Author Topic: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags  (Read 2544 times)


Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 01:36:40 PM »
Right on!  :thumbsUp:
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Offline USMC0331

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 04:10:31 PM »
Eh, no. 
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Offline APX808

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 04:33:25 PM »
Take me with a grain of salt in this one, as I never ran an AR even less in combat conditions, but I don't like this duplexed approach.

1 - Mud, sand, and other stuff can get into the mag, and when you feed it to your AR you absolutely fuck it up.
2 - It will make your weapon heavier, so it will tire you quicker and will reduce your maneuver capacity.
3 - Speed wise, I could bet my ass if you practice reloading you can have the same or even better times for a quick reload.

Offline USMC0331

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 04:44:12 PM »
APX hit it on the head. I ran a Redi-mag for about 2 months before I realized it was not worth it.

The reload speed is insignificant considering the narrow widow that it would count in which would be an out in the open standing reload.

Trying to shift mags with that setup while running is much harder than hitting an empty magwell with one mag.

If you are in pistol range you transition after 30 and solve the problem or get to cover. If not, why are you not behind cover after your initial return fire?

Looks good on paper, not in reality.
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Offline Grudgie

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2013, 03:29:21 AM »
I like the idea as a 'ready to go' rifle when you don't have time to strap on some mag pouches or if you're in a situation where carrying mag pouches is impractical. I keep my Ar15 with light and duplexed mags by my bed Incase of home invasion.

And having +1 mag on your person could never hurt so it gets a thumbs up from me for whatever weight that carries. No pun intended.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 03:32:40 AM by Grudgie »

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 08:52:08 AM »
I am inclined to agree with Grudgie. For a rifle leaning in a corner at your house to be used for self defense I think this is a nice way to have a second mag ready to go without even thinking about it.

To lug around the extra weight in a 10 mile patrol it might become a bit to much.
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Offline USMC0331

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Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 11:12:43 AM »
I can go with it as a handout rifle to someone without proper gear in a defensive position also, but that's about it.

NO, on second thought I would rather they carried it in a back pocket or set it beside the FP.  As or HD, 30 rounds ain't enough?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 11:22:47 AM by DVC Prepper »
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Offline Reaver

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 05:32:18 PM »
Yeah, even the equipment designed for this type of set up sucks. I'll stick to speed reloads from my kit.
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Offline Currahee

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2013, 01:14:03 PM »
Agree with most of the folks here, don't much care for duplexing magazine.
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Offline Jeremy Knauff

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2013, 04:10:33 PM »
Take me with a grain of salt in this one, as I never ran an AR even less in combat conditions, but I don't like this duplexed approach.

1 - Mud, sand, and other stuff can get into the mag, and when you feed it to your AR you absolutely fuck it up.
2 - It will make your weapon heavier, so it will tire you quicker and will reduce your maneuver capacity.
3 - Speed wise, I could bet my ass if you practice reloading you can have the same or even better times for a quick reload.

1. Not really. At that position, you're unlikely to get much of anything into your 2nd mag.
2. So? A pound, maybe two? The loads we carried on a basic patrol would blow your mind. Another pound or two?even over the course of several days?will have no effect. And for what it's worth, 15+ years later, I can still keep up with my brothers in uniform. I know, because I do it on a regular basis.  ;)
3. On a range, where you get to just drop a mag and come back for it later, sure, you might get close to the same time, but in the field?be it combat or SHTF?you need to stuff that dropped mag into a pouch or cargo pocket. Having done that thousands of times myself, I know how long it takes a proficient shooter to do. Joe Gunner, mall ninja, won't reach that level of speed and proficiency any time soon.

That being said, I am comfortable enough with my AR to just run a single 30 round mag, and if things get too hot, I have a chest rig w/ 8 more handy, but don't write off duplexing as a gimmick or ineffective?it came from tier 1 units, not Hollywood. It works, it's just a matter of personal preference.

Offline USMC0331

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2013, 04:27:28 PM »
It works but its a solution looking for a problem if you ask me.

Where does that double mag go when you are done? Won't fit in your chest harness, harder to put in a dump pouch (which I would not use in SHTF) and causes the shooter to use two modes of loading the gun, breaking the KISS principle.

10-15% weight of the gun is not insignificant and the handling of it sucks with a double mag on it.

If you are doing an emergency reload out in the open, the ground is where that empty mag goes no matter what the scenario.  If you are not in the open then it doesn't make a difference.

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Offline Jeremy Knauff

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2013, 05:03:57 PM »
Where does that double mag go when you are done? Won't fit in your chest harness
Yep. One of the reasons I won't use it.

harder to put in a dump pouch
I disagree. It will very easily drop into a pouch or cargo pocket. Hell, you could fit an unstripped MRE into our cargo pockets, you can sure as hell fit two taped mags in.

10-15% weight of the gun is not insignificant and the handling of it sucks with a double mag on it.
That's a matter of fitness and proficiency.

If you are doing an emergency reload out in the open, the ground is where that empty mag goes no matter what the scenario.
Nope. I spent plenty of time in plenty of wide open places all over the world and never once was dropping an empty mag on the ground an option. You don't know if you'll ever get back to that place to retrieve your mag.

Look I don't like the method/idea myself, but if it works for someone else, great, roll with it. If not, do your thing.  That's the beauty?most of us who were are no longer in the military and can pretty much do whatever works for us. :thumbsUp:

Offline APX808

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2013, 05:30:50 PM »
Jeremy your arguments in regards to weight aren't valid.

1 - I know a patrol man carries a shit load of weight, but he carries the weight distributed in his backpack and chest rig, they don't carry the weight in their rifle.
2 - Fitness level is pointless, is better to carry 10lb than to carry 12lb, you will tire less and you'll be able to maneuver your rifle easily.

I only see problems in this technique, and I'm not seeing many adepts to use it either.

PS: Good for you that you train with your budies.

Offline Jeremy Knauff

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2013, 07:44:27 PM »
Ever carried an A2 with an AN/PVS4 bolted to the top? I've run many multi-day patrols like that. An extra mag is nothing.

Look, we agree on this not being the best idea, we just disagree on why. I for one can probably think of a million things more productive we can do than go back and forth about something that we basically agree on.  ;)

Offline USMC0331

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2013, 08:09:23 PM »
No, but I have carried an M60 with an 80lb pack over 20 miles of Korean hills and the old saying "ounces = pounds, pounds = pain" is very true. :)

It's not the weight issue as much as how the gun handles. We can go back and forth like any argument online or we can get to the range in our kit and try both ways in a variety of situations.

I ran a Redi-mag for a few months and saw no benefit in time or ammo when I put it into the training crucible. 

We can setup a few easy scenarios that would prove it on the clock but they should already be obvious to anyone doing the work already.

Its one of those argument that can be solved in 10 minutes on a range with a shot clock and some critical thinking.

I'll leave it at that. :)
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2013, 08:11:23 AM »
Great idea DVC - Where do you want to meet?

Man O'man I haven't shot a firearm in months. I have been very stingy on what I have put through my guns lately.  :facepalm: Next time I have a chance, I am going to go at it with a .22LR conversion - I will report back.

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Offline USMC0331

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2013, 12:57:19 PM »
I'm in Medford, Oregon and have a great range with 7 bays, one out to 250 up hill and a shoot house at my disposal.  Anytime someone wants to practice, I'm there :)
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2013, 07:03:07 PM »
Medford OR LOL A bit far for me  ;)

The last time I was in Medford, I was traveling up from Marina del Rey via I-5 to Seattle. It was 1992. I remember eating at a great barbeque spot which I am sure is long gone.   
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Offline USMC0331

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2013, 08:39:51 PM »
Bar-B-Que comes and goes around here for some reason, never making it longer than a few years. 

Back to the double mag topic... I think the #1 reason I don't like it is that is creates two SOPS and I prefer to streamline (Occam's razor) whenever possible. 

Not saying that I believe in giving up speed for consistency (i.e. using the overhand rack on a handgun slide verses the slide release method) but if the consequences of gaining a second or two from behind cover (where they don't matter so much) is trading in a simpler SOP & weapon handling while adding difficulty to reloading while moving, then I'll have to pass.

Quote from: Jeremy Knauff
Nope. I spent plenty of time in plenty of wide open places all over the world and never once was dropping an empty mag on the ground an option. You don't know if you'll ever get back to that place to retrieve your mag.

So were you doing reloads with retention without cover while being shot at?  That mag meant that much to ya?  I must be misunderstanding your statement?

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Offline RONSERESURPLUS

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Re: Bracken: Duplexing Your AR Mags
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2013, 07:28:19 AM »
Hey all
In my Time in service and as well since I've been out seen this done and never thought a lot of it, it makes the weapon unballanced, for one, it's a hassle to put in a Mag pouch and keep stored and I just don't see that the second mag is not easy to get to as well as quick as I need it! To each is own try it, but in my case I was not a fan!


Ron L