are interested.

    Once we decided on the specific locale, we made a visit, to make sure that area did indeed mesh with our needs.  We traveled extensively and talked to everyone.  My wife is more outgoing than I am, so I let often let her do the talking.  She has an accent, and is definitely different, so it gave me a chance to gauge people's reactions. 

     After we returned from our field trip we began to search for specific properties.  We primarily used Realtor.com and Zillow.  If we were interested in a specific property we checked it out with google earth, and satellite images provided by Zillow.  If you're in a relationship; you definitely need to do it as a team.  A nice kitchen and an adorable bathroom are not overly important to me, but my wife considers them to be priorities.  I'm more interested in the terrain and outbuildings/garage.  We made up a list of potential properties, and then contacted a realtor.  I chose a realtor by first looking at their ratings on various real estate website.  I chose a small family run business, which I felt would give me better, personalized service.  I didn't want to be led around by a million dollar a month salesperson, whose only goal is to rack up a higher total for the month. 

    Before we went to look at the properties I made a question sheet with what I felt were important information.  Most of the information was available from the MLS data sheets that the realtors provide.  I also made up a matrix with important criteria listed.  This helped immensely with our final decision.  In our final decision, we went with a small homestead that's not as remote as I'd like it to be.  However, as my wife points out, the medical center is relatively close, which becomes more important as we get older.  That's another consideration, is your bug out location going to also be your full time residence?  If so, that will change some of your criteria.  As we toured the properties, we took many photos, and we brought along a flashlight and a compass.  The compass is used to determine true south for solar panel placement, and for sun shading.  Don't wear your best clothes, be prepared to crawl around in basements or up in attics.  Use the data that you've collected to make a rational decision, and make sure it meets your criteria.  All in all, we're satisfied with our purchase, and I don't plan on moving again!

[JoJo]

 Wow sounds great, good luck on your new home. At our age medical institutions close by are a must.  

[Nemo]

Hail I started that at age 50 with craniotomy due to brain abscess requiring surgical drainage which led to epilepsy.  Then at 53 a MI, with full arrest while riding the last half mile to the hospital (with sister driving wifes car) and getting zapped (x2) and stents put in.  You guys got it easy.

Nemo   

[zeerf]

Great post Johny!

I will say I was getting stuck in finding the "Perfect" place. I do not believe it exists at least not within the criteria I had set personally and you as well as others have mentioned (Drive time as one of the main considerations) my goal was under 3 hour drive and I am currently at 2.5. The place is not perfect but it is hard to go back to the grind after every visit.

Google earth pro, zillow + other online realtor type sites, and lots of research helped me a great deal.

[pkveazey]

I have Bug Out bags and lots of Bug Out supplies and equipment and a Trailer and 4WD vehicle as a last resort but I plan to Bug In because we are old and bugging out to the forest isn't very feasible. However, we are 20 miles from the nearest City and should be in a good position to have advance warning if leaving becomes necessary. I have almost zero debt and probably could afford to buy an acre or two of land up in the mountains to set up a bug out camp but that would be at least a 2 hour drive. I know that talk is cheap but at my age I believe I'd rather just stay put and shoot it out with invaders.

[CJS06]

Great post Johny Mac

Many of our conversations have helped me in my plans to get the !@#$ out of this area. In all reality bugging out from the Northeast is a very difficult proposition unless you can get a serious jump on the masses. I have approx 100-300 miles(depending on direction) of urban/suburban masses to get through(Boston metro area, Providence/Worcester area, All of CT, NY metro area). Just imagine your worst day of rush hour(s) traffic in Boston and multiply that if something kicks off. I reference a previous excellent post about the "golden horde".

I am in the process of purchasing land in S.W/Idaho or S.E. Wyoming or Central-Southern Utah, with a small group of others. We are looking at approx 300-600 acres split between 5 families. We have been looking at a few different ranches/ pieces of land in those regions. We have identified a number of parcels and are currently whittling down the options (cost-benefit).  The group is made of the guys(and their families) that I train with the most.

There are still plenty of speed bumps to work out. My primary source of income is still based in the Northeast. I am diligently working on getting a new source of income in that area.  My kids will most likely stay here in the Northeast which is a bummer for me, but as they get older and build their own lives they will have different goals and plans.  My youngest is still in college here in RI and my oldest is engaged with both her and her fiance working for NUWC. I plan on being ready to move out there full time within the next 16ish months.

Chris

[patriotman]

I have Bug Out bags and lots of Bug Out supplies and equipment and a Trailer and 4WD vehicle as a last resort but I plan to Bug In because we are old and bugging out to the forest isn't very feasible. However, we are 20 miles from the nearest City and should be in a good position to have advance warning if leaving becomes necessary. I have almost zero debt and probably could afford to buy an acre or two of land up in the mountains to set up a bug out camp but that would be at least a 2 hour drive. I know that talk is cheap but at my age I believe I'd rather just stay put and shoot it out with invaders.

For most people, bugging in is the way to go.

[JoJo]

  As pkveazey said I’m to old to bug out so bug in it is.

but at my age I believe I'd rather just stay put and shoot it out with invaders

We are thirty miles from a City,  five miles from a brand new Hospital and five miles in the opposite direction is a small town. 
 We are surrounded by corn, wheat. Soy bean and rape seed fields. Two miles away is a giant chicken farm and a huge grain silo.
 The land may be flat but can see for long distances up to 1 ½ miles.

[Nemo]

I load up with household preps and organize rest of the bunch around here, notify those others who need and want it and go.

About 25 miles away to a 350 or so acre beef cattle farm with probably (now) 25 angus steers and 25 breeding cows due for spring birth there now.  Steers are probably going to auction late summer timeframe.  But good for the table now.

There is enough everything on site to do a fair size spring cow corn planting and till up a good size garden.  I have some seed but from what I have seen the rest of the family always have a pile of seed packs around.

Family (related) who lives right nearby currently has probably 40 free range chickens.  There are several smaller buildings easily converted to chicken pens right there also.

2 shallow hand pump wells and 2 deep submersible pump wells are there also, all operational as needed.  There is a generator or 2 around there or someone here has one.   Lots of space for digging waste disposal pits.  Same for general trash

House is large enough to probably keep 30-40 people out of the winter and warm with all the fireplaces.  It is surrounded by woods and has large game populations in the area.   Substantial 'barn' structures for additional storage, watch points or whatever necessary.

Its all within about 20 miles of a local hospital and medical services along with main highway, railroad track and local passenger terminal.  But its located and set up so its hard to find unless you know what you are looking for and where it is.  Driveway/roadway into almost looks like a lane down into a field if you notice it.  Approach visibility is good for probably a minimum of 200 yards from the main structure to 1000 yards from entrance.

About all I need now is someone who has a decent file or stone for ax sharpening I think.

Thoughts and suggestions?

Nemo

[gadget99]

Great article JM.

You have provided a very good recipe for success.

You make a very compelling point on how people get stuck and do not follow through with intentions.

We see the example you quoted with boats here big time.

There are many really nice boats wallow g on their moorings or sitting on boat yards. Not being used.

This made our search for a boat a bit of a minefield. A bunch of them o  the market have really deteriorated.

When we did find our boat we payed £7200 which is a good price for the boat we got.

Cheers

[JohnyMac]

I am very happy how the discussion is going on this subject. 

You folks are thinking. Some are sharpening their current Bug-in or Bug-out location (s). Others are going to get going - Even if it is just a basic camp that I outline in my article. 

[patriotman]

I am very happy how the discussion is going on this subject. 

You folks are thinking. Some are sharpening their current Bug-in or Bug-out location (s). Others are going to get going - Even if it is just a basic camp that I outline in my article. 

I see that the article was posted over at AP. I am looking forward to reading the comments there as well.

[JohnyMac]

Yeah, I agree.

Bug-out location (s) is an interesting topic. I hope that folks share their experiences so we all can learn.

[DMCakhunter]

My wife and I bought a cabin in Wisconsin this past October. On 3 acres, wooded and lake frontage. Not neccesarily a bug out location but a good alternate if needed. We have a few things to improve: septic system, up grade the electric service and add a 50 amp camper plug outside the garage, add a generator port, increase size of propane tank and obtain firewood after the septic is done.
We use this year round and it is a good alternate location. A solid couple next door live there year round and appear to be good people. Am slowly getting the place provisioned with the proper items.

[Nemo]

I know that talk is cheap but at my age I believe I'd rather just stay put and shoot it out with invaders.

Don't don't head to the forest.  Head to Forest.  24551.

Nemo

[JohnyMac]

Right on DM!  You are part of the 5% 

[Nemo]

I suspect there are a couple people out there who have good whet stones and know how to use them.  Might be good to remember my situation.  Probably easily absorb a good 20 smart folks on the farm.

Nemo

[patriotman]

I suspect there are a couple people out there who have good whet stones and know how to use them.  Might be good to remember my situation.  Probably easily absorb a good 20 smart folks on the farm.

Nemo

Duly noted I am even housebroken!