Author Topic: AR Sighting Systems-Rear  (Read 2694 times)

Offline thatGuy

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AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« on: October 03, 2011, 01:33:26 AM »
Hey Guys,

I had someone call me this week and ask me what sighting system I thought was best for the Rear Sight on an AR.

I don't know shit about shit but here is what I was thinking.

Mk 18 w/A2 Carry Handle

A2 Carry Handle


I love A2 Carry Handles! They are nice and beefy, hard to snag, line up with a standard front sight post (which is also a big old chunky piece of metal) and as far as adjustment they got 800yards of it.. 25 yards zero (don't need some wicked spotting scope) is pretty nice to.

Rifle w/LMT A2 Tactical Sight

LMT A2 Tactical Sight

I also really like the LMT A2 Tactical Sight. It looks more snag prone but is small enough that you can co-witness with your favorite optical device.

I just love A2 Sights. How about you?


Offline mountainredneck2051

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 02:39:29 AM »
i love the carry handle sights
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Offline Reaver

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 03:38:35 AM »
i love the carry handle sights
I concur.
as you know, I am NOT a fan of the AR platform. But if there is one thing I wish I could carry with me everywhere & attach to any platform I run. It would be an A1/A2 Carry handle site. 
You can run a 4x optic on it & still use the irons. and its just so pretty looking.
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Offline technique

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2011, 11:22:58 AM »
If I'm doing an average type build, I'll use a MaTech rearsight.
For the stuff I know I'll use often I prefer a KAC 300 or 600 meter rear sight. I prefer the KAC.
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Offline Reaver

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2011, 11:45:46 AM »
I prefer the KAC.

Is that a sight? or yankee accent for cock?

 :D
Sorry bro couldn't resist.
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Offline thekiltedpatriot

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 07:48:08 PM »
ALL my ARs are flat tops and ALL run either scopes for DM or EOTECHs for scout/entry.  The scoped rifles I run the detachable carrying handle when not running the scopes, but the EOTECH mounted versions I have ARMS #40 flip up sites co-witnessed in case the batteries ever wear out and/or I don't have immediate access to new ones.  Worse comes to worse, I have extra detachable carrying handles for extended times without batteries.

It works for me and I've been running this setup for literally YEARS.

~KP

Offline Currahee

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 08:02:04 PM »
I run an EO 512 with a MI flip up on each end.

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Dave_M

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2011, 03:18:30 AM »
DD fixed 1.5 rear

Offline thatGuy

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2011, 10:58:14 AM »
What is it about those systems that you guys prefer?

Strong points, weak spots?

You guys would really trust some of those little sights for an extended WROL scenario?

Offline technique

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2011, 04:54:19 PM »
With the MaTech, there are some pros and cons.

The little detent that holds for adjustments wears pretty fast and renders the sight pretty useless.
It's a current issue sight and has proven to stand up to a good amount of wear, but that little part is the
Achilles Heel. There are expensive upgrades available- ehh.

With the Knights, they're small and very well built. I do trust them.
Like the MaTech, I like the Knights because of the easy adjustments for range.
These sights work well when time and known distances are all on your side.

With the Knights (not so much the MaTech) the size is awesome.
I don't generally use scopes but I could use any damn scope I want with them, there's enough clearance.
Same goes for NV mounted to the rear of any optic, there is clearance enough for that. Not sure why you'd
do that...unless you haven't got any IR lasers- *Scoff*

Anyway, that's my take and that's what I prefer.
If I were to require a fixed rear sight, I'd go with the Daniel Defense.
Unlike the LMT, it's got a lower profile to it. No giant knob.

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Offline thekiltedpatriot

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2011, 06:24:24 PM »
What is it about those systems that you guys prefer?

Strong points, weak spots?

You guys would really trust some of those little sights for an extended WROL scenario?

The usefulness/durability of the EOTECH speaks for itself, and the history/quality of ARMS products does the same. 

The EOTECH takes batteries, but I have the AA version and batteries are plentiful; they last forever in these sites.  But they still take batteries...hence the co-witnessed ARMS site and a back up to the back up in the form of a detachable carrying handle.

You bring up a valid point about extended WROL which is why I keep a detachable carrying handle for EVERY one of my ARs.  That said, my ARs are tools and I wouldn't hesitate to depend on the ARMS site in any scenario since it is basically an A2 site (same parts) that flip up.

~KP

Dave_M

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2011, 10:38:27 PM »
What is it about those systems that you guys prefer?

Strong points, weak spots?


There are two main categories of rear sights; fixed and folding. There are reasons behind each and which you choose invariably falls to what TTP's (Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures) you adhere to and what optic setup you're using.

To expound upon this, when using a magnified or variable optic, your BUIS (Back Up Iron Sight) obviously needs to be out of the way (either for proper eye-relief, optic length, or both). So, if you're running something like an ACOG or Accupoint and run a BUIS, you're going to need something both folding and low-profile. If you're using a RDS (Red Dot Sight), you can run either: Here's where TTP's fall into play.

There are three basic TTP's in regards to what to do if/when your RDS fails (assuming a fixed front sight, which I always advocate). If you have a folding BUIS and the RDS fails, you can (time barring) flip it up. If the threat is more immediate (right fucking now!!) and you run a folding BUIS you can disregard the BUIS and utilize the body of your RDS as a bigass ghost right and center your front sight in it. If you run a fixed BUIS, they're right there, just use them.

With either setup, one needs to consider what kind of optic mount to use. Namely, how it attaches and what sight plane it uses (either 100% cowitness or a lower 1/3rd cowitness). To explain the differences between the who, here are some pictures from a thread on another forum link I suggest ya'll give it a read for further education on the subject.








Basically, what it breaks down to is: How much of the FSB (Front Sight Block) and rear BUIS do you want in the way? For a RDS, I like fixed BUIS on the front and rear with a lower 1/3rd height optic mount. The FSB doesn't get in the way as much and you can simply tuck your head down if BUIS are needed. For magnified optics, I prefer a fixed FSB with a folding rear. In the event of optic breakage or other failure it will need to be removed to use the sights, obviously. In this case, a quality (such as LaRue) QD mount should be used. There is a recent trend to go against QD optic mounts for RDS's and I think the main advocates of them have never spider-webbed the glass on a RDS so bad that it can't be seen through clearly. So, in regards to optics, go with QD.

Alright. So down to brass tacks. There are features I really like on BUIS, whether fixed or folding. These include:
-Non-QD (your rear sight, aside from extremely special-application purposes, never has to be removed).
-Dual aperture (this means both a peep and the larger O-2 sight)
-Windage adjustable*
-Solid mounting system (IE: Not a thumb screw)

For fixed sights, here's what I like:
Daniel Defense A1.5
Why I like it: Low profile, hard to accidentally knock out of whack (due to the A1 style sight adjustment)
This is my #1 fixed sight. There are many nearly exactly like it, such as
LaRue LT103
Same idea but easier to adjust windage. Yes, it's QD but it's LaRue so it's solid.
Troy Fixed
Once again, easier to adjust but non-QD.
Calvary Arms

and more...

For folding sights, here's what I like:
Troy Folding
Easy to adjust, low-profile. Good stuff
Arms #40L
Good sight that fits under even the largest optics. Windage is easy to adjust but also easier to dick up.
Midwest Industries
Probably the closest you'll get to a regular A2 sight in a folding package
KAC
Extremely low-profile. Adjusts for elevation and windage (even though elevation isn't on my, 'need' list). My absolute favorite rear sight is the FN copy of this, the folding SCAR BUIS.

There are several other options around but these are my preferences.


Quote
You guys would really trust some of those little sights for an extended WROL scenario?


Absolutely. I would choose any of the above over a full carry handle or anything with a thumb screw knob like the LMT.

*the reason why I don't include elevation adjustment as a required option is the following:
-AR's are pointy-clicky out to 300m depending on setup. This means that elevation adjustment isn't need for the vast vast majority of combat shooting
-The inclusion of elevation adjustment means both a more complex and bulky mechanism (with the exclusion of the KAC/FN rears)


Offline RONSERESURPLUS

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Once again, Great Post or responce Dave
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 11:58:37 AM »
Once again, a Great responce to a Post Dave! I alwatys enjoy the pics you add, as well as the sage advice included, thanks so Very Much!

RON

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Re: AR Sighting Systems-Rear
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2011, 01:09:55 PM »
Once again, a Great responce to a Post Dave! I alwatys enjoy the pics you add, as well as the sage advice included, thanks so Very Much!

RON
I agree, great explanation. Short, to the point and clear. Thanks Dave.