Agua de Vida, Water of Life. Longterm

[thatGuy]

Hey Guys,

I thought I would kick this forum off with a series of articles on storage for the longterm. I know I am not going to get everything right or include every bit of information but I know you guys will get my back on this by correcting whats wrong and filling in the empty spots.

Fact: you can survive 3-5 days without water, but do you want to try it?

So lets assume that you like being hydrated, how are you going to insure a steady supply of clean drinking water for you and yours?

Springs are the best solution but not always practical. I know that in my home state of New Mexico they are few and far between and even the best have been know to go dry in a hard drought. That said if you have a year round spring you are really in a great spot. You would do well to make sure that nothing contaminates your spring and that would best be done with a spring house. See wiki page for basic info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_house The advantages of a spring house are two fold. First you are protecting your source of water and Second you are providing yourself with the means to keep things cold, which will be a real boone in WROL.

Second best would be a deep well but how are you going to pump that water up to where you can get to it? You could use a well bucket, Dave at http://livethemotto.blogspot.com/2010/02/home-made-well-bucket.html has written a great how to on well buckets but they are not the best way to skin that cat because you have to pull the jet pump or suction pipe out of the well to use them and their capacity is limited to how heavy of a bucket you can pull up and what if the rope breaks? Another "on the cheap" option is to make your own EMAS pump http://www.akvo.org/wiki/index.php/EMAS_pump. I have made several of these pumps and find them to be cheap and dependable. I have provided a link to their wiki page and I suggest you take a look, these folks are working on the big picture of water and sanitation. They have great info and all their projects are on the cheap too!

Now if money is no problem you could always track down a rebuilt Aero Motor windmill or anyone of the Solar pumps but I don't think any of us are in that position.

And that brings us to the topic of surface water and rain water collection. Surface water will need to be treated. You can use a Katadyn or Berkey filter and they work just fine but for my money I am going to use Calcium Hypochlorite sold as pool shock HTH or Hypochlorite does not kill Chrypto. UV light or Ozone does. I need to readress this.. It is cheap shelf stable bleach in powder form. As to rain water collection I am again going to refer to EMAS because they pretty well have the subject covered.

Now what I see alot of us doing is hunkering down for the first couple of weeks or months until the gun fire outside our houses dies down. For that I would recommend a large stockpile of water. Atleast 2 gallons per person per day. Now I know that thise flies in the face of the 1 gallon a day crowd but lets think about the situation we are going to be in. You will be locked down in your house suffering from whatever the elements have to offer. Stiffling heat in the summer (no AC) and biting cold in the winter (no central heat). Those conditions both require increaced intake of fluids. You will also be using that water to cook and clean with and I don't know a single prepper who has nothing but no water needed food. Most of us are rocking dry beans and rice. Plus water is cheap and easy to store now so why not put away extra?

The cheapest method I know of is to store it in used 55gallon food grade platic drums. Make sure that you sanitize the drums and remove any stink in them with baking soda. I would also suggest that you add bleach to the water at the time you fill up to prevent growth of water borne stuff. As cheap as that is I would also suggest that you stockpile cases of water not because I think that water is worth more in a easy to transport fashion but because those #1 pete bottles are perfect for the SODIS water disinfecting method http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_disinfection.

So that is the short version of my thought on water. We will add more as it gets mentioned but I wanted to jam something out so the forum wouldn't just be tits and guns.

Be good, be safe
thatGuy

[WhiteWolf]

I've stored up about 25lbs of the calcium hypochlorite. IMHO it's a sound investment. I'd like to get two or three 55 gallon drums, but I think I could manage without them. Besides, not like you can take them with you if you have to bug out in a hurry lol. I've never tried it, but I've always heard if you use bleach as a purifier you can crush up a vitamin C tablet per gallon to make it more palatable.  I figure it can't hurt anyways.

[thatGuy]

That bleach smell that you get when you treat with Calcium Hypochlorite is it off gassing. If the taste of it bothers you then you could let it evaporate off. Try it with tap water. At first it smells like pool water but leave that glass on the counter for a hour or so and when you come back it won't smell nor taste like bleach.. pretty neat huh?

This reply wasn't 100% correct. When you treat water with Clorine it does more than break down Bactieria it also bonds with all kinds of shit. Some of that shit is called Chloromite which is what you are smelling. Add more HTH or CL and the odor will go away.

[kindredspirit]

One source of water in an emergency situation that may be overlooked (I learned this during Hurricaine Floyd) is your hot water heater.  My hot water heater hold 60 gallons of water. If you have an electric water heater, turn off the power at the breaker-box. If yours is a gas heater, turn the thermostat to the "pilot" setting. Connect a hose to the drain valve located close to the thermostat, but don't open the valve yet. Turn off the cold-water supply that feeds the water-heater.  Allow the hot water inside the tank to cool to prevent scalding. Inside your house, open up one of the hot-water faucets in one of your sinks or tubs. This will prevent a vacuum from forming in the lines.. Go back to the water-heater, and open the drain valve to drain the water out of the tank into collection containers.  Discard the first few gallons if they contain rust or sediment.  Once water has been drained into clean, sanitized containers, add 5-7 drops of chlorine bleach* per gallon of water, and stir or shake the solution to mix it. Let sit for 30 minutes before using.

This is also potentially dangerous advice. If you are hooked up to the city system you may end up over dosing your water with chlorine which could be worse than what wasn't living in this otherwise clean water.

[thatGuy]

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.

Well that is about to change Simple Machine Forum!

So good news everyone, I just completed the State of New Mexico's required training for maintaining a Municipal Water System! I now know more than I ever thought there was to know about water and am ready to field any questions or concerns you may have about your potable preps. 

Let's dust off this old but important topic!  [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

[hjmoosejaw]

So that is the short version of my thought on water. We will add more as it gets mentioned but I wanted to jam something out so the forum wouldn't just be tits and guns.

Be good, be safe
thatGuy

What tits? I ain't seen no tits.   Congrats on your training completion! It's 1:56 am, and I don't have any water questions right now, but when I do, you'll be the first one I ask.

[JohnyMac]

O-Kay TG here are some questions I have:

1) How long do you have to boil water to make it drinkable? The reason I ask is I have heard all kinds of things from: Just bring it
    to boil too hours long.
2) The water we get from the old well has served us well EXCEPT in August/September. The well doesn't go dry however the level
     is so low we get sediment. Should we stop using that water?
3) We use the water from our well boiled and not boiled. We have had no issues with the exception of my sister in-law and only
    her. If she takes a shower with the well water she ends up with a yeast infection. This has happened with no other gals who
    has taken showers at our cabin. Mind over matter or?

Those are some questions I have 

[thatGuy]

When we talk about boiling water what we are doing is killing any pathogens, virus or bacteria in that water. From the CDC's BWA Info

BWA basics

 What is a "boil water advisory?"

A boil water advisory (BWA) is issued to protect the community from waterborne infectious agents. A BWA is issued only after careful consideration among representatives from public health, regulatory agencies, and municipal departments after positive tests (e.g., positive samples for fecal coliforms, changes in turbidity measurements) or line breaks.

What should I do when under a BWA?

 For personal use, create a supply of water for cooking, drinking, and tooth brushing by bringing water to a rolling boil for one minute. Timing starts when the water starts to bubble. Cool the water then place in clean containers for use or refrigerate.

Hot (not boiled) soapy water can be used for dishwashing and kitchen/bathroom surface cleaning. As a precaution, add one tablespoon of bleach per gallon. Laundry water does not need to be treated. Unless specifically listed, water for showering does not need to be treated.

So are we talking about a well or the spring you put in last year?

Anybody else in there with her?

[crudos]

I'm wondering the soundness of using plastic 2 liter soda bottles for water storage? I have a bunch filled and dated with the plan to rotate them out after a year. I know a larger, more permanent system would be better, but it's what I have and what I can afford at the moment. Read somewhere that the plastic will degrade over time, which is why my plan to rotate them out. My initial thought is a year, and then see how the bottle and water inside holds up. They are kept in the dark, in a cool basement. My other thought with this system is how portable the water is, than having 50 gallon barrels to contend with. Any thoughts?

[thatGuy]

I think you are on the right track Crudos, what ever container you have is better than one you don't for sure.

A side from some small concerns over owning soda two liters at a time I think you are doing just fine. Those bottles are #2PET plastic which is one of the most stable you can get your hands on and storing them in a cool dark place will help you across the board. Lower temps slow everything down.

Are you filling them with Treated Water (ie from your city's supply) or are you filling them with Purified Water (Reverse Osmosis)? I ask because there are a number of chemical reations that continue to take place in the water once it has chlorine in it.



I would like to add that I have changed my surface water plan. I will be securing good 4 micron filters and treating with HTH with the long term goal being a solar powered RO/UV system.

[JohnyMac]

LOL.

Yes I am speaking to the water line I installed in 2011. It is an old well that we think is being fed by a underground spring. The walls of the well are lined with blue stone.

Nooooo. Nobody is bathing with her...Far as I know 

[thatGuy]

So when you get that turbidity (what you are calling sediment) in Aug/Sept does the flow remain high enough for use or no?

[crudos]

I think you are on the right track Crudos, what ever container you have is better than one you don't for sure.

A side from some small concerns over owning soda two liters at a time I think you are doing just fine. Those bottles are #2PET plastic which is one of the most stable you can get your hands on and storing them in a cool dark place will help you across the board. Lower temps slow everything down.

Are you filling them with Treated Water (ie from your city's supply) or are you filling them with Purified Water (Reverse Osmosis)? I ask because there are a number of chemical reations that continue to take place in the water once it has chlorine in it.



I would like to add that I have changed my surface water plan. I will be securing good 4 micron filters and treating with HTH with the long term goal being a solar powered RO/UV system.

Filled from the town's water supply, which is not ideal, I know.

[JohnyMac]

Yes but no. The depth of the well goes from 5-6' to maybe 1 - 2'. We keep it covered to minimize leaves and debris from falling in the well and sunlight causing alga. Our farmer / neighbor wants us to build up the stone wall higher than the existing well wall. Then he wants to back fill the extended wall with rock for support. Then to put a more structurally secure cap on the well to keep out the aforementioned stuff and small aquatic critters. We have a resident frog who lives in our well.     

We have a Y valve on the faucet next to the house. On one of the Y's we have a hose that goes off into a field. With the exception of August/September water is being funneled to that hose and just runs constantly. In those two months we do not do that as on occasion we have lost the siphon and like I said we get a lot of sediment.

We fill buckets with the other part of the Y at the faucet.

Now we also have rain barrels filled from the roof (s). Those are only operable in spring, summer and fall. In the old days, we use to use 5 oz. of bleach (Unscented) for each 55 gallon barrel. And treat the barrels every 2-4 weeks. We used the rain water for washing and at times we would boil it for boiled stuff e.g. coffee. We do not use the bleach anymore as we use the rain barrels just for watering the garden.

As a side note: We have six ceramic filters purchased from monolithic ministries. We plan on using those if need-be in a TEOTWAWKI scenario. After all water is the backbone of any survival.

This spring, my brother and I have been planning to install a 200 gallon tank in the basement to run our indoor toilets, faucets, etc. We are looking into how to keep the tank full Vs. filling it when it runs low. I am sure it will involve a 4' deep trench running to the basement wall and a bilge switch. Oh well 



 

[thatGuy]

Crudos,

Hey no worries man, you can neutralize that chlorine if you wanted to but I don't think it is worth the effort in the long run.

Keep doing what you are doing and if you can find a couple of barrels along the way then add them to the currrent system to increase capacity. If you can score one from time to time on Craigs list for $20 bucks you should. Their usefullness knows no bounds.

I like the idea that you can move your supply around if need be and have 'Man Portable' quantities.. imagine having tens of thousands of gallons of water but not a single bottle to put it in! Oh check out the SODIS thing too, #2 bottles are perfect for it!

[thatGuy]

JMac, call me buddy. I don't have the time right now to type out a reply.

[JohnyMac]

TG, Will do...