5.56x45 Penetrators

[Burt Gummer]

I'm currently shopping around for a bulk buy of 5.56 penetrators and I usually make a list as scout out the interwebs. I figured I'd share it with you.


5.56x45mm NATO 62 Grain "M855" SS109
Prices based on bulk purchase
PR = per round

Midway
PMC X-Tac Ammunition - $0.58 PR
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2063790165/pmc-x-tac-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-m855-ss109-penetrator-full-metal-jacket
Federal Clips in Can - $0.47 PR
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/789567/federal-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-xm855-ss109-penetrator-full-metal-jacket-10-round-clips-in-ammunition-can-of-420-14-boxes-of-30
Winchester Boxer Pri - $0.54 PR
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2900319638/winchester-ammunition-556x45-nato-62-grain-m855-ss109-penetrator-full-metal-jacket-boxer-primed
Federal American Eag - $0.50 PR
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/953113793/federal-american-eagle-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-m855-ss109-penetrator-full-metal-jacket
BlackGun Remanufactu - $0.43 PR
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/3317784410/blackgun-industries-remanufactured-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-m855-ss109-penetrator-full-metal-jacket
Doubletap Ammunition - $0.79 PR
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/675548/doubletap-ammunition-223-remington-62-grain-m855-ss109-penetrator-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-box-of-50
Prvi Partizan Ammuni - $0.48 PR
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2503116537/prvi-partizan-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-m855-ss109-full-metal-jacket

Cheaper Than Dirt
ADIsurp Clips in Can - $0.52 PR
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-299
Lake City Loose Bulk - $0.38 PR
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-223C
Federal Clips in Can - $0.41 PR
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-2491

Brownells
Federal Clips in Can - $0.45 PR
http://www.brownells.com/ammunition/rifle-ammo/5-56mm-xm855-rifle-ammunition-prod44665.aspx

J&G
ADIsurp Clips in Can - $0.55 PR
http://www.jgsales.com/5.56mm-adi-australian-defense-ind.-62gr-fmj-f1-m855-ss109-ammo,-900rd-can.-p-58232.html
Federal Clips in Can - $0.42 PR
http://www.jgsales.com/5.56mm-federal-lake-city-62gr-fmj-xm855-420rds-green-tip-ammo,-on-clips-in-can.-p-5876.html
Winchester 20rd boxs - $0.60 PR
http://www.jgsales.com/5.56mm-winchester-ammo-usa,-62gr-ss109-grn-tip-fmj,-20rd-box-p-60920.html

Buds Gun Shop
GGG Ammo GP21 in Can - $0.46 PR
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411554433/1000+Round+Can+-+5.56mm+GP21+-+SS109++M855+-+62+Grain+Penetrator+NATO+Spec+Ammo

Buy Guns & Ammo
Romanian Sadu Laquer - $0.32 PR
http://buygunsandammo.com/product/5-56-62gr-fmj-ss109-penetrator-sealed-brass-case/

Wideners Supplies
Israel Military Indu - $0.37 PR
https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=9017&dir=

Ammoman
PMC X-Tac Ammunition - $0.40 PR
http://www.ammoman.com/556x45mm-pmc-x-tac-green-tip-fmj-62-grain-556k

Aim Surplus
GGG Ammo GP21 in Can - $0.42 PR
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AGGG556M855&name=GGG+NATO+5.56x45+%28.223%29+GP21+62grn+M855%2fSS109+1%2c000rd+can&search=SS109


I think I got a pretty good cross-cut of online ammo suppliers, let me know if I forgot anyone!

I'm currently leaning towards the Lake City Bulk or the Israeli Surp.
 

[Burt Gummer]

Palmetto State Armory
Hotshot Elite Romanian - $0.319 PR
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/hotshot-elite-5-56x45mm-fmj-62-grain-penetrator-no-painted-green-tip-20rds.html
(credit to Kentactic)

[DMCakhunter]

SG Ammo
Here is a link to the 5.56 page.
http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rifle-ammunition/223-556mm

This is probably the best deal there.
http://www.sgammo.com/product/surplus/900-round-ammo-can-556mm-62-grain-m855-ball-ammunition-stripper-clips-made-denmark-a

[JohnyMac]

Burt, what's the rifle twist of your 5.56? 1:7, 1:8, 1:9 or 1:?. 

[CJS06]

I found this link to work fairly well.

http://gun-deals.com/ammo

It definitely helps save time going to each website individually.  I shoot a bunch of 62gr and 75gr though I don't use a ton of M855 "penetrator" as most people dont allow you to shoot their steel with it.  I buy a bunch of my 62 and 75gr FMJ and BTHP from Steve at Freedom Ammuntion (NOT Freedom Muntions). http://www.freedomammunition.com   I usually send an email as the website sometimes doesnt show all availability.....he is constantly manufacturing and shipping.  I also use Freedom for my 9mm as well as for my 168gr A-Max .308.

For plinking and high round count training I shoot mainly M193 55gr FMJ.  I do always run a course of fire with whatever I am going to load out with to confirm my BZO and holds . Lately I have been using 62gr Barnes TSX loaded by Steve.

[Burt Gummer]

SG Ammo
Here is a link to the 5.56 page.
http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rifle-ammunition/223-556mm]

Thanks DM
They appear to have one option for  ss109 penetrators

SG Ammo
GGG Ammo GP21 in Can - $0.46 PR
http://www.sgammo.com/product/surplus/special-purchase-1000-round-can-556mm-gp21-ss109-m855-62-grain-penetrator-nato-spec-

Burt, what's the rifle twist of your 5.56? 1:7, 1:8, 1:9 or 1:?. 

The twist is 1:9
I'm thinking I should wait with posting the rifle until I'm finished with modifying it... 

[special-k]

SGAmmo warning:

A couple of years ago I placed an order for multiple calibers/gauges with sgammo on the suggestion of an UP member.

Part of my order consisted of 500 rounds of Rio 12 gauge 00 buck.  I actually received about 2/3 of those shotgun rounds as 00 buck... the rest were #4 buck (which I did not order). 

My point is to say that, even though sgammo may have good prices, they may fuck up your order on purpose if it benefits them... just sayin'... be fore warned.  They know that you're not going to pay return shipping (on lead) to remedy THEIR mistake.



 

[Burt Gummer]

final price (+shipping)
turned out to be $0.41 PR
from Cheaper Than Dirt

 

Aaaand their sever is down.... 

[DMCakhunter]

Burt,

SS109 (european designation) and M855 (US designation) are the same, steel penetrator insert.

Special K,
Sorry to hear they messed up your order. I have not had any problems with them on my orders.

[Burt Gummer]

Burt,

SS109 (european designation) and M855 (US designation) are the same, steel penetrator insert.

Special K,
Sorry to hear they messed up your order. I have not had any problems with them on my orders.

I waited 5 minutes and it passed through...

While comparing ammunition I noticed that the "M855" designation was applied to far more ammunition then the "SS109"
The M855 appears to be describing the entire cartridge as a 5.56x45 NATO caliber 62 grain (weight) bullet instead of the traditional target 55 grain. But does not require it to have the steel core 62grain "SS109" bullet.

[DMCakhunter]

Not correct, M855 uses the SS109 bullet. Cannot be called M855 without it.
 

[brat]

If anyone needs bulk @ 2000 rounds you can go here @ .35 per.

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/federal-cartridge-xm855cs-nato-remington-steel-core-fmjbt-3025-2000-rdcase-p-120541.html

[JohnyMac]

Burt, 1:9 explains the heavier bullet. Thx.

[CJS06]

Burt, 1:9 explains the heavier bullet. Thx.

John  1:9 likes lighter bullets and is ideal with the 55gr M193.  It still handles the 62 gr ok.  For shooting heavier bullets like 62, 69, 75 and 77gr you are better off with a 1:7.  The 1:8 is a happy medium that is used mainly with Wylde chambered rifles.

[Burt Gummer]

1:9 likes lighter bullets and is ideal with the 55gr M193.  It still handles the 62 gr ok.  For shooting heavier bullets like 62, 69, 75 and 77gr you are better off with a 1:7.  The 1:8 is a happy medium that is used mainly with Wylde chambered rifles.

Could you expand on what you know about the 1:9 twist and it's ammunition preferences?
  Pleeeeaaase....

[thatGuy]

Don't do it CJS06, it's a fucking trap.

[Burt Gummer]

Is not. Just got my first 5.56 rifle

And have near to no experience with it other then military: "Here's ammunition now shoot."

[CJS06]

Don't do it CJS06, it's a fucking trap.

Hah...That is great.

The only thing I can impart about twist rate is nothing special.  Slower twist rates for lighter bullets, faster twist rates for heavier. It isnt unusual to see a 1:10 or 1:12 twist .223 varmint rifle. These will generally shoot 40-50gr bullets very well.   Slower twists dont stabilize heavy bullets well enough and fast twists can over spin the lighter bullets.

AR15 twists have gotten so over talked it isnt funny.  The 1:9 barrel was adopted for commercial sales and you will find most mil-spec ARs have a 1:7 twist. The military uses 1:7 because they use primarily M855 and now M262. In the civilian world M193 (55gr) is generally more widely available and probably why the 1:9 is so widely used. A 1:9 will shoot M855 just fine, just like my 1:7 runs M193 with no issues. What is effected is accuracy and even that really often needs to be taken with a grain of salt.  At 500yds you want to use the ideal ammo or if you are trying to make the tiniest group possible. If you are looking for "combat effective" hits from 5 to 300 yds then dont spend time over thinking it.

Although if you listen to some people the mil-spec is the only way to go......

[Erick]

Here is my 2 cents:

The "milspec" 1 in 7 is a bit suboptimal for our prepper application ( disclaimer all my barrels are sadly 1 in 7 because i own only high end rifles and that is what the market demands in them )

Little known fact but ORIGINALLY for the M16A2 that started the M855 fielding the Army was going to go with 1 in 9.

Test have shown that 1 in 9 is better not only with 55gr but even 62 gr did better in 1 in 9 than 1 in 7 (!). (though 62gr did tolerate a 1 in 7 twist ok)
The reason in the end they went with 1 in 7 was the tracer round would just not stabilize well enough in 1  in 9 but only well in 1 in 7.

And now we have been living with this ever since.

As a result of my hankering for high end rifles I own only 1 in 7 barrels so I mostly stash with 62 gr bullets (however I love the cheap steel 62 gr w/o the penetrator)

Truth be told the difference are pretty small and shooting 55gr in 1 in 7 barrels will nearly always still give you good results (partially because the absence of  a penetrator often makes for better balanced bullets IMHO)

In the end I would prefer a 1 in 9 barrel since it shoots both eqully well and still gives me the ability to shoot 69gr match ammo.

[Nemo]

To be a bit more simple and superficial on it, 1 in 7 or such means one full turn in the rifling in 7 inches.  Or whatever second number.

 The heavier bullets generally want a faster spin.  55 grain or lighter bullets generally perform better in the 1 turn in 9 inches twist.  62 grain bullets are ok with the 1 in 9 but anything heavier generally does better with a 1 turn in 7 inch twist.

Nemo

[JohnyMac]

Keep in mind, that the weight of the bullet is just one part of the equation of twist rate. Untimely coefficient determines the correct barrel rifling for your load.

Heck the 42" barrel on my Late Lancaster .54 cal flint lock has a 1:66 twist barrel. The rifle pushes a patched round ~230 gr ball at ~1,800 fps at the muzzle using 80 gr of FFF.

Like what Erick and CJS wrote, at normal battle ranges 0-300 yards, it really doesn't matter whether you have a 1:7 or 1:9 barrel twist. It's more important that you practice with what you have and move on. 

[thatGuy]

oh... jesus... oh... god... why...

So, bullet weight has less than nothing to do with this except that to make a bullet heavier when you are stuck with a fixed diameter you have to make it LONGER. The longer the projectile is the more spin you need to stabilize it, think baseball vs. 'Merican football.

As was Nemo said the ratio breaks down like this 1 Revolution: Per Inch of Barrel

Personal opinion and non-scientific study has no bearing because we are stuck with the PHYSICS of a flying object. 

That said look around your world.. do you see a lot of 40gr varmint ammo laying around? Do you know anyone setting on thousands of rounds of that crap? Hell can you even afford a good day at the range with that stuff?

No? No? No?

Then why in the fuck would you buy a barrel that is optimized to shoot it?

*drops mic, walks out.

[Burt Gummer]

Don't do it CJS06, it's a fucking trap.

OK now I get this... This is probably a gun forum pissing contest topic am I right? Had no idea. 

Thanks for the input guys!
So up to 300 use my new rounds. Beyond that use my hot Sako 55gr. got it

[JohnyMac]

Oh come on...It's fun talking about arcane things 

[Erick]

oh... jesus... oh... god... why...

So, bullet weight has less than nothing to do with this except that to make a bullet heavier when you are stuck with a fixed diameter you have to make it LONGER. The longer the projectile is the more spin you need to stabilize it, think baseball vs. 'Merican football.

As was Nemo said the ratio breaks down like this 1 Revolution: Per Inch of Barrel

Personal opinion and non-scientific study has no bearing because we are stuck with the PHYSICS of a flying object. 

That said look around your world.. do you see a lot of 40gr varmint ammo laying around? Do you know anyone setting on thousands of rounds of that crap? Hell can you even afford a good day at the range with that stuff?

No? No? No?

Then why in the fuck would you buy a barrel that is optimized to shoot it?

*drops mic, walks out.

Who has a barrel thats optimized to shoot 40 gr varmint?
Mini14? ( unsure)

I think most ppl here are running  1 in 7 (good for 62 -77 gr, in a pinch 55 will work) or 1 in 9 (great for 50-69 gr, too much really for 40gr tho in a pinch it might work)