Drug Turn ins.

[pkveazey]

I don't know how it is in your area but I'm constantly hearing about "Drug Turn Ins". Say what??? You'd have to be crazy to turn in your old drugs to be destroyed. Those same idiots who turn in all their old or unused drugs must not think 2 inches past their nose. What are they going to do when the SHTF and they need a prescription for something they turned in and now they can't get or afford to get what they need? Well, they're either going to suffer or possibly die. I had a chat with our family Dr. and asked him about old medicines and he said that they either should work just fine or possibly be a bit weaker than they were when they were fresh. The Liberals that are promoting these drug turn ins claim it's for environmental reasons. They say that they should not be flushed down the toilet because they are harmful to the environment. Well, I say that a dead corps rotting is also bad for the environment. If only they hadn't turned those drugs in they might still be alive.

[RB in GA]

OK, not medical advice, but my personal beliefs as a recently retired nurse. It really matters what the drug is. Some drugs can be deadly if expired (example: doxycycline).  The Mayo clinic published a paper some years ago that had service life extensions on various drugs. https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(15)00777-6/pdf
As far as I can tell it's accurate.  I tested it on some 7 year old antibiotics last year, 6 months past the SLE date: because I was loathe to throw away unused anti-biotics. Believe me when I say don't do this. 2 days worth of severe cramping and runs, with no noticeable improvement in the condition I was taking them for. 7 months earlier, the same drug was usable without side effects at an increased dosage.

[Nemo]

More on that.

Nemo

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/is-it-ok-to-use-medications-past-their-expiration-dates

from above cite
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB954201508530067326

[JohnyMac]

Great discussion and info. 

[pkveazey]

Yep, I was right and so was my Dr. but I should have added a caveat to my comment. You have to know which drugs don't last forever. My first thought was insulin because its a common drug and needs to be kept in the refrigerator and in the dark and it clearly won't last a long time. As part of my Prepper plans, I have 3 friends who are Doctors and If it was possible, I would contact them before taking any of my older medications. The funny thing is, One is my Primary Care Doctor, another is a retired Orthopedic Surgeon who is also a Ham Radio operator, and the third is a Gynecologist who is a Guitar buddy. RB in Ga. is right on the money with his comment about Doxycycline. I could be wrong because my memory isn't what it used to be  but I read something about Doxy as a drug of last resort because of the terrible and sometimes permanent side effects. But some Doctors prescribe it as a first choice when they shouldn't be doing that. Good comments RB.

[Felix]

Great info/reminders...
I've kept prescriptions and fish-tank anti-biotics in the dark/cold for years along with cheat sheets for which to apply in which circumstance in what dosage.    And assumed all to be stable, perhaps losing some umphh but not "going bad"
The doxy alert is big news.   Will have to go through and place warnings/parameters  on all dates for everything I have as their time in storage extends.
Any sources that don't simply tell you to "turn everything in" where safety and efficacy are honestly discussed?

[Nemo]

Info on cyclines in general. 

Nemo

https://www.drugs.com/answers/long-doxycycline-safe-979226.html

    Q & A
    Questions

How long is doxycycline safe to keep?

Asked
    13 Mar 2014 by JD01
Updated
    13 March 2014   
Topics
    acne, doxycycline

I HAVE A BOTTLE OF DOXYCYCLINE I WAS TAKING FOR ACNE .IT IS 5 YEARS OLD. WILL IT HARM ME TO TAKE NOW ?
Answers
14 Mar 2014

Absolutely! This group of antibiotics called tetracyclines can actually become toxic with age. They are no longer any good-get rid of them! With other classes of antibiotics, mainly age effects their potency by decreasing it so they are no longer effective but tetracyclines can actually harm you to take them because the chemical composition can become toxic. It is never a good idea to take unused antibiotics for a number of reasons. One of the biggest reasons is the fact that antibiotics have to be taken in a course. You need a certain number of pills for a certain number of days to kill an infection. This is why you should always take ALL of your pills even if you feel better before the course of treatment is over. If you do not take the full course, it leads to antibiotic resistance by the bacteria. The bacteria are exposed to this antibiotic but not enough to kill it off so it can actually build up a resistance and that antibiotic will no longer work on this specific strain of bacteria. You have heard of an organism called MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus)? Staphylococcus aureus is a very common bacterial strain that lives on everybody's skin. Our immune system and balance of "good" bacteria vs "bad" bacteria keeps us healthy and keeps staph from giving us active infection, most of the time, but in certain conditions will allow us to get a "staph infection" S. aureus or "staph" can cause a range of illnesses, from minor skin infections, such as acne pimples, impetigo, boils (furuncles), cellulitis folliculitis, carbuncles, scalded skin syndrome, and abscesses, to life-threatening diseases such as pneumonia, meningitis, osteomyelitis, endocarditis, toxic shock syndrome (TSS), bacteremia, and sepsis. Its incidence ranges from skin, soft tissue, respiratory, bone, joint, endovascular to wound infections. It is still one of the five most common causes of nosocomial (hospital acquired infections are called nosocomial infection and usually involve the resistant kind) infections and is often the cause of postsurgical wound infections. Each year, some 500,000 patients in American hospitals contract a staphylococcal infection. Staph evolved into the resistant strain MRSA mainly by people not taking their medications (antibiotics) correctly so certain staph strains began to get resistant. A lot of people think when they feel better, they can just stop their antibiotics. If you dont need it, why take it, right? WRONG!! This is a prime example of how to end up being colonized with MRSA (colonized means the bacteria is present on your skin but you dont have active infection.) A person should NEVER have "left over antibiotics" because you should always finish the full course for the full amount of days. One possible exception is if your Dr cultures a wound and starts you on a broad spectrum antibiotic before getting the culture results and then he finds out that drug he gave is not effective against the infection and so he changes the antibiotic, even then, they will often have you finish both now to help avoid resistance since your body has a number of different bacteria strains on you and in you at all times. Antibiotics do not discriminate between the good beneficial strains and the bad ones. If they are susceptible, it kills them. Another reason is over use. For years, if a person, especially children, came to the doctor or pediatrician with a cold virus or other virus, the doctor automatically wrote a prescription for antibiotics and this doesnt sound so bad until you consider that antibiotics are not at all effective against viruses. Colds are caused by a virus, earaches are often caused by viral infection and congestion. Granted, sometimes one can get what is called a secondary bacterial infection after having a virus like a cold. The virus causes congestion and bacteria can begin to over grow in he fluids leading to sinus infections and the like but the doctors have found out that automatically prescribing antibiotics to cover an infection that may, or may not occur does more harm than good! So be sure to get rid of old drugs. Ask your pharmacy if they have a drug take back program. Many of them do so they dont get into trash and get into our water supplies (or in the case of controlled substances, get onto the streets by people accessing your trash for drugs-it happens more than one would think!). Never flush old meds down the toilet! If your pharmacy doesnt have a See your Doctor/dermatologist for a new prescription

[RB in GA]

A little more on doxycycline. You will see it being prescribed more regularly, especially in hospitals.  The reason, largely unpublished, for this is the front line drugs such as vancomycin and gentomycin are failing to combat new infectious diseases as well as hoped. Resistance to those drugs is increasing alarmingly- and gent is the top of the line anti-infective. (That should scare you)  The general feeling is that in prescribing the older antibiotics, such as doxy, the disease strains may not recognize them and therefore they may help.
Just as an opinion, the reason vanc and gent have reduced potency these days is that they were severely over-prescribed in the hospitals due to how fast they worked for certain conditions.  I always thought it was ridiculous to prescribe those drugs when other, cheaper, albeit, slower acting drugs were available.  Everyone always wanted the quick fix and vanc, especially bacame a placebo in the ER. I predicted vanc/gent resistance a decade ago and was scoffed at. Sometimes it sucks to be right.

[Jackalope]

   The issues with doxycycline have been published for many years.  It's important to stay on top of medication expiration dates.  If you do stock a variety of antibiotics, it's important to understand when they should be used.  Using the wrong antibiotic to treat an infection can potentially kill the patient.  Your best bet is to have someone with professional knowledge in your group.  Having either a physician or PA advisor is almost a necessity.

[Felix]

Great info, thank you!.
And yes, I have a retired gynecologist living directly across the road from me.   But she and her husband had Biden bumper stickers so their actual prepping may come up short even if her skills and medical knowledge are valuable by themselves.

[pkveazey]

I seem to be lucky. I've read and agree with the posts on this subject. Guess what........ The State Delegate for my area is a Friend, a Ham, and a Pharmacist. He lives about 8 miles from me and I have talked to him on 2 meters. I programmed his Bao Feng HT and we tested out how far he could talk with just a Rubber Duck antenna. If I can't get in touch with any of my Dr. friends, I can consult with him.