Unchained Preppers
Communications => Radio => Topic started by: JohnyMac on March 20, 2014, 07:13:27 PM
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So what plans have you made to communicate in post SHTF or TEOTWAWKI?
Locally?
Regionally?
Nationally?
globally?
I am sure that many of us have plans to receive coms but what are you planning on using to send coms? As we all know that communication will be your life and breath of survival.
Old JohnyMac:
> Locally = FRS and 2 meter ham transmitter and receiver
> Regionally = 2 & 10 meter ham transmitter and receiver
> Nationally = limited 10 meter ham transmitting and Very Good Short & Long wave receiver
> Globally = Good short and long wave receiver
We are planning on no or limited cell phone or hard wire coverage. If they go out so will internet.
Lets take a minute to learn from each other.
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100 miles of paracord(pricey but worth it) and 2 Dixie cups(might upgrade to SOLO cups soon).
Just kidding dont let my nothing to contribute self ruin your thread. I would like to buy some radios for short range com's some day though.
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:lmfao: Ken!
Think about it bro...First look at a receiver like a Grundig.
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100 miles of paracord(pricey but worth it) and 2 Dixie cups(might upgrade to SOLO cups soon).
Just kidding dont let my nothing to contribute self ruin your thread. I would like to buy some radios for short range com's some day though.
Hmm...might be better than my idea....
Yodelling - Franzl Lang (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQhqikWnQCU#)
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:facepalm: Oh my God!
A am dealing with a bunch knuckleheads!
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A red solo cup ??????
Toby Keith - Red Solo Cup (Unedited Version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKZqGJONH68#ws)
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A red solo cup ??????
Yes sir the very same lol...
Fun fact for ya... the little step at the bottom is exactly one ounce, ideal for measuring shots etc.
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Great video brat! :thumbsUp:
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I didn't know that about the ring on the Solo cup. I was always too busy making sure I wasn't shorted out of 16 oz. :cheers:
Back to topic JM,
I have FRS / GMRS and dual band 2/10 ham. I don't have an antenna for home, but plan to get a mobile and antenna for the truck. Ham and shortwave for receiving info, but as far a getting info out, I'll have to pass on info to other locals with better rigs.
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My brother (Stockpile77) gave me a car antenna for my truck to hook up to my Baofeng radio. I didn't install it on my truck. Instead I installed it at the peak of my roof inside the cabin. HOLY CRAP! my range went from 4 miles with the antenna that came with the radio to sky is the limit.
I have been picking up police station calls as far away as 50 miles. Now I am sure I am only picking up their radio tower that is on top of a mountain but still...
I am taking a home learned class to get my Technical Ham license. Apparently nobody around me gives classes anymore. I local HAM instructor told me it is because mores code isn't required anymore to get your Technical.
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I just figured that when I see smoke on the horizon, it is time to load magazines.
Seriously, I have a couple of garmin rino 120's. Have thought about getting a couple of UHF radios some day.
What type of Grundig are you talking about?
Thanks.
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We have two Grundig (One is none two is one) older versions of the S450 DLX. One is packed away and one we use daily while at the cabin. It works great!
We also have a battery charger that charges D batteries using our solar system. It takes 4 D batteries.
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Thank you!
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So I just bought a Baofeng UV-5R and Wouxun mic that accepts earphones etc show in the video below...
http://youtu.be/Ib9zzbXCb-s
... I really dont understand this radio stuff yet... can you use this radio without repeaters? As in transmit from my radio to his directly? Are there any frequencies that this radio would have that an unlicensed user could use?
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I have the UV-5 too. You need repeaters to transmit over a long distance.
A way to look at it is all those antennas on the top of mountains repeat your transmition. With that info you need a HAM call sign to use those transmitters.
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I have the UV-5 too. You need repeaters to transmit over a long distance.
A way to look at it is all those antennas on the top of mountains repeat your transmition. With that info you need a HAM call sign to use those transmitters.
Well long distance isnt my goal really. If I need long distance then needing the government to maintain my way of communicating is not ideal. Can this radio operate on other channels with its own signal for short distance, similar to walkie talkies for example? If it cant do that ive got a UV-5R for sale.
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Let me do some clarifications in plain English, radio specialists please forgive me :D
* You can transmit directly with your UV-5R to any other radio that operates in the same frequency.
* UV-5R works on VHF/UHF frequency range, those frequencies are "line of sight" frequencies, that means that if you have big objects in the middle (mountains/hills/cities) they will obstruct signal propagation, seriously impacting your ranges. If you have a free "line of sight" to your target probably your transmission will reach it, objects beyond the horizon won't be reached by VHF/UHF.
* Although buildings stop VHF/UHF signals they will penetrate them anyway, but range is seriously reduced. Inside a city sometimes you'll have good range and others not depending where you are. For instance inside a tunnel you're fucked, at the top of a high building you won't have problems.
* It doesn't matter if you use a Yaesu, ICOM or shitty Chinese radio, all of them will have the same range/obstruction problems, because range depends on the frequency they operate, not on the hardware.
* Using repeaters you can "jump over" those obstructing objects, that's why usually repeaters are on top of mountains/hills.
* To transmit to long ranges you need to use radios that operate in a lower frequency range, HF. Usually those radios need big antennas, and are bigger and heavier.
* You need a license for all of the mentioned frequencies HF/VHF/UHF.
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I have the UV-5 too. You need repeaters to transmit over a long distance.
A way to look at it is all those antennas on the top of mountains repeat your transmition. With that info you need a HAM call sign to use those transmitters.
Well long distance isnt my goal really. If I need long distance then needing the government to maintain my way of communicating is not ideal. Can this radio operate on other channels with its own signal for short distance, similar to walkie talkies for example? If it cant do that ive got a UV-5R for sale.
The UV-5R is so much better than a walkie talkie or other kinds of similar radios. But the only way to satisfy yourself is to take it out and test it in terrain of your AO.
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Let me do some clarifications in plain English, radio specialists please forgive me :D
* You can transmit directly with your UV-5R to any other radio that operates in the same frequency.
* UV-5R works on VHF/UHF frequency range, those frequencies are "line of sight" frequencies, that means that if you have big objects in the middle (mountains/hills/cities) they will obstruct signal propagation, seriously impacting your ranges. If you have a free "line of sight" to your target probably your transmission will reach it, objects beyond the horizon won't be reached by VHF/UHF.
* Although buildings stop VHF/UHF signals they will penetrate them anyway, but range is seriously reduced. Inside a city sometimes you'll have good range and others not depending where you are. For instance inside a tunnel you're fucked, at the top of a high building you won't have problems.
* It doesn't matter if you use a Yaesu, ICOM or shitty Chinese radio, all of them will have the same range/obstruction problems, because range depends on the frequency they operate, not on the hardware.
* Using repeaters you can "jump over" those obstructing objects, that's why usually repeaters are on top of mountains/hills.
* To transmit to long ranges you need to use radios that operate in a lower frequency range, HF. Usually those radios need big antennas, and are bigger and heavier.
* You need a license for all of the mentioned frequencies HF/VHF/UHF.
Thank you for the plain English breakdown. This helps me decide the age old question, "to fuck with or not to fuck with".
One more question. Does this radio have any usable channels outside the realm of license requirements? And if not then how was I able to purchase such a powerful, long range radio, similar to what the military would use, with no background check or 10 day waiting period? Nobody needs to talk that well. This is basically an assault radio.
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I have the UV-5 too. You need repeaters to transmit over a long distance.
A way to look at it is all those antennas on the top of mountains repeat your transmition. With that info you need a HAM call sign to use those transmitters.
Well long distance isnt my goal really. If I need long distance then needing the government to maintain my way of communicating is not ideal. Can this radio operate on other channels with its own signal for short distance, similar to walkie talkies for example? If it cant do that ive got a UV-5R for sale.
The UV-5R is so much better than a walkie talkie or other kinds of similar radios. But the only way to satisfy yourself is to take it out and test it in terrain of your AO.
Roger that!
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So reading more it seems the UV-5R can be used as a standard FRS type radio. Thats good to hear. All I was looking for was a person to person radio that was of decent quality. And had the features like the seperate mic etc.
To anyone who owns a UV-5R, do I have to buy the USB cable and software to use this radio? I see a lot of people "manually programming" their radios. Im not sure if that is just to insert new data long after uploading software via the USB cable or if the USB cable just makes these tasks simpler. Again I just need person to person coms.
@JMac - I hope this is within the scope of your thread. If not i can start a new one to ask dumb questions about how to tell if its my ass or a hole in the ground.
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LOL, an assault radio...
I dunno how it is in the US but in Argentina you can own a radio, but you should not transmit unless you have a license.
You can perfectly program the UV-5R without using the USB cable, just using the menus, and you should learn to use it that way, you never know where you'll need to program a new repeater in your radio, and maybe you won't have a computer nearby.
The USB cable only allows you to name memories, and is commonly used to program the same frequencies in multiple radios quickly, for instance for a show or something like that.
The best manuals and programing guides for the UV-5R are here: http://www.miklor.com/uv5r/ (http://www.miklor.com/uv5r/)
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LOL, an assault radio...
I dunno how it is in the US but in Argentina you can own a radio, but you should not transmit unless you have a license.
You can perfectly program the UV-5R without using the USB cable, just using the menus, and you should learn to use it that way, you never know where you'll need to program a new repeater in your radio, and maybe you won't have a computer nearby.
The USB cable only allows you to name memories, and is commonly used to program the same frequencies in multiple radios quickly, for instance for a show or something like that.
Bingo! Thanks for the info. Ill be using this radio in the FRS 462-467Mhz range as im starting to understand. Thats a frequency that doesn't need licenses. Little kids with $5 walkie talkies can use it. I will definitely save $10 and learn to manually program the radio.
If the SHTF i could start using better frequencies if need be. For my current purposes the FRS will do just fine.
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...Ill be using this radio in the FRS 462-467Mhz range...
Just to clarify, it's not 462Mhx *through* 467Mhz...... It's some frequencies that are in the 462.XXXMhz range, AND some frequencies that are in the 467.XXXMhz range.
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A couple of things Ken:
1) No worries posting here however there are several topics on the Baofeng currently that may answer
many of your questions. Just search the archives.
2) As APX wrote, save your $10- and program your UV-5 manually. I bought the cable and found out the
hard way it will not work with Windows 8.
3) The UV-5 is a very good radio. Not the most intuitive when trying to program it however the clarity is
so much better than the FRS radios we have. The battery seems to last for ever. :fuckYeah:
4) Up at the cabin we use marine band frequency's to transmit and receive. We use Marine Band (http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtVhf)
frequency's because we are hundreds of miles from shipping lanes and such.
5) The antenna that comes with the radio works well. But like I wrote above, we took a car radio antenna and
put it up in the peak of the roof. The reception is incredible and can receive police dispatcher call up to 50
miles away. As my brother drove home from hunting this year, with his car antenna and the car
antenna located in the peak of the cabin; we were able to chat when my brother would crest the top of
a hill or mountain for quite awhile.
6) Make sure you google the frequency that your local police department uses and plug it into the radios
memory. For entertainment on Friday nights, we listen to the county police dispatcher. One night we
listened to the local Fire Company check out smoke at a friends business so add your local fire depart-
ments frequency too. These all can be found on the internet.
Have fun!
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Fun stuff guys thanks!
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Btw, you can't use your beofeng on the frs bands.. Its way to powerful.
You need a ham license for anything over 1 watt and your bro is 4 watts.
Totally an assault radio.
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Btw, you can't use your beofeng on the frs bands.. Its way to powerful.
You need a ham license for anything over 1 watt and your bro is 4 watts.
Totally an assault radio.
Yeah I gotcha, its not part 95 certified to run under the .5 watts power level. Im not recommending anyone do so because it is illegal but the UV-5R on low power setting runs at 1 watt and approximately 5 watts on full power. Furthermore nobody would really know if you were running at .5 watts or 5 watts. Keep this in mind for uh... SHTF scenarios. Of course FRS frequencies will be jammed with every helpless idiot screaming for help on little Timmy's toy walkie talkies when the SHTF but yeah..
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HAM radio operate in several deferent bands. 440/2meter, 6Meter, and 10 Meter only require a Technician License. 12 Meter, 15 meter, 17 meter, 20 meter, 40 meter, 60 meter and 160 meter all require at least a General or Extra. The different bands have their purpose as to when they are the best time and conditions to operate. Each Band has an emergency frequency that you can monitor. I would use 440/2meter for my local personal commo. Even 6meter and 10 meter for extended distance. Keep the HF frequencies for monitoring and talking to further stations. Like other states or countries.
the main purpose of communicating in an emergency situation is to gather information. To learn situations in other areas, close and far from you. One of the biggest problems is that HAM radio is not secure. Everyone can hear it, good guys and bad guys. So you may get some miss-information. Which is common in any situation. So getting your license and establishing good solid contacts becomes more important. Plus learning the procedures for joining or starting a net (used to determine how many stations are operating) It may also help you determine who to trust. In a real TEOTWAWKI, a HAM license is not required. Knowing how to use a HAM radio is. Best to learn now. Also, morse code requires the least amount of power, You may want to get familiar with morse code as well. It is a fun parent and child project.
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11 meter "free band" (http://unchainedpreppers.com/forum/internet-opsec/communication-with-board-members-in-wrol/msg3981/#msg3981) is the shiznit IMHO...... if you don't mind dabbling with the dark side. >:D
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Kokopelli wrote:
So getting your license and establishing good solid contacts becomes more important. Plus learning the procedures for joining or starting a net (used to determine how many stations are operating) It may also help you determine who to trust.
Great point! :thumbsUp:
I tried to pick up a class to get my Technical but it was filled. The instructor told me to get the Gordon West book Technician Class 2010-2014 (http://www.amazon.com/Technician-Class-2010-2014-Gordon-West/dp/0945053622/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396962724&sr=8-1&keywords=gordon+west+technician+class). He explained that today is really only what you need to take your Technicians License.
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11 meter "free band" is the shiznit IMHO...... if you don't mind dabbling with the dark side. >:D
Solid copy Dreamweaver, lot of information (mostly bad) on the 11m. I got one in my truck because the traffic reports are more realistic then on the am dial.
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11 meter "free band" is the shiznit IMHO...... if you don't mind dabbling with the dark side. >:D
Solid copy Dreamweaver, lot of information (mostly bad) on the 11m. I got one in my truck because the traffic reports are more realistic then on the am dial.
I copy that Candy Cane. :lmfao:
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Technician is ok for local, I would get at least a General to make sure you can use the lower bands. These bands can get you around the world. It is not difficult. My son was 12 when he got his license.
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Well Kokopelli, he had a good teacher. :thumbsUp:
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Thank you Mr. Mac, But I cant take credit for that. He is a lot smarter then me. Although I would never admit that to him. lol
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It would be nice to arrange a net with a few locals in here. We would at least get to hear each others voices. Plus it would be fun making it work
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I am game!
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Hope you got my returned message. Not sure if I did it correctly. If not, let me know.
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Yupper Ko' Thanks! :thumbsUp:
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Considering some of the comments from recent events in Nevada, how do we communicate when someone has disabled the cell network, likely wired phones too and is monitoring the airwaves?
Which may be jammed at their whim.
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DM..Exactly! That is why I started this thread.
IMO, news gathering is #1, then comes local two-way communication #2 and last large distance two-way communication.
Local can be as simple as a flare fired to popping smoke or using a old wired field phone.
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Remember that everyone is dependent on electronic communications. You are correct, Cell phones will be out. Airwaves can be jammed and/or monitored. The second you key up to talk, they can locate you. In HAM radio, there are many bands of frequencies to work with. You can set up a system of truncating frequencies so that you can continue to find clear signals. Knowing they are monitored, you can code your conversation. Kinda like we used to do in the military. With today's technology, you can not hide radio signals. So you do it in plain site. There are all kinds of way to get what you need done. You just need to think about it now that you don't need it.
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I thought I would throw this in here. This is an actual emergency plan that everyone will use. You can amend it for your small group. But General traffic from other groups will be passed through these frequencies.
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Sweet thanks for sharing kokopelli.
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Good find kokopelli :thumbsup:
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What Kokopelli shared is an AMRRON's CH3 cheatsheet, you can find more at: http://www.amrron.com/ (http://www.amrron.com/)
Also this video is an intro to the project
COMMS UP! An Introduction to AmRRON (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMkAiNy2v3k#ws)
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Cool
Thanks Apex
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Hand arm signals.
Locally I guess. Lol
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This whole "line of sight" thing bothers me a bit because there's a big ass mountain right between us and our BOL and being able to maintain comms with the guys there is kinda a big deal. I don't particularly want to take a 3 day hike over a mountain without knowing you the BOL is secure.
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You could mount a rogue repeater on the top of one of the mountains easily, the problem is that someone could see it and stole it.
Or you can use HF, but equipment is bulkier and isn't as cheap and probably you'll need a license and more knowledge to operate it.
Choose your poison :cowboy:
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As APX wrote...Your best option on top of "said" mountain is a repeater or bumping signals off the ionosphere, e.g. Morse code.
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This whole "line of sight" thing bothers me a bit because there's a big ass mountain right between us and our BOL and being able to maintain comms with the guys there is kinda a big deal. I don't particularly want to take a 3 day hike over a mountain without knowing you the BOL is secure.
Can I ask how far your location - as you would walk it - is to the top of the mountain from your location? It is a bit wonky, but could you run your TX line to an antenna on the mountain? Or could you use high gain antennas and to a two antenna patch? it works better with higher freqs. and directional antennas. if the wavelength is too long, you could use a D/E/F layer skip (mentioned earlier) but it is chancy - there are a bunch of variables and the layers change properties at night (they go to sleep, sorta).
One other question - are there any power lines (HV transmittion type)? running close to you and your BOL? That could be an option.
BTW, I'm no Elmer but I'm on good terms with RF TX/RX.
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I do think that shortwave/HF is my best bet (and I'm really just deducing this from online research). It is possible to set up a repeater on the mountain but I'm less worried about it being stolen than I am of fending off baboons and leopards or possibly being shot on sight while I'm up there. Running any kind of cable is not gonna work, there's about 60 kms of suburbia and informal settlements between me and the mountain. And from what I've read getting a shortwave licence is something that is actually quite easy here, all you need is to join a club and they do all the paperwork for you. What effect does weather have on shortwave?
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This whole "line of sight" thing bothers me a bit because there's a big ass mountain right between us and our BOL and being able to maintain comms with the guys there is kinda a big deal. I don't particularly want to take a 3 day hike over a mountain without knowing you the BOL is secure.
Can I ask how far your location - as you would walk it - is to the top of the mountain from your location? It is a bit wonky, but could you run your TX line to an antenna on the mountain? Or could you use high gain antennas and to a two antenna patch? it works better with higher freqs. and directional antennas. if the wavelength is too long, you could use a D/E/F layer skip (mentioned earlier) but it is chancy - there are a bunch of variables and the layers change properties at night (they go to sleep, sorta).
One other question - are there any power lines (HV transmittion type)? running close to you and your BOL? That could be an option.
BTW, I'm no Elmer but I'm on good terms with RF TX/RX.
I have no idea what any of what you just said means.
Have I mentioned that I'm completely retarded when it comes to comms? Well not COMPLETELY. I have experience BUILDING radio, TV, broadcast systems so I might recognise some of the equipment and I could put a system together from a rough diagram but I never learnt about the actual theoretical workings of any of it.
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@thedigininja, go visit your local HAM club, they probably know how to solve the mountain issue and will explain you all the details, who knows, maybe they already have a repeater working.
HF has a lot of determining factors depending on ionosphere conditions, frequency, distance, antenna, transmitting power etc, so you'll need to worry about more things than weather. Usually rain will screw conditions and electric storms will generate noise that will affect you even if they aren't above you.
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TheDigiNinja, I think joining the an amateur radio club like APX808 mentioned makes good sense.
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So this mountain that's chockablock with leopards and gunmen... you plan on walking over it or around it?
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I think so too, Kbop.
Depends on the circumstances, TG, but going over is definitely worst case scenario. There are 2 roads through it (1 of which is plan A the other plan C). 2 roads around, 1 short (plan B) and 1 long(I'll probably go over before I opt for that route). And then there's also the option of sailing around as the southern most point leads into a harbour which would likely be higher on my list if I didn't hate large bodies of water.
And that's all only if I don't get through before the roads are clogged.
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So what plans have you made to communicate in post SHTF or TEOTWAWKI?
Locally?
Regionally?
Nationally?
globally?
I am sure that many of us have plans to receive coms but what are you planning on using to send coms? As we all know that communication will be your life and breath of survival.
Old JohnyMac:
> Locally = FRS and 2 meter ham transmitter and receiver
> Regionally = 2 & 10 meter ham transmitter and receiver
> Nationally = limited 10 meter ham transmitting and Very Good Short & Long wave receiver
> Globally = Good short and long wave receiver
We are planning on no or limited cell phone or hard wire coverage. If they go out so will internet.
Lets take a minute to learn from each other.
10 meters has not been open for more than a year now.
And with our planetary system going into a solar minimum the likes of which has not been seen since the 1400's, it is likely that it won't open up again - like we saw in the 1950's, 60's and 70's for another 400 years..
I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket, and I would try for 20 and 40 meters if I were you.
At least you would have the opportunity to talk to some people that were in the same boat as you.
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I do think that shortwave/HF is my best bet (and I'm really just deducing this from online research). It is possible to set up a repeater on the mountain but I'm less worried about it being stolen than I am of fending off baboons and leopards or possibly being shot on sight while I'm up there. Running any kind of cable is not gonna work, there's about 60 kms of suburbia and informal settlements between me and the mountain. And from what I've read getting a shortwave license is something that is actually quite easy here, all you need is to join a club and they do all the paperwork for you. What effect does weather have on shortwave?
To get an amateur radio license to operate phone on the HF bands, other than 10 meters, you need to pass at least two amateur radio exams.
Both of which are 35 questions, multiple guess, with a 70% grade or better on the exams.
Technically it isn't called Short Wave - I think that is a broadcasting term...
Putting up a repeater isn't going to solve any of your problems, it just causes more problems.
If you don't already have enough things to do with your life, just put up a repeater and see how many problems you can have! Repeaters are a P.I.T.B...
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Good points Shadow. And what happens when (not if) the power to the repeater goes down? And while a solar-powered repeater could be an option, it only good until some yokel comes by and decides to do some riot shopping at your site.
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Well Crudo's - yes you are right, but it goes much deeper than that.
As an example, lets use 6 meters first.
6 meters - is more ground following - like 10 / 11 meters - CB radio than 2 meters.
This means that the signal stays closer to the ground and will go up over one hill and down over the other side, and it acts a little more like HF than VHF.
Problems with 6 meters -
Anything on the tower, 9 feet long, or multiples of 9 feet acts like a radiator - antenna, and messes up the radiation pattern of the antenna.
With 6 meters it is very important that everything on the tower is tight, no loose guy wires, grounds etc.
When the band opens up, signals from hundreds and even thousands of miles away drifts in.
When it storms, the band gets so noisy, you can't hardly hear anything with your transceiver.
The antenna is large, but doesn't have to be at the top of the tower to work, which means that someone has to climb the tower to put up the antenna, and maintain the antenna system.
The duplexers used to separate the transmit signal from the received signal are very large - 6 feet tall - looks a lot like hot water heaters than the little coffee pots used for 70 cm - 440 MHz.
You wouldn't be able to lug this type of a repeater up to the top of a mountain and just put it up on a moments notice - you would have to build it and maintain it in advance.
You would have to get a coordinated pair of frequencies that wouldn't interfere with another coordinated repeater elsewhere. Which is hard to do.
And you would need a link frequency above 220 Mhz that you could use to control the repeater - since it would be illegal to put up a repeater and then just walk away from it.
2 meters -
Two meters requires the use of a better antenna - a station master antenna is in the neighborhood of about $1100.00
You have to use hardline - not coax. Very expensive, both for the hardline and the connectors.
You have to pay to get tower space or build your own tower.
You need to have the antenna as high as you can possibly get it.
The duplexers are very expensive - because everyone is looking for a good set - used, so there is very little good used equipment for sale at a reasonable price.
You have to find a pair of frequencies that you can use that is not already in use and you have to get them coordinated. No use building a repeater for 146.940 Mhz if there is already another repeater within 120 miles of your location.
Its not very easy to change the length of the coax jumpers for the duplexers or retune the antenna - good antennas are usually purpose built frequency designed from the factory to have a low VSWR.
2 meters is hard to use Solar Power just due to the amount of equipment available - most hams has some type of 2m equipment and you can only get so many watts of power per a day out of a solar panel. Which means you would either have to reduce transmit power - which would bring complaints from the users when their handheld can't transmit and receive it's signal.
You would have tower rent to pay every month - before TSHTF and you would need access to the tower site after TSHTF.
You would need a coordinated link frequency above 220 Mhz and you would probably have to join the repeater council to ensure that your coordinated frequency pair isn't stolen from you and given to someone that is friends with the people that runs the repeater council.
Its a PITB!
70 CM -
70 CM - ( 440 Mhz) by nature is much easier to get a coordinated pair, just due to the fact that the repeater usually only has a service contour area of about 60 miles - 30 miles in any direction from the base of the tower for the repeater.
The path loss is greater than 2 meters and is dependent upon time of year, since the leaves on the trees can block reliable reception.
You need a very good tower location and you need to get the antenna as high up or at the top of the tower if possible.
You would need a link frequency above 70 CM or below 70 CM - since cross talk between the link and the repeater would mess up the link and you could loose control of the repeater.
Here a dedicated phone line - copper, unpublished telephone number works well.
This also gives you the ability to have a phone patch connected to the repeater...
With 70 CM - using hardline is a must!
I have participated with some prepper groups that thought that all they needed to do to establish a repeater was tie two handheld radios together, put them in a tool box, run a piece of coax up the side of the tower, and put up their own rogue antenna on the tower and a solar panel or two on the fence to charge the handheld batteries.
The problem with trying to do something like this is that you have no way of controlling it and the loss in the feed line negates any gains you get from putting the antenna up in the air higher with coax.
Not having a coordinated pair and the repeater not being able to identify itself every 10 minutes is what gets you in trouble.
Sooner or later, someone will come along, discover it, destroy it and then you loose what ever you thought you would gain by putting up your own rogue repeater...
Some tower owners will get upset if they visit their tower and find an uninvited guest occupying space on their tower, interfering with their legal communications...
Anyway you look at it - building a repeater is not cheap, maintaining a repeater is very expensive, and owning a repeater can be a PITB...
Anytime your repeater breaks, the users expects you to drop everything and run up to the repeater site and fix it as soon as possible.
And if the repeater runs away - gets stuck in transmit or has a unauthorized user that is breaking the rules as per the Part 97 - you, not the person breaking the rules is responsible for the content on your repeater. So basically other people can get you into trouble for acting up on your repeater, and your repeater itself can cause problems for which you are responsible.
At least when you talk simplex, the only person you are responsible for is you!
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Holy crap, that's some solid info you got there.
Of course I'm going to take your word for all of it because I realised that I really don't get radio. It's all voodoo! Comms is officially not my department.
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Holy crap, that's some solid info you got there.
Of course I'm going to take your word for all of it because I realised that I really don't get radio. It's all voodoo! Comms is officially not my department.
Ok,
My question to you is, how big is your group?
How far apart do you plan to be spread out?
What have you purchased so far - in two way radio equipment?
What do you know how to do and how much are you willing to learn?
Have you ever installed a PL or a N type connector on the end of a piece of coax?
Have you ever put up a antenna before? Did it work properly?
Do you know how to put up a antenna?
Do you know how to do basic wiring?
Do you understand that a radio that transmits needs more power then say a car stereo, and do you know how to do a mobile install?
Have you installed any two way radio equipment in your vehicle yet?
Do you have any type of a license to use a radio - more than just a cb radio?
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OK, after reading and trying to begin to comprehend some of that info, I am still stuck with a couple empty bean cans and some of the 52 miles of 20 pound test fishing line I have.
Nemo
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A good number of us in our group used to work in broadcasting. We built film, tv, radio and recording studios. So the wiring is no problem with us.
I learn very quickly but I know that when it comes to the more technical things I learn more like a remarkably intelligent chimp, you show me something once and I can do it but that doesn't mean that I understand it.
I like nemo's idea.
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You need to have a plan.
Most Prepper groups has a meeting point, a place that all the members of their party can get to in times of troubles from which they can bug out.
I have read all type of plans, everything from four wheel drive trucks to bicycles.
For this you need some type of local communications.
One solution is to contact someone that does two way radios and rent their repeater.
This would give you local communications for a fee and no one would have to become hams or take a test.
When you get to where you are going, you can use some type of UHF simplex - usually requires some type of license. GMRS would work well for that.
To find out what is going on in the world you would need some type of HF radio and a working antenna. You wouldn't be able to operate, but at least you would be able to listen.
The key is to get everyone on the same frequency.
Amateur radio would teach you how to operate and how to deploy your antenna and how to operate = even low power, off solar panels and automobile batteries.
The license just gives you the ability to transmit - it doesn't really teach you much of anything.
It is what you do with the license - after you get it that counts!
To put it into simpler terms, the license allows you to experiment!
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I know this is an old post but I just had to comment. Ham radio is the only way to go. All of your Receivers or Tranceivers (HF,VHF,UHF) should be capable of operating on 12 volts. In a pinch you can power them with your car. There are a lot of comments about using repeaters. That is plan A. You have to be prepared for Plan B. Plan B is the use of simplex because the repeaters may not be operating. I have Tranceivers for 160 through 10 Meters, 2 meters, 220 Mhz, and 440 Mhz. They can and will break down. I have backups. On HF, there is an old Ham saying: "If you ain't gettin' there, add more wire." Its true. On VHF and UHF add more height. Its actually pretty easy to get a Baofeng handi-talkie to go 20 Miles on simplex (Base Station to Base Station) if you set up your station right.