Your Well - Free Water

[JohnyMac]

As you folks know I was able to tap into an old well/spring about 900 feet up the mountain from our cabin. I wrote about it awhile back. Well (Pun Intended) I have been pondering drilling a well closer to the cabin so I have started the research.

Here is a short article I found this morning about wells on Survivalblog.com. It would be great if you would share your stories bringing water to your homes so post 'em here.

Also if you find any articles with merit post them here to.

Thanks...

I’m curious as to if any other readers have had difficulty getting good information on hand pumps? I am not technical by any definition of the word, but here is my situation: I just purchased a homestead in the country with well water. The pump runs by electricity. I have spoken with several well drillers in the area, explaining that I want a hand pump for grid down. The stock answer is “get a generator”. I live in southeastern NC. I understand there can be problems with trying to connect a hand pump to an already existing electrically-powered well. I can afford to have a second well drilled that uses a hand pump. One company mentioned a “deep well jet pump” but indicated it is complex and something about the chlorine that needs to be used and water not being able to rise to the surface if the chlorine level is off(?). Another said the static water level must be at 10-12 feet from the surface, that a 2-inch diameter shaft would not work, and a 4-inch shaft is a “waste of money”. I was also told that a hand pump can only work to a 30-40 foot range, while another company (the jet pump company) said I could get drinkable water at 100 feet and pristine water at 200 feet. I am confused and can’t seem to find any drillers within a 75 mile radius who have any sense of preparedness. Is this a common problem and do you offer any suggestions, especially in terms of geographically-specific help? Thanks. – MB

Hugh Replies: There are two basic kinds of hand pumps in use, and the only difference is where the pump is located. In the normal “pitcher” pump that we think of, the pump valves are located in the body of the pitcher itself. The water is drawn out by means of creating a vacuum in the drop pipe inside the well by the action of the pump. The air pressure will then push the water up the pipe where the pump can push it out of the mouth. The maximum theoretical depth that these pumps work is based on the air pressure. At sea level, that is about 14psi, which equates to about 33ft. Due to loses in the system (friction), and usable flow rates, you will generally find that 24ft is about as high as these kinds of pumps will lift water. They are entirely adequate, if your water table is within that range. If you have a good cased well, you can still be using water from the 200ft level. Your well screen should be towards the bottom of the well and as you draw water off the top of the well, it will be replenished with fresh water from the bottom of the well. Even though your shallow well water may not be good for drinking, the deep water usually will be. This type of hand pump has good flow and can easily generate 20gpm from hand pump action. The Simmons 1160/PM500 is a good example of this type. With this type of pump, you will generally have a powered pump for normal operation. When you lose power, you simply pull the powered pump off and replace it with this pump.

The second type of pump actually has the pump and valves at the bottom of the drafting inlet and is usually connected by a metal or fiberglass rod in the center of the pipe to the handle at the top. These types of pumps actually push the water up the pipe, rather than relying on air pressure. Since they can generate much greater pressure, depths of 100 to 200 feet are realistic, though the volume of flow will generally be much less (usually around 1 to 3 gpm). There are a number of different types that can be used. If you have a submersible electric well pump, you can use the Bison pump inline with your submersible. If you already have a submersible pump, you can run a Simple Pump right alongside if you have a 4” casing. This is the arrangement I am currently using.

A word of caution is in order if you are drilling a new well. If you ask most well drillers how deep you need to go to get good water, they will generally give you a number. (In our area, it is 250ft). If you look at their trucks, that is how much drilling stem they have. They get paid by the foot, and if they can get you to drill deep, it’s good for them. If you have water at 12 feet, ask your county extension where good water is. You will find that in almost all areas of the United States, good water is obtainable at much less depth than a driller will tell you. Of course, you must also balance that with the characteristics of the water table in your area. If you are in a river bottom area, your water table is probably pretty stable. If you are out on the plains, it may vary considerably, and you will want to plan accordingly

[Nemo]

I may be completely in error here but IIRC a vacuum pump can only lift water 34 feet or less.  It requires the pull be pushed by the standard atmosphere pressure which counters the vacuum and lifts it.  Be that hand, electric, gas or fire truck.

I recollect from a fire truck water drafting class I took about a millennium ago and think I am correct.  But it was in the dark and lonely past so I could be dead wrong.  Do some research and make sure your pump pulls more than that if you need to go anywhere near that.

Nemo

[JoJo]

I have a well that is 64ft deep so I looked for an emergancy pump for when SHTF and I found this.
http://flojak.com/

There are others like this just google.

[JohnyMac]

JoJo, good prices too. 

[Kbop]

if the well is deeper than 32 feet - you will not be able to use a top draw well. - they mentioned that in the article.  the difference between a 'deep well' and a draw well.  if deeper than 32 feet you can't pull the water up because it will draw to a vacuum and stop.  The solution is to push it up from the bottom.  The big difference is flow rate of water -  in general a shallow well (pumping from a cistern for example) you can get a good rate of flow for each time you pump the handle.  the deeper you go the more work you need to do to get the water.   if you get a deep well, try and stay away from leather gaskets or flappers - you have to pull out the entire tube to replace them.  the upside is that you don't have to prime the deep well type pumps.  -some shallow well pumps need some water dumped into the mouth of the pump to wet the flapper and gasket so it works properly. 

I have 3 wells currently - and a back up Flojack - I got that after hurricane Sandy hit and we lost power to our all electric house for several days.
If I can ever justify the cost, the best deep well pump I could find - IMO -  was the Bison well.  http://bisonpumps.com/  it can be rigged for a wind mill too.
Another cool idea (much more portable & cheap) is a bailer bucket.  a rope, a one way valve attached to a length of PVC that will fit into the well.

How to Make a Bailer Bucket

.

One last idea.  550 cord and a tee shirt.  multi use, can be wrung into a bucket - it'll even soak up gas or diesel from a gas station tank that has run out of power.  if it will get you home it is worth the sacrifice of the cord and shirt.

[thatGuy]

This subject is way too deep (pun intended) to actually write an article on but if you guys want to shoot a question at a Certified Water System Operator feel free to hit me up and I'll do my best to answer your question.

[JohnyMac]

Thx TG...

OK here is a question: How far does a well have to be drilled from a "sand mound" septic system? From a road?

The reason I am asking is that I have to plan where my well will go. I have two places in mind but have to contend with the road and the neighbor and my sand mound.
Thx

[Nemo]

I am pretty sure you ask around the neighborhood or the driller you will be using and find a water witch.  You know, one of those people who can actually use a divining rod.  Not everyone who thinks they can actually can.  I had a long term client in the drilling business who convinced me there is an inherent art or 6th, 7th, 8th sense to it.

I am thoroughly convince a well driller can find you a 2-4 gallon a minute well.  A good witch can find you a 12-20 gallon a minute well on the same acre of land.  The truth is out there.

Nemo

[JohnyMac]

I have a perpetual wet spot at about 15 yards from the NE corner of the cabin. My neighbor wants to take a back-hoe to the spot but I have put him off. Now I realize that this is probably a surface spring and not a deep aquifer however it would be nice to have a well close to the cabin. Less pipe I will have to lay. 

[thatGuy]

Your typical Well Head Protection Plan would like to see at least 100' between your septic system and your Well John, but that's mostly horse shit..

Let me explain, lets say that you've got a layer of water bearing strata at 75' and you want to put your well 100' from your septic system.. your well head protection plan may well say that's great but what if you've got sandy loam soil till that layer of water bearing strata??

That only leaves you 125' of highly permeable soil between the shit and your lips... not cool right?

But what if you had two layers of sand stone between your system and your well? At that rate the well cap or seal is the most important component in your water systems sanitation.

So that said what I would do is go to your County Cooperative Extension Service and ask them to sit you down with a geological survey of your area. Express your goals to them. You might find out that the wet spot on your property is an upthrust or exposed band of strata that is a deep aquifer higher up on the mountain.

Worse case scenario you'll have a better understanding of the sub soil conditions your property lies on.. that's great information for gardening, well drilling, basement or root cellar construction!

Knowing is half the Battle

[JohnyMac]

LOL...Thanks Thatguy GI Joe!

[mariecurtishomes]

Possibly wet lands......be quiet...

[JohnyMac]

You are right Marie...Never mention the following words

Show content

WET LANDS

other wise the EPA will be all over ya'. 

[thatGuy]

No joke.. if you gotta say it say it slower

[Nemo]

Don't even dare call it by its old name either.  You know, some people used to say swamp.

Nemo

[chenmi]

If you Google hand pumps for wells you will come up with almost a dozens manufacturers.  They range from all stainless steel like bisonpumps.com to those with PVC components like simplepump.com.  They can push water up from as much as 300 feet.  Some can pump water into a pressurized holding tank so your faucets cat work normally.  Actually that's like pumping water up an extra 140'.  so the water level in the well would have to be less than 160'.  Solar panels and a 12V DC motor is another option.  After reading the reviews I wasn't shock to find that you typically get what you pay for.

The DC motor mentioned above is rated at 1/5 HP.  This is about what a human can produce on a bike over a long period of time.  I went to our local unclaimed bike sale and bought the last 16 bikes for a total of $12.  I have used some of the bikes wheels for carts, but have not yet gotten a hand pump for my well and harnessed a bike to pump the water.