An attempt at rational Ammo stash minimums

[Erick]

I've made this post on a straight gun website... probably not as necessary on here on this prepper site..but I figure why not? 
......
An attempt at rational ammo stash minimums:

Guns last a long time but Ammo goes "Bang" and is then gone, so the actual "agent-of-harm" that is the limiting factor in my ability to put effects on target is the Ammo, not the firearm.

As a rule of thumb I always have on hand as a minimum as much ammo as the price of the gun can buy.
That way you balance the resources allocated to each and not have an unbalanced supply of guns vs ammo.

Here are some examples of this concept:

If I have 3 guns of the same type/price, say 3 GP100s
Street value of 1 GP100 say 500-580 bucks. So to support 3 GP100s I will stash at least $1500-1600 of .357 Ammo for them. So about 4500 rds... maybe a mix with cheaper 38 SPC will bulk up that number..

If I own 2 AR15s at approx 1000 dollars each = 2000 dollars worth of 5.56/.223., so maybe either 10,000 rounds of steel case .223 or 6500 rounds of brass 5.56 , or some combination thereof would be an appropiate amount of ammo.

A 50 Beowulf thats worth maybe 1000 dollars ..... .50 Beowulf ammo is 2-3 dollars a round.. call it 2.50 so for that rifle I might feel 400 rds are a proper stash
...again its about balance, it would be foolish misallocation to try to support this niche rifle needing very expensive Ammo, with numerically as much ammo as an Ar15 or a pistol so its not really about the number of rounds per firearm.. but a balanced allocation of resources..

A cheap firearm (say a 22LR single shot) accordingly is less of an investment of resources so correspondingly will get less $$ invested into its ammo to maintain its function in the face of a shortage (which numerically may still be quite a bit given the low cost of 22LR).

So you can see how this helps accomplish balance.....an expensive firearms tool deserves to be enabled by a correspondingly greater amount of ammo resources allocated to it.

Conversely It makes little sense to own a half dozen ARs worth maybe $6,000-7000, but only have 1000 rds ($200-350 value depending) to support their function. That would be an incredibly lopsided allocation of resources.

This is why I stopped buying new rifles in past couple of years..

I realized if supplies of ammo and arms ever stopped.. I'd be running out of bullets long before I'd be running out of functioning rifles.

And that would be a waste ...

Bear with me fellas I'll take it a step further.... as it applies to other classes of gear as well..
....correspondingly once I realized this, I even sold some ARs to convert their value into ammo, training, and key accessories such as lots of mags and quality Nightvision, for a better balanced stash.

Owning 10 ARs with only 20 Mags and a couple thousand rounds is much less useful than owning 2 quality ARs backed up by 10,000+ rounds, a couple good chest rigs, mags out the wazoo and quality Nightvision

[Nemo]

That is exactly why there is a few cans somewhere with 500 rounds of 223 and 200 rounds of 9mm in them.  Ammo is stored in vacuum sealed plastic, each box then each quantity.  Some are all just 750 rounds of 9mm.  Then all is stacked for the Fat 50 and double sealed each.

Can is sealed from the outside and stored in a pressure treated wood homebuilt box, which is then wrapped in heavy inside storm window plastic and completely wrapped in that Gorilla brand duct tape stuff.  Some cans even have a Hi Point inside them.

At least thats what I hear some crazy guy did around the farm.  I cannot say for sure but around the larger families you know, you hear things, people talk, word gets around.  Some folks are just like that I think.

Nemo

[Jackalope]

   Yup, don't keep all your ammo and firearms in one location.  Spread the joy around!

[Kbop]

cool post.  thanks

there may be 300 million fire arms in the USofA but there are probably only 100 million that are reliable.
there are probably only 10 million decent operators - people who know how to feed, maintain as well as operate their weapons.

but there are probably less than a 100 rounds per weapon in most households - IMHO that's probably on the high end.  I grew up in a family that went hunting (during the official season) every year - my grandfather would purchase a box of 30-06 for the season - about 20 rounds.  they would be gone by the end of the season.

prepping uses a different kind of math.

[JohnyMac]

Great write-up Erick! 

[grizz]

When it comes to guns there are two schools of thought
1) what is the bare minimum I need
2) Just one more and I'll be good 

When it comes to ammo it doesn't matter how much I have, I always need a little more 

[bennington.camper]

I've made this post on a straight gun website... probably not as necessary on here on this prepper site..but I figure why not? 

So what are your thoughts on preparing to reload your favorite calibers as a tool for minimizing quantities on hand?

[Nemo]

Good quality factory ammo is done better and more consistently than my current skills permit. This may change in the future but we shall see on that.

If my current situation permitted it I would probably be of the idea that when I buy ammo for recoil therapy or classes and such I generally use a quantity I have reloaded and purchase an equivalent amount for storage.

That way my storage would always be growing and despite a bit of increased costs I would be getting decent shooting practice.

Again, note that that would be my plans if I could afford to make enough reloads and had funds to purchase more for storage.

Nemo

[bennington.camper]

So tell me your favorite places to buy ammunition. The internet is overwhelming and I have purchased from several sources but never really satisfied.
Or do you buy local regardless of the price?
I am sure it varies based on caliber too, but in general, do you have (and I open this to all who read it) a preferred source?

Thanks

[Nemo]

You gotta look around.  This is a couple of the better ones.  Ammoseek is a good place for looking at various other places.  I generally go with the lowest "in my door" pricing.  Alot of times that the local walmart.

Nemo

https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/

https://ammoseek.com/

https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/

[Jackalope]

I've used targetsportsusa.com and Ammunition Depot.  They both have good service.  I just ordered some more stuff from Target Sports last evening.  Shotgun shells  either from Walmarts or Target Sports, depending upon the amount purchased.  Target Sports has free shipping, if you buy by the case, and if I remember correctly Ammunition Depot ships free if you spend at least $250.

[Erick]

So tell me your favorite places to buy ammunition. The internet is overwhelming and I have purchased from several sources but never really satisfied.
Or do you buy local regardless of the price?
I am sure it varies based on caliber too, but in general, do you have (and I open this to all who read it) a preferred source?

Thanks

militaryshooters.com
ammo.com
sgammo.com
the-armory.com
targetsportsusa.com
JGsales.com
outdoorlimited.com
ammunitionstore.com

I would like to support local brick and mortar places but the price discrepancy is simply too large and getting ammo at  alow price (to support plenty of practice) is simply too critical.

So I generally buy from one of those whichever has the best deal for the ammo I am looking for that day after checking this aggregator: http://gun-deals.com/ammo

Some have shipping included in the quoted price others dont, so it pays to double check the actual shipped cost.

All of these have sold me good stuff at reasonable to excellent prices.

Also check my ammo review http://unchainedpreppers.com/forum/weapons/big-ammo-review-of-commercial-ammo-for-commercial-ar15s/

[patriotman]

Bulkammo.com is also a good place. Occasionally, Sportsmanguide has really great deals.

[CJS06]

Erick

Great Subject. You guys have posted plenty of good sources for quality ammunition. Check them all out, they all have good deals at different times. http://gun-deals.com/ammo is a great resource.

One thing to consider when purchasing is looking at how much ammo you go through in training.  For example  I shoot between 1k and 1.2k rds of 9mm per month. My minimum on hand stock of 9mm is 5000 rds on hand.  When I hit 5k I try to order another 3-5000 rds. This gives me my training/practice needs for the next quarter while not tapping into my minimum. For my EDC ammo I keep 500 rds on hand at all times.

 For 5.56 it is a little skewed because of the different rounds that I keep. I like a minimum of 5k of 55gr M193 and 2k of 77gr SMK or TMK.  The 55gr gets used more often, and replaced at the same rate as 9mm.  The 77gr gets used less frequently and therefore replaced as needed. As I take classes I try to pre purchase the ammo for what I have scheduled and set it aside.

  In .224V I only keep about 1200rds on hand and replace it as I shoot it. I am still at the "playing" process with this round so havnt gone too heavy on ammo. It tends to get shot in very specific classes or training sessions and otherwise sits most of the time.  In the year-ish time I have had the .224V I have only put about 4400 rounds through it.

I couldnt agree more with the concept of forgoing the new coolness or next great thing that comes out in favor of more ammo and more training!  Also I know tons of guys that own multiples of ARs, have a mix mash of 6-10 different 9mms or 45s, all kinds of Optics for said guns.......and complain about not having NODS and how expensive they are.  Sell 3 or 4 of the 16" ARs and focus on 1 or two of the handguns and sell the rest. Take that cash and you can get some trainingin and still have enough for a quality set of NODS. I cant tell you how many guys I see at the local shop that are serial AR "builders". They have tons of rifles in different calibers, most of which never get shot or get 100-200 rds a year.  These are the same guys that tell me I am wasting my money on a $2000 ish AR with a$2500 Optic because they can built 3-4 guns with scopes and every chachki on the planet for that.  Granted my guns see over 15-18k rounds per year and theirs tend to get 500 rds combined. I am not against owning multiple ARs, hell I own a few, but they all have a purpose and dont detract from my ability to get training in. Same with my handguns, I focus on 2 primary handguns. If my guns dont get shot they get sold.

Chris

[Nemo]

Cheaper than Dirt has good prices also.  If you order with the no rush shipping is free.  It is said to take an extra 10 days or so but my last order was order to receipt in 6.

Nemo

[Jackalope]

  Fuck Cheaper than Dirt.  They aren't true supporters of the 2nd Amendment.  They have a history of bending with public sentiment.  For instance, after the Newtown, Ct mass shooting they stopped selling AR's, much like Dick's sporting goods.  When they restarted selling AR's they jacked up their prices.  Please see the following website for further information: http://www.2acheck.com/cheaper-than-dirt-rating/comment-page-1/   Yeah, they've donated a bunch of money since then to 2nd Amendment organizations, but only after it effected their bottom line.  I haven't bought anything from CTD or from Dick's since 2013, because they're only interested in their profit margins, rather than being true supporters of the 2nd Amendment.

[Erick]

Nemo and Jack:

I used to buy a LOT from CTD.

When the thing with Newton happened I disagreed with their call of course..
But I also think they are very PRO2A and likely panicked...

As for them jacking up their prices back then... they needed to balance the prices with demand or they can close the doors.
They were looking into the face of no inventory for months if they sold their in stock ARs at normal prices.
People have to live too..

Their blog is excellent and hard hitting. Their donation history is impeccable.
The same cannot be said for many many other busiensses

I have not bought much from them at all in recent years but thats mostly due to change in buying habits.

They were among the very first firearms/survival/tactical specialized internet retailers and have played a role in the expansion of our lifestyle.. I do not believe they deserve a boycott.

Chris: Great post!

[Nemo]

CTD was on the bad list for a long time after Newtown.  But since then they have (imho) redeemed themselves some.  Not all the way and they have come off the bad list and are still on the not so good list.  But I will buy from them now.  But only if its a really good deal.

Nemo

[Jackalope]

  Well I politely disagree.  When they saw how much revenue they were losing, then they panicked, and only then they went back to supporting the 2nd Amendment.  I won't spend another dime with them, because all they're concerned about is making money.  I'll spend my dollars with businesses who stand by the 2nd Amendment, rather than the quislings at CTD.   They may look like they have made amends with their donations and their blog, but they are in it for the money, I don't trust them at all.  I wouldn't be surprised if they turn over their customer lists when CW II starts in earnest.

[JohnyMac]

Great comments CJS06!

Interesting story today...To make a very long story short I was inventorying a silent key's radio shack today for his wife to sell his stuff off. While crawling through his shack I found a Cxv AR-15 Model Core-15. Later I questioned his wife on it and she vaguely knew about it. She really wanted to "make it go away". Can't find any current used prices on it. No optics just iron sights. Does anybody have a clue?

On the ammo front: Chris, I bought up the last of Steve's 5.56 ammo and to be frank it sucked! The worst $200- I have ever spent. Bullet seating depths were not consistent and so I suspect other parts of each round there was no quality control.

I routinely get groups under .75" at 100 yards with IMI ammo. Steve's is under 3" at the same distance. 

My point for bringing this up is two fold. Buy quality ammo for serious work and crap to just go bang with!  Stick to your name brand manufactures.

[Nemo]

A 3 inch circle will anywhere on a head or chest.

Nemo

[patriotman]

Great comments CJS06!

Interesting story today...To make a very long story short I was inventorying a silent key's radio shack today for his wife to sell his stuff off. While crawling through his shack I found a Cxv AR-15 Model Core-15. Later I questioned his wife on it and she vaguely knew about it. She really wanted to "make it go away". Can't find any current used prices on it. No optics just iron sights. Does anybody have a clue?

On the ammo front: Chris, I bought up the last of Steve's 5.56 ammo and to be frank it sucked! The worst $200- I have ever spent. Bullet seating depths were not consistent and so I suspect other parts of each round there was no quality control.

I routinely get groups under .75" at 100 yards with IMI ammo. Steve's is under 3" at the same distance. 

My point for bringing this up is two fold. Buy quality ammo for serious work and crap to just go bang with!  Stick to your name brand manufactures.

Any pics of the rifle? I found this, which is $600 new. So less than that?

https://www.gunsamerica.com/982808871/Core-15-Scout-M4-Government-Profile.htm

[JohnyMac]

Thx Patriotman.

It's a Core-15 rifle model Cxv. I found several that had sold on Gun Broker and they sold for between $450 and $550. New the rifle retailed for $700-.

I do not know if the one she has is a gas or piston driven rifle.

[patriotman]

Ah, gotcha. Gonna have to disassemble to find that out, right?

[JohnyMac]

Yupper.

My partner in crime helping me inventory the radio gear, was a NY liberal and was not impressed with my find. Plus I wanted to keep it low key for the ladies sake.    So I did a quick inspection. I made sure it was clear and put it back away.