Post by: Erick on July 30, 2014, 10:45:09 PM
I will try to keep it basic but still useful .....
(it's a copy/paste of something I wrote elsewhere)
First Lets get some references right so we can discuss this intelligently:
Outbreak: Lots more cases than normal
Epidemic: geographically widespread outbreak
Pandemic: very widely spread outbreak such as affecting a large part of the world.
A short synopsis on what Ebola is:
- Viral, specifically a Filovirus (very untypical form looks like a twine or twig , most viruses are more compact)
- Hemorrhagic fever causing (lots of internal and some external bleeding due to tissue and blood vessel degradation
- Contrary to Wikipedia not really all that infectious, certainly alot less than the flu or cold, extreme precautions are taken are due to lack of cure and lethality.
- Lethality rates up to 90% (this strain a lot less, more later)
- Incubation period 2-21 (!) days.
The Virus is called Ebola Virus (though many add a specifier for the strain) the disease state is called EVD, which means Ebola Virus Disease.
Original symptoms: Many are similar to Influenza and many other lesser diseases, : sore throat, fever, headaches, muscle pains.
Also later diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, which then progresses to the Hallmarks of the Hemorrhagic fevers , bleeding from eyes, ears, anus etc etc
But the very early stages it is not as obvious as to what it is, (unless you use advanced detection such as PCR to look for Virus titer in the bloodstream)
What happens normally in Ebola Outbreaks?
a) some people get sick and die in one village
b) same in a neighboring village
c) maybe a couple of medics
- Virus fizzles out as it kills quickly and everyone stays away from the obviously infected who are bleeding out of all orifices as they lie dying
- All infected humans are dead. no more transmission
- Outbreak over
What happened here?
we have a) and b) and c) but no fizzling.
the disease just keeps going and going.
Why whats different?
back in March I was in a discussion group with some Scientists and MD’s and it was already obvious to me that this outbreak was different.
Why? because it wasn’t stopping and was spreading over 3 countries.
As I asked the folks in the discussion group what they thought was making the difference this time? as the outbreak was surely distinct, both geographically and in its spread?
I was told,, no F. its the same as usual, bats are the reservoir, then primates got sick, then humans from primates yada yada blah blah, blah
But something WAS different.
It was obvious 1st we very rarely had outbreaks in this part of Africa and when we did they were short and small. the only outbreak that ever came close was in the heart of Ebola country Central Africa not west.
Fast Forward 3 months,
the Outbreak is still going strong and many are calling it an Epidemic.
And we find out something interesting:
- This strain IS different genetically from other Ebola strains
- It is less lethal (lethality 50-65%)
- The onset of hemorrhagic symptoms occurs much later in the disease progression
Those of you that have enjoyed my Seminars will understand now. why this strain has not stopped:
- Less lethality often means slower onset of symptoms so individuals can be infectious , even if only a little, while free or largely free of symptoms.
- Slow onset not just of symptoms in general but of symptoms specific to EVD will create windows in which people will not yet engage in social distancing with infected people with predictable results.
When human being go “Yuck he looks like a real sick dude, I;m gonna stay away” this disgust reaction is how nature creates social distancing mechanisms to protect people.
When the virus shows the nasty symptoms late than this protectio n mechanism is devalued.
I am convinced this is why this particular outbreak is ongoing.
Witness the Liberia official Sawyer (family resident in Minnesota), he was well enough to board a plane to Lagos Nigeria, to hold on to tickets and take a seat while being in late stage of EVD.
This is evidenced by the fact that he collapsped shortly after arrival.
yet when getting his ticket and boarding he did not display the typical Ebola symptoms or NO ONE would have let him on the plane!
This is why this is spreading.
Its not MORE lethal than “normal” Ebola it simply is gentler in its symptoms and actually less lethal in speed of death and in % lethality.
This is why it hasnt fizzled.
As some of you will recall I always harp on it that LESS lethal diseases can easier become an epidemic than more lethal ones right?
What does this mean for us?
Its easier for someone to travel to the US and not display symptoms and get sick here and spread it here.
However at this time I think it unlikely this strain of Ebola will turn into a pandemic or become a significant problem here, since Ebola is not very transmissible (need to exchange bodily fluids, though 1 airborne transmission from pigs to monkeys has been shown to occur the the lab!)
I covered what I felt was useful+needed but I encourage any and all questions so go ahead and ask.
Post by: Burt Gummer on July 31, 2014, 01:23:22 AM
And does it transmit through perspiration?
Post by: Erick on July 31, 2014, 07:25:28 AM
How long does Ebola survive outside of host on inanimate surfaces?
And does it transmit through perspiration?
-Like most viruses it only survives so long as the body fluid it leaves the host in, stays wet and protects it form air.
Air inactivates viruses (primarily by oxidizing those parts of its "coat" that it uses to attach to and then penetrate into cells) We're generally talking a maximum of minutes here.
- There is still come debate on that, but most say yes its very possible. Primary means is blood and to a lesser extent saliva though.
Post by: Well-Prepared Witch on July 31, 2014, 07:31:50 AM
Post by: JohnyMac on July 31, 2014, 09:00:06 AM
It's great to see that you made it over to the prepping side. :thumbsUp:
Awesome post on Ebola and timely as it is in the news.
Don't forget to post a short intro in the introduction board. ;D
Post by: brat on July 31, 2014, 06:41:50 PM
Post by: Erick on July 31, 2014, 08:32:46 PM
Feel free to ask questions if you want nuances explained.
The goal is ot give you a better understanding than what you get by looking it up via google :)
Cheers,
Post by: Nemo on July 31, 2014, 08:50:58 PM
Nemo :tinfoil:
Post by: Erick on July 31, 2014, 09:10:43 PM
- 20 + years as a WMD anti -terrorist CBRN responder (entry team), later Senior on site Scientific Analyst, for such responses....... Worked in a National Lab that verifies treaty compliance for Chemical weapons treaties w/ other countries,.. worked mobileCBRN/WMD response laboratories.... Taught other scientists mobile response laboratory operations. .... Served as Advisor to Senior State and Federal decision makers for emergency response planning for weapons of mass destruction events..... helped write environmental sampling protocols for known or suspected CBRN agents (which are very distinct form clinical protocols)..... Was involved in editing some of the manuals that the Army CBRN school uses to teach their CBRN experts.
Performed PCR, GCMS and Gamma spectroscopy among many many other techniques in support of the above.
That's about the maximum I want to disclose, so I can keep a little privacy so not everyone can just google me. :)
Post by: JohnyMac on July 31, 2014, 09:22:54 PM
My concern is that if Erick and Burt were to spend some time together, they probably would invent something dastardly, that I could market and make a mint off of. Hey that's a good thing :dancingGrenade: :cheers:
Post by: JohnyMac on July 31, 2014, 10:17:52 PM
Maybe this questions is a bit proletariat BUT how does one protect themselves and family from acquiring the EVD? Obviously avoiding contaminated areas where infection has been reported. However, as stated earlier the new strain of the disease is slower to act.
Post by: Erick on July 31, 2014, 10:23:44 PM
Erick,
Maybe this questions is a bit proletariat BUT how does one protect themselves and family from acquiring the EVD? Obviously avoiding contaminated areas where infection has been reported. However, as stated earlier the new strain of the disease is slower to act.
Social distancing is very powerful.
Also Ebola is like most viruses not very hardy.
Soap kills it (as does air), so engage in frequent handwashing or glove exchanges.
If you are in the middle on an outbreak for some reason, wear gloves , wear eyepro to protect your eyes from hand to eye transmission as humans on average touch their face 3000 times a day, wear a N95 surgical mask. to protect your mouth from same.
As long as you dont interact with a lot of infected like a medic would in a clinical setting, these precautions should be entirely sufficient.
This is about the level of protection that caregivers have in the african countries ( plus sometimes they wear tyvek suits).
At times they get sick anyway.. but they interact with VERY sick people a LOT so its not quite comparable to casual being out in public during an outbreak.
Post by: special-k on July 31, 2014, 10:27:50 PM
Show content
:lmfao:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nC7PEHwJTdk/Tj7hH3LNd9I/AAAAAAAABSA/mU_bleGW8kw/s1600/been_served.png)Post by: Burt Gummer on August 01, 2014, 01:43:50 AM
Post by: Burt Gummer on August 01, 2014, 01:58:34 AM
perhaps touching on subjects such as:
-Movement, mounted/dismounted
-decontamination
-interaction with unknown persons
-common misconceptions & fuckups.
Oh and a personal question, what should I use as a protective garment? because I doubt an issued A-charcoal padded CBRN suit is necessary.
Post by: Erick on August 01, 2014, 07:53:19 AM
But that will be a major write-up and likely seperate thread.
I am leaving tomorrow morning for a multi day combat rifle class, so such a major write-up will not happen this weekend. :)
I'll answer the last question now though:
- No a MOPP style suit is generally overkill for a prepper, as is a supplied breathing air of course.
- Goggles,
- Gloves
- N95 mask
- clothing change when coming back to your BOL (then wash)
... that will take care of 95% of bio threats for you while preserving most of your dexterity and situational awareness
Post by: rah45 on August 01, 2014, 08:51:40 AM
EIDs are the scariest threats I've read about thus far. This Ebola evolution is nuts.
Post by: graynomad on August 01, 2014, 09:46:24 AM
Can somebody confirm or refute this info? Because if it's true it doesn't matter if you hide for 10 years as soon as you re-enter what's left of society and get chummy with a survivor you are toast.
Post by: Erick on August 01, 2014, 03:40:16 PM
1)
Can somebody confirm or refute this info?
2)
Because if it's true it doesn't matter if you hide for 10 years as soon as you re-enter what's left of society and get chummy with a survivor you are toast.
1) True this has happened.
2) Not neccessarily. There is only a single case like that known at this time (to my knowledge) And this was 3 months after recovery when a male survivor infected his wife (she died :( ). To my knowledge no cases longer than 3 months post- recovery have been known. Based on available data I would consider it a non-threat after 3 months
Post by: Erick on August 01, 2014, 08:04:10 PM
Post by: graynomad on August 01, 2014, 08:38:01 PM
Post by: Erick on August 01, 2014, 08:46:23 PM
Thanks Eric, so stay out of it for the duration plus 3 months (maybe 6 just to be on the safe side).
YW
yes, More than 3 months after a person has survived should be safe to be very friendly with them :)
Post by: Nemo on August 01, 2014, 11:19:47 PM
Alright Nemo, if you insist... :whip:
- 20 + years as a WMD anti -terrorist CBRN responder (entry team), later Senior on site Scientific Analyst, for such responses....... Worked in a National Lab that verifies treaty compliance for Chemical weapons treaties w/ other countries,.. worked mobileCBRN/WMD response laboratories.... Taught other scientists mobile response laboratory operations. .... Served as Advisor to Senior State and Federal decision makers for emergency response planning for weapons of mass destruction events..... helped write environmental sampling protocols for known or suspected CBRN agents (which are very distinct form clinical protocols)..... Was involved in editing some of the manuals that the Army CBRN school uses to teach their CBRN experts.
Performed PCR, GCMS and Gamma spectroscopy among many many other techniques in support of the above.
That's about the maximum I want to disclose, so I can keep a little privacy so not everyone can just google me. :)
Didnt really insist. Just asked. Call me a jerk or out of order or whatever but I have seen a few posts and posters on the internet that looked terrific to know and rely on that turned out to be dead wrong. Seemed solid and reliable but did could not stand the test of time and analysis by properly credentialed people.
I learned long ago that just because you read it on the internet does not mean its true. Some people do post bad info. :sarcasm:
Info like this is great to know and IMHO, currently extra necessary to know. If I am going to rely on it, I want to know its solid info.
This guy sounds like the real deal. I will pay close attention to his info.
As to the serve-- seems to me I got a reasonable return.
Nemo
Post by: Erick on August 02, 2014, 04:29:31 AM
Post by: thatGuy on August 04, 2014, 08:39:08 AM
Welcome aboard Eric and thanks for the info!
Post by: Erick on August 06, 2014, 10:30:18 PM
Am willing to entertain question to cut thru media hype :)
Post by: Burt Gummer on August 07, 2014, 02:16:49 AM
Post by: brat on August 07, 2014, 05:52:32 AM
Post by: Erick on August 09, 2014, 06:08:34 PM
Post by: graynomad on August 09, 2014, 10:35:26 PM
Here's my plan. I live in the bush, when/if EVB gets anywhere near my nearest large town I lock my gate and leave it locked for X + 6 months, where X is the duration the pandemic takes to run it's course.
Note that this just a pandemic plan and it assumes we still have ROL.
Post by: crudos on August 09, 2014, 10:47:50 PM
So everyone now knows all they need on this subject???So how worried/not worried are you about this particular outbreak of Ebola and possible spreading to general first world population centers?
Post by: Erick on August 10, 2014, 07:50:54 AM
So everyone now knows all they need on this subject???So how worried/not worried are you about this particular outbreak of Ebola and possible spreading to general first world population centers?
In a balanced assessment the chances are quite slim:
Months ago before it got "big" I had an argument with others on this at i said this is a different strain and that something is different.
Well as described above the fact that its slower and less lethal makes it more dangerous (but we dont need to exaggerate the threat either.).
However dangerous enough to become an epidemic in the USA?
No I very much dont think so.
Not nearly transmissible enough.
Post by: Erick on August 10, 2014, 07:53:21 AM
Not really :)
Here's my plan. I live in the bush, when/if EVB gets anywhere near my nearest large town I lock my gate and leave it locked for X + 6 months, where X is the duration the pandemic takes to run it's course.
Note that this just a pandemic plan and it assumes we still have ROL.
No need to go to such extremes: :)
- its not infectious enough to become a real epidemic here, even in africa last I checked we were still under 1000 deaths
- And even if it were x+ 6mos is too much IMO :)
Post by: JohnyMac on August 10, 2014, 08:08:09 AM
Mmmmm oh yeah I was chatting with gadget99 and he mentioned to me that he is more worried about a Avian flu (Spanish flu) out break epidemic than Ebola.
There are so many N95 face mask manufactures, which do you Erick recommend for any outbreaks? I know Ebola is not transmittable by air.
Post by: Erick on August 10, 2014, 08:57:24 AM
To be quite frank I am more worries about small pox, TB and measles coming across our southern border than Ebola.
Mmmmm oh yeah I was chatting with gadget99 and he mentioned to me that he is more worried about a Avian flu (Spanish flu) out break epidemic than Ebola.
There are so many N95 face mask manufactures, which do you Erick recommend for any outbreaks? I know Ebola is not transmittable by air.
Ebola is generally considered not transmittable by air .
I like any N95 mask not just for lowering aerosol inhalation but for protecing yourself form touching your mouth with hands that touch alot of surfaces. same reason I like goggles.
the avg human being touches their face 3000 times a day.
everyone time is a contamination opportunity depending on what your hands touched
Post by: thatGuy on August 10, 2014, 12:09:02 PM
Post by: graynomad on August 10, 2014, 08:34:19 PM
So for someone like me who lives in the bush and goes into town infrequently I think there is little cause to worry...yet.
Post by: thatGuy on August 10, 2014, 10:19:25 PM
Post by: Nemo on August 10, 2014, 10:31:49 PM
Nemo
Post by: Burt Gummer on August 11, 2014, 01:07:36 AM
Post by: graynomad on August 11, 2014, 05:28:38 AM
Post by: Erick on August 11, 2014, 12:45:53 PM
What would you recommend as a "go-to" disinfectant solution for decontamination of items/clothing/yourself.
For the vast majority of pathogens including Ebola soap and water works great.
We have found that while the addition of bleach has a great extra punch in theory, it is usually unnecessary in the real world with the exception of anthracis spores.
Just about all viruses are killed quickly by soap (and many just by air).
Bacteria can be a little hardier (spores being the hardiest) but even there removal is the primary concern and for that soap and warm water works great (and still kills quite a few bacteria as well, by disrupting their cell walls, just not all of them).
Post by: Burt Gummer on August 11, 2014, 01:03:20 PM
Post by: brat on August 11, 2014, 05:42:59 PM
But seriously, Erick, since you've probably read a lot medical/technical reports, perhaps you can shed some light on this one (supposedly funded by DOD)? Before the report here's a short brief....
Quote
"What’s scary about Ebola. It’s a hemorrhagic fever virus that causes fatal internal bleeding in its later stages. So any remedy should be applied in its early stages before internal organs disintegrate.
Health officials also announce there’s no cure for Ebola. Antibiotics are for bacteria. Ebola is a viral blood infection that’s serum borne, not air borne, which makes it less contagious than a seasonal or any other flu. Only vaccines can supposedly prevent viral infections, and Big Pharma doesn’t have one yet. After all, it hasn’t been a popular disease here. So there’s no money in it.
There is an unpublicized in vitro (Petri dish) study proving colloidal silver can destroy Ebola virus strains. Silver is both anti-bacterial and anti-viral.
The study was funded by the DOD (Department of Defense) and carried out by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency in order to determine what defense was feasible for stopping a hemorrhagic fever virus, of which there is more than one, with Ebola having the highest mortality rate.
The ensuing report is titled: “Silver nano-particle neutralization of hemorrhagic fever viruses
Novel Nanotechnology-Based Antiviral Agents: Silver nano-particle neutralization of hemorrhagic
fever viruses.”
It was performed in 2008 and at first classified as confidential. But even after being declassified and available for public release, almost nothing was mentioned by the mainstream media about this study’s findings.
Apparently, trials on Ebola victims in West Africa with colloidal silver were not attempted. Maybe the DOD wanted to determine what it could use to protect future invading troops in West Africa, where Ebola is a fairly popular disease, or simply find an antidote against Ebola bio-warfare.
Big Pharma wouldn’t want to pay for human trials or let that information leak. Colloidal silver is not a synthetic drug. It can’t be patented. But it can be banned, as it has been in the EU. Big Pharma does not allow for any competition. That’s why I use the term “Medical Mafia” for the pharmaceutical industry.
So this trial study remains at in vitro, (in lab glass cultures) and not in vivo (live mammals). The study’s conclusions were dramatic, demonstrating that silver nanoparticles contained in colloidal silver completely stifled proliferation of Ebola viral replication within the blood or tissue cells of infected serum from African green monkey blood cultures that were infected with synthetically produced Ebola viruses.
This means exact dosages haven’t been determined for humans. But colloidal silver can be used liberally upon awareness of any viral symptoms. And it’s not nearly as expensive as anything the medical mafia comes up with. But it does wipe out the good bacteria needed for digestion and overall immunity. So an hour or more after each colloidal silver dose, a good Probiotic should be used to restore the collateral damage to intestinal Probiotic flora.
Ag is the symbol for silver; nano = one billionth; NP stands for nanoparticles; ug/ml = microgram per milliliter; Vero cells are lineages of cells from African green monkeys used in cell cultures; TCRV stands for T-cell receptor variable; eVLP mimics enveloped viruses for vaccine research.
Apparently the only caveat from the study offered by another colloidal silver expert is the silver needs to have already been in use or used quickly upon exposure to Ebola, in which case nebulizing colloidal silver may prove the fastest way to get it into your system. Small oral daily dosing as a preventative is another way to go."
See the report/study here....
http://www.thesilveredge.com/pdf/defense-threat-reduction-agency-silver-nanoparticles-neutralize-hemorrhagic-fever-viruses.pdf (http://www.thesilveredge.com/pdf/defense-threat-reduction-agency-silver-nanoparticles-neutralize-hemorrhagic-fever-viruses.pdf)
Is / Could this be legit ?
Post by: Erick on August 11, 2014, 06:37:34 PM
So the people that work at the CDC's BSL 1 through 4 clean themselves with Dawn? ???
Uhm no not Dawn ( tho that works quite well also)
Most prescribed protocols in the lab include include spray bottles of bleach INSIDE THE GLOVE BOX, then wipe,
then followed by alcohol as the drying agent, then wipe.
Those protocols have been developed to work in nearly all cases to include the toughest case such as spores INSIDE a Class III glovebox (which is what you use in BSL: 3 and 4)
BUT a specific application....in the vast majority of cases for a prepper thats neither practical nor necessary for you as a prepper going about your business outdoors or indoors.
Post by: Erick on August 11, 2014, 06:58:01 PM
:lmfao:..... Burt.
But seriously, Erick, since you've probably read a lot medical/technical reports, perhaps you can shed some light on this one (supposedly funded by DOD)? Before the report here's a short brief....Quote"What’s scary about Ebola. It’s a hemorrhagic fever virus that causes fatal internal bleeding in its later stages. So any remedy should be applied in its early stages before internal organs disintegrate.
Health officials also announce there’s no cure for Ebola. Antibiotics are for bacteria. Ebola is a viral blood infection that’s serum borne, not air borne, which makes it less contagious than a seasonal or any other flu. Only vaccines can supposedly prevent viral infections, and Big Pharma doesn’t have one yet. After all, it hasn’t been a popular disease here. So there’s no money in it.
There is an unpublicized in vitro (Petri dish) study proving colloidal silver can destroy Ebola virus strains. Silver is both anti-bacterial and anti-viral.
The study was funded by the DOD (Department of Defense) and carried out by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency in order to determine what defense was feasible for stopping a hemorrhagic fever virus, of which there is more than one, with Ebola having the highest mortality rate.
The ensuing report is titled: “Silver nano-particle neutralization of hemorrhagic fever viruses
Novel Nanotechnology-Based Antiviral Agents: Silver nano-particle neutralization of hemorrhagic
fever viruses.”
It was performed in 2008 and at first classified as confidential. But even after being declassified and available for public release, almost nothing was mentioned by the mainstream media about this study’s findings.
Apparently, trials on Ebola victims in West Africa with colloidal silver were not attempted. Maybe the DOD wanted to determine what it could use to protect future invading troops in West Africa, where Ebola is a fairly popular disease, or simply find an antidote against Ebola bio-warfare.
Big Pharma wouldn’t want to pay for human trials or let that information leak. Colloidal silver is not a synthetic drug. It can’t be patented. But it can be banned, as it has been in the EU. Big Pharma does not allow for any competition. That’s why I use the term “Medical Mafia” for the pharmaceutical industry.
So this trial study remains at in vitro, (in lab glass cultures) and not in vivo (live mammals). The study’s conclusions were dramatic, demonstrating that silver nanoparticles contained in colloidal silver completely stifled proliferation of Ebola viral replication within the blood or tissue cells of infected serum from African green monkey blood cultures that were infected with synthetically produced Ebola viruses.
This means exact dosages haven’t been determined for humans. But colloidal silver can be used liberally upon awareness of any viral symptoms. And it’s not nearly as expensive as anything the medical mafia comes up with. But it does wipe out the good bacteria needed for digestion and overall immunity. So an hour or more after each colloidal silver dose, a good Probiotic should be used to restore the collateral damage to intestinal Probiotic flora.
Ag is the symbol for silver; nano = one billionth; NP stands for nanoparticles; ug/ml = microgram per milliliter; Vero cells are lineages of cells from African green monkeys used in cell cultures; TCRV stands for T-cell receptor variable; eVLP mimics enveloped viruses for vaccine research.
Apparently the only caveat from the study offered by another colloidal silver expert is the silver needs to have already been in use or used quickly upon exposure to Ebola, in which case nebulizing colloidal silver may prove the fastest way to get it into your system. Small oral daily dosing as a preventative is another way to go."
See the report/study here....
[url]http://www.thesilveredge.com/pdf/defense-threat-reduction-agency-silver-nanoparticles-neutralize-hemorrhagic-fever-viruses.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.thesilveredge.com/pdf/defense-threat-reduction-agency-silver-nanoparticles-neutralize-hemorrhagic-fever-viruses.pdf[/url])
Is / Could this be legit ?
Brat:
thanks for the link that summarizes the work, its good you included it.
And DTRA, which is a DoD agency does indeed regularly fund such work but inidentally it does not usually mean that the work is performed at DTRA.
As for the content I have no beef with it but keep in mind that this was theoretical work at this point and no approved treatment protocols have been published based on Silver.
In laymens terms what it talks about is how small silver particles may poison/interrupt the virus life cycle inside a cell and in so doing they feel it may be useful in treatment.
There is still no known and/or trusted treatment of Ebola.
Experimental treatments used in the recent outbreak include a transfusion with survivors blood (which includes anitobodies agianst Ebola) and ZMapp a new as yet not tested on humans anti viral.
There is still not approved treatment of Ebola and the Physicians involved
here is a good Q&A by the CDC on current experimental treatments:
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/outbreaks/guinea/qa-experimental-treatments.html (http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/outbreaks/guinea/qa-experimental-treatments.html)
Post by: brat on August 11, 2014, 09:59:17 PM
Post by: special-k on August 12, 2014, 02:43:29 AM
I have been reading the info published & referenced at thesilveredge.com for many years. Through self-experimentation, I have found my homemade nano-silver based medicine to be thoroughly effective (in vivo) on ALL pathogens (bacterial, viral & fungal) against which I have tried it. Of course dosing takes some trial & error, and depends on the patient, pathogen, & particular "brew" at hand.
To sum up my understanding of the research:
In vitro, silver has either killed or sterilized every pathogen exposed to it.
Don't hold your breath for the "medical industrial complex" to ever properly study and/or approve silver for use to cure or prevent any disease.
Quote
...Colloidal silver is not a synthetic drug. It can’t be patented...
So you can wait for whatever over-priced, exotic, unavailable to you, patented, riddled with side effects, $nake-oil that "they" may or may not ever come up with... OR You can do your own due diligence.
If I recall, we have a saying around here:
Quote
"Freedom Through Self-Reliance"
The info is out there folks... but when it comes to silver, there will never be "FDA approved" treatments or even "peer-reviewed" studies using a substance from which "they" can not obscenely profit.
Post by: brat on August 12, 2014, 05:57:09 AM
Post by: JohnyMac on August 12, 2014, 10:25:07 AM
There are a posse of smart people on this forum and i suggest someone starting a topic on it in the health board. This would allow us all to contribute and then learn.
Who's up to starting it? :what:
Post by: thatGuy on August 12, 2014, 10:37:22 AM
Erick, please explain the term Glove Box. I assume you're not talking about leaving it in the truck.
Post by: special-k on August 12, 2014, 12:04:12 PM
(http://www.terrauniversal.com/gallery/oversized-images/Images/glovebox_plastic_series_100_700.jpg)
Post by: Erick on August 12, 2014, 08:13:17 PM
However it is not a Class III GB since it is mobile and does not appear equiped with overpressure system where the outgoing air is purified (to protect those around the exhaust) and even the incoming air is purified ( to protect the sample)
Those who do possess these features are called Class III which is what you use in BSL 3 and 4 labs. :)
BSL 4 Labs is where you will find Ebola work being done.
The pic below shows an example of Class 3 GB in a BSL 3 Lab.
The primary differences between BSL 3 and 4 are increased engineering controls in BSL 4 as well as the requirement that the operator wear protective gear such as Level A OSHA or the equivalent NFPA gear (I prefer suits based on NFPA guidelines over those based on OSHA regs but thats a different subject)
Post by: Erick on August 14, 2014, 10:13:07 PM
This is exactly how such things can spread.
No reason to panic, I am just illustrating it for educational purposes:
http://news.yahoo.com/nigeria-fears-ebola-spread-east-infected-nurse-232441108.html (http://news.yahoo.com/nigeria-fears-ebola-spread-east-infected-nurse-232441108.html)
Post by: JohnyMac on August 15, 2014, 08:09:45 AM
I remember a man one night, at a restaurant in West Virginia, explaining to a group of like minded folks; that the number one thing we should all be concerned with is some form of pandemic.
Your thoughts Erick?
Post by: Erick on August 15, 2014, 08:25:15 AM
- Ebola despite its continuing slow churn simply isn't infectious enough to become a true pandemic.
- But the perception that it, (or similar high profile diseases) ARE a pandemic might at some point cause enough economical damage to beocme a trigger of much more disruption than the disease itself could have ever caused.
Post by: Erick on August 19, 2014, 09:19:16 PM
Current developments raise my concern level a bit.
THIS is not normal:
http://news.yahoo.com/top-doctor-nigerias-fifth-ebola-death-223359458.html (http://news.yahoo.com/top-doctor-nigerias-fifth-ebola-death-223359458.html)
So many health workers infected so quickly by juts one dude.
Not normal for any strain of Ebola.
We might see an additional factor that favors this virus beyond simply the longer pre-symptom infectiousness I discussed in previous posts.
The virus is clearly distinct in the way it can perform its actual infection simply based on the epidemiology we learn.
If I were to speculate I might say one of its attachment glyco protiens may ahve mutates either for easier attachment in general or in some way that makes the ( still very difficult for the virus) airborne route a little less insurmountable from the virus' perspective.
I definitely expect this strain not to fade away and be around for a while.
Greater spread is near certain in my mind and we will eventually see some infections an ven deaths here in the US.
Will it be areal threat form simply medical?
Possibly but not likely. more likely people panic will be much more dangerous.
Post by: APX808 on August 19, 2014, 09:26:48 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/ebola-outbreak-escaped-liberian-quarantine-patients-found-as-death-toll-tops-1200-9678366.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/ebola-outbreak-escaped-liberian-quarantine-patients-found-as-death-toll-tops-1200-9678366.html)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/17/liberia-ebola-clinic_n_5685635.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/17/liberia-ebola-clinic_n_5685635.html)
Post by: Erick on August 19, 2014, 09:37:26 PM
this illustrates the social unrest component.
But I felt the other development was more relevant to our understanding of what is going on.
It will be interesting to see though if any of the escapees have infected anyone in the short time they were at large.
if they did we need to fundamentally re evaluate the nature of this new strain.
Post by: Nemo on August 19, 2014, 10:25:51 PM
Nemo
http://www.thetotalcollapse.com/3000-ebola-martyrs-warned-ready-to-strike-america/ (http://www.thetotalcollapse.com/3000-ebola-martyrs-warned-ready-to-strike-america/)
Quote
3,000 “Ebola Martyrs” Warned Ready To Strike America
August 16, 2014
A new report released in the Kremlin today by the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) is stating that the reason(s) for President Obama’s “mysterious and unscheduled” return to the White House this weekend is due the United States facing an “apocalyptic attack” from an estimated 3,000 “Ebola Martyrs” who are already in America and warned are “ready to strike”.
According to this report, SVR intelligence analysts became aware of the attack planned by these “Ebola Martyrs” against the US from their “monitoring” of a Islamic State (IS) [also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) and the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS)] terror cell operating out of the Embassy of Saudi Arabia located in Washington D.C.
In the past few weeks, this report continues, this IS terror cell has had “total freedom of movement” around Washington D.C. with no US intelligence service monitoring of them and have brazenly taken and posted photos of their: 1.) flag pinned to the White House fence and 2.) One of their operatives holding a letter against the backdrop of a US government building that reads:
“Soldiers of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria will pass from here soon,” followed by a Koran verse that reads, “and Allah is perfecting His Light even though the disbelievers hate (that).”
The underlying tweet posted with these photos further warned America: “We are in your state. We are in your cities. We are in your streets.”
Post by: Burt Gummer on August 20, 2014, 02:15:16 AM
Considering the logistics alone needed to move 3000! uneducated radical suicidal Islamists with a shelf life of a bit more then two weeks is mind boggling in and of it's self, even if granted green flags by all customs sources, port authorities and FAA controllers.
And since ISIS is our gov's creation anyway why and who would they be trying to fool with it? :tinfoil:
Post by: gadget99 on August 20, 2014, 02:45:20 AM
I am a firm believer that history illustrates that every once in a while, a set of unexpected events combine into a perfect storm. Caught by surprise the human race takes a BIG hit.
I suspect that this thing could mess up a parts of the African Continent pretty well.
What does concern me though, is that if the outbreak continues. The virus will be subject to mutation. I understand that in its current form the transmissibility is low. Up until now the outbreaks have been fast burning. Thus we had not seen generational mutation.
This outbreak is as has been pointed out, different.
Please tell me that I am wrong in my supposition.
Is it not true that the longer the outbreak continues, the grater the chance the virus will mutate? If so, is it not possible that there is a chance it may become airborne?
Just my thoughts....
Sent from my B1-710 using Tapatalk
Post by: Twitch on August 20, 2014, 01:40:10 PM
Post by: Erick on August 20, 2014, 05:08:11 PM
Not practical on different levels.
In other breaking news I learned earlier today from a MedTech who has been to West Africa that the Doctors in Nigeria FAILED to take proper precautions the first day.
That makes their infection with Ebola much less ominous for the rest of us.
Post by: Erick on August 20, 2014, 05:18:47 PM
Is it not true that the longer the outbreak continues, the grater the chance the virus will mutate? If so, is it not possible that there is a chance it may become airborne?
yes this is true.
However no matter how extreme the mutation it will still remain a filovirus with all the limitations to its survival in air that entails
Post by: gadget99 on August 20, 2014, 05:23:48 PM
Sent from my B1-710 using Tapatalk
Post by: Erick on August 20, 2014, 10:49:28 PM
Post by: thatGuy on August 21, 2014, 11:38:29 AM
Post by: Erick on August 21, 2014, 04:21:11 PM
I am loathe to do it since i hate a lot of typing :P
When looking at adisease like this it's all about balance.
Does even this strain of Ebola have the ability to destroy our society from a purely medical standpoint?
Certainly not, not even with what appaers to be a strain thats a bit enhanced in its ability to infect BUT like I said elsewhere the reaction of human beings and the mass/mob psychology of it needs just the PERCEPTION of areal threat for panic which may result in riots, which may result in supply shortages, which will result in more panic, which will result in more riots etc etc until finally the grid is down.
That would kill many many multiples of what this virus ever would BUT something like that could be triggered by it in a worse case scenario
Post by: gadget99 on August 23, 2014, 01:18:07 PM
I do have a bit of a prediction though.
As I have said before, I have learned that every now and then the human race gets kicked in the balls.
The Spanish Flu was a good example.
I firmly believe that a series of "where did that come from" type events will create what we preppers are gearing up for.
The hitch is the "when will it happen" in the equation.
I can easily see the Ebola outbreak messing up a good part of the African Continent. Add to that another BIG outbreak of war in the middle East. The thing in the Ukraine blowing up. Add to that some expansionism by China. A little dose of Korea maybe. Then the reality that the global economy is still a bit shaky.
Oh dear I could go on and on......
I am not stressing over this really.
Why? Because mine and my own are prepped.
I was getting bored anyway, Bring on the chaos....... LOL
Post by: Erick on August 28, 2014, 09:06:24 PM
NO reason to panic yet.
Illl let you guys know when its time to panic ;)
http://news.yahoo.com/says-ebola-outbreak-could-strike-20-000-people-102050086.html (http://news.yahoo.com/says-ebola-outbreak-could-strike-20-000-people-102050086.html)
Post by: TrailingSpouse on August 29, 2014, 10:31:43 AM
Ebola martyrs!!!! *eek*
I'm in Kinshasa - 1300 k from the outbreak in Congo - Equateur. Not too worried. Its more likely Kinshasa will get it via West Africa as there's no roads or internal transport to speak of.
Seems easy enough to take precautions - we are now all touching elbows rather than shaking hands :) and we've stopped kissing corpses.
Congo has had six previous outbreaks and now has some expertise. Also they're getting loads of assistance from WHO, MSF and CDC etc.
BUT - as others have mentioned, there could be issues resulting from panic, economic collapse etc. There's a rumour around in the local population that there are stocks of ZMAPP at the American Embassy, and even that all white Diplomats and NGO workers have already been issued with it. Which would of course make us a target.
ALSO - if other countries close their airports to us and we have a medivac situation (e.g. cerebral malaria) we are screwed as treatment facilities are poor here and the last place I would want to be in an Ebola outbreak is a Congolese hospital!
Post by: thedigininja on August 29, 2014, 08:12:04 PM
Post by: v0dka on September 23, 2014, 06:54:45 AM
ER nurses were asking questions like "have you been to another country or been around someone who has recently?."
They are going so far as to put stickers on patient's and family to show that they have not been at risk.
The smaller hospitals haven't started screening yet to my knowledge.
Post by: Erick on September 23, 2014, 08:11:18 AM
Post by: KillJoy on September 23, 2014, 01:58:56 PM
Healthcare professionals keeping ebola in their differential diagnosis for individuals displaying similar signs and symptoms is just one of the reasons why first world medicine CAN contain this thing. It's a good thing we're keeping it on our radar. Not so much a cause for panic. A handful of localized incidents could be successfully contained. What makes me nervous is wide-spread infection leading to stretching of resources. That's when it starts to come unhinged.
Seeing the PAPR's hanging in their bags on the wall does make me pause every shift and think of the possibility's. I thought accidental needle-sticks were a nerve racking thought before all this...now it's pure pucker factor.
Post by: Burt Gummer on September 23, 2014, 02:01:43 PM
Post by: Erick on September 23, 2014, 06:15:58 PM
Hey Erick what do you know about the domestic (U.S.) implementation of a regional quarantine?
Quarantining an entire region is not in the planning so far all I've seen is cities.
Post by: Nemo on September 24, 2014, 12:08:31 AM
Nemo
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/09/23/who-forecasts-more-than-20000-ebola-cases-by-november-2 (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/09/23/who-forecasts-more-than-20000-ebola-cases-by-november-2)
Quote
CDC report predicts as many as 1.4 million cases of Ebola by January
Published September 23, 2014, FoxNews.com
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released a report Tuesday predicting as many as 550,000 to 1.4 million cases of the Ebola virus in Liberia and Sierra Leone alone, by the end of January.
The CDC calculations are based, in part, on assumptions that cases have been dramatically underreported. Other projections haven't made the same kind of attempt to quantify illnesses that may have been missed in official counts.
CDC scientists conclude there may be as many as 21,000 reported and unreported cases in just those two countries as soon as the end of this month.
“The model shows — and I don’t think this has been shown by other modeling tools out there — that a surge now can break the back of the epidemic. It also shows that there are severe costs of delay," CDC Director Dr. Thomas Frieden said in a press conference Tuesday.
The agency's numbers seem "somewhat pessimistic" and do not account for infection control efforts already underway, said Dr. Richard Wenzel, a Virginia Commonwealth University scientist who formerly led the International Society for Infectious Diseases.
Separately, the World Health Organization (WHO) warned in a new report that the number of people infected with the Ebola virus could reach 20,000 by the beginning of November if efforts to contain the outbreak are not accelerated.
The outbreak has killed around 2,800 people in five West African countries this year. An estimated 5,800 people have been infected with the virus, which has no known cure. The WHO has repeatedly said that the actual number of infections and deaths is almost certainly higher than the official figures.
The report, published six months after the first cases were reported, is far more pessimistic than an earlier survey published last month, in which the WHO suggested that the number of cases could reach 20,000 by the middle of next year. According to The New York Times, the report also raises the possibility that the outbreak will cause Ebola to become endemic in West Africa.
The WHO said Monday that the Ebola outbreak was "pretty much contained" in Nigeria and Senegal. However, the death rate among infected is currently at around 70 percent in the other three countries touched by the infection: Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea. Of those three, Liberia has reported the most Ebola cases, at just over 3,000.
The epidemic has overwhelmed the healthcare systems of all three countries, which rank among the world's poorest. There aren't enough hospital beds, health workers or even soap and water.
Last week, the U.S. announced it would build more than a dozen medical centers in Liberia and send 3,000 troops to help. Britain and France have also pledged to build treatment centers in Sierra Leone and Guinea and the World Bank and UNICEF have sent more than $1 million worth of supplies to the region.
"We're beginning to see some signs in the response that gives us hope this increase in cases won't happen," Christopher Dye, WHO's director of strategy and study co-author, told the Associated Press. "This is a bit like weather forecasting. We can do it a few days in advance, but looking a few weeks or months ahead is very difficult."
Other outside experts questioned the WHO's projections and said Ebola's spread would ultimately be slowed not only by containment measures but by changes in people's behavior.
"It's a big assumption that nothing will change in the current outbreak response," said Dr. Armand Sprecher, an infectious diseases specialist at Doctors Without Borders.
"Ebola outbreaks usually end when people stop touching the sick," he said. "The outbreak is not going to end tomorrow but there are things we can do to reduce the case count."
Local health officials have launched campaigns to educate people about the symptoms of Ebola and not to touch the sick or the dead. Previous Ebola outbreaks have been in other areas of Africa; this is the first to hit West Africa.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Post by: APX808 on September 26, 2014, 02:55:42 PM
Has been reported that two women who died of ebola resurrected in their funerals.
http://allafrica.com/stories/201409240829.html (http://allafrica.com/stories/201409240829.html)
Post by: thedigininja on September 26, 2014, 04:25:36 PM
Post by: KillJoy on September 30, 2014, 09:35:26 PM
Well...it's here folks. Let's hope we can contain and execute proper contact tracing.
Post by: Burt Gummer on October 01, 2014, 01:35:50 AM
source
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/01/health/airline-passenger-with-ebola-is-under-treatment-in-dallas.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/01/health/airline-passenger-with-ebola-is-under-treatment-in-dallas.html?_r=0)
Post by: Erick on October 01, 2014, 09:15:09 AM
With ytravel the way it is it was only a matter of time until it got here
Post by: Burt Gummer on October 01, 2014, 12:15:49 PM
(and usually w/o symptoms means not infectious)Can you explain to me why that is?
Post by: Burt Gummer on October 01, 2014, 12:27:11 PM
Post by: gadget99 on October 01, 2014, 05:23:26 PM
Not saying it is time to panic. Yet I would always advise that much of the time the human race gets sucker punched by things that the experts predicted won't happen.
I will point to hurricane Katrina as an example. I remember a Discovery documentary years before the event, stating the risks of a cat 5 hurricane to New Orleans. Yet nobody listened and you know what happened.
Keep prepping my friends. Better to be prepped not living in fear due to being ready. Than caught like a sheep in the slaughter.
Sent from my B1-710 using Tapatalk
Post by: Erick on October 01, 2014, 07:52:12 PM
Also do you have any experience with the use of Tyveck in dealing with biologicals?
yes.
Actually . IMO Tyvek is a bit overkill for Bio. (UNLESS you are in repeated close contact with a very sick Ebola victim)
Used it in Chem incidents in combination with Level C mask before.
Tyvek is easy to use.. if your concerns is so high that you want to use tyvek definitely use gloves and tape them to the suit sleeves after putting them on and consider a real mask as well. (but in a pinch P95 and goggles work.)
Post by: Erick on October 01, 2014, 08:25:43 PM
(and usually w/o symptoms means not infectious)Can you explain to me why that is?
symptoms are generally what sheds virus, runny nose. vomiting, blood out pof eyes, ears anus etc..
Would take a lot of typing to explain why but the thing that does the infecting comes out when symptoms exist.
Post by: Burt Gummer on October 02, 2014, 01:54:50 AM
Things in africa are slow moving this limits the range of a potential infected person before he displays symptoms is discovered or seeks help. here in the US 21 days is an eternity.
So that got me thinking of how the disease behave? Is it highly localized such as rabies or chicken pox? That has to slowly spread it's self through out the body?
Or does it disseminate through out and multiply? Then once the host has reached a certain level of infection does the body react to the pathogen and displays symptoms?
Post by: special-k on October 02, 2014, 03:38:44 AM
With winter coming, does anyone know where to find a life expectancy/temperature range chart for the Ebola virus? I'm talking the virus itself in droplet form... not patients.
Post by: Erick on October 02, 2014, 06:00:10 PM
1)Is it highly localized such as rabies or chicken pox?
2) Or does it disseminate through out and multiply?
3) Then once the host has reached a certain level of infection does the body react to the pathogen and displays symptoms?
1) No
2) Yes
3) Yes
Post by: Erick on October 02, 2014, 06:02:01 PM
, does anyone know where to find a life expectancy/temperature range chart for the Ebola virus? I'm talking the virus itself in droplet form... not patients.
In those very rare instances where the virus is outside a host in a droplet that is exposed to air the life expectancy of the virus can usually be measured in minutes. The Oxygen in air denatures its coat and glycoproteins which are designed for an aqueous environment not a dry one.
HOWEVER EXCEPTIONS Exist.
Sme cases it has been active for days especially if high humidity was present.
But this is not thought to be common infection route.
Direct contact with blood or vomitus is.
Post by: Erick on October 02, 2014, 09:17:50 PM
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2014/10/02/important-ebola-note/ (http://www.barnhardt.biz/2014/10/02/important-ebola-note/)
Post by: Burt Gummer on October 03, 2014, 02:11:50 AM
Post by: Erick on October 03, 2014, 09:28:23 PM
That was a great read, and thank you again for shedding light on our questions.
My pleasure.
Its all about striking a balance between fear mongering and downplaying .
Post by: JohnyMac on October 04, 2014, 09:16:11 AM
Quote
"DEATH THREAT: To:annbarnhardt
I'm going to kill you when I find you. Don't think I won't, I know where you and your parents live and I'll need is one phone-call to kill ya'll.
ANN'S RESPONSE:
Re: Watch your back.
Hello mufcadnan123!
You don't need to "find" me. My address is 9175 Kornbrust Circle, Lone Tree, CO 80124....
To read the rest of her response go here (http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/ann-barnhardt.htm#.VC_v2BZrglI).
In response to Ann's piece: My PC sensitivities do not allow me to agree with her IQ comments however, I do believe that the Dallas Ebola Victim (AKA AS DEV) jumped on a plane to visit relatives in the great state of Texas as a precaution. A precaution to the possibility of acquiring the Big "E" as he handled his infected sister who died of E.
Wouldn't you rather be in the old USofA rather than Liberia if you had the Big E?
Post by: Erick on October 04, 2014, 09:28:08 AM
- There is a lot of Angst out there based on laymen's reading the published MSDS and other data sheets on Ebola.
Because those publication use a rule-it-out standard for decontamination etc.
That's an extremely high standard and Laymen will not always accurately interpret the black letter data given there for a nuanced balanced risk assessment.
For us preppers it's about managing risk not getting the table so clean it can be govt triple X certified.
Post by: DMCakhunter on October 04, 2014, 08:48:41 PM
I have a question for you because I have not seen this addressed anywhere.
Since west nile virus is transmitted by mosquitos, can ebola be passed by mosquito?
Thank you.
Post by: Erick on October 04, 2014, 10:25:31 PM
Erick,
I have a question for you because I have not seen this addressed anywhere.
Since west nile virus is transmitted by mosquitos, can ebola be passed by mosquito?
Thank you.
There is no indication that this has ever occurred.
I suspect the fact that is Ebola is an enveloped virus may have something to do with that.
The envelope helps make a Virus more adaptable to different hosts and more infectious but also more labile against environmental challenges such as the inside of a mosquito gut.
Post by: DMCakhunter on October 05, 2014, 06:42:11 AM
Post by: brat on October 05, 2014, 07:59:13 AM
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/airborne_transmission_of_ebola.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/airborne_transmission_of_ebola.html)
Post by: Erick on October 05, 2014, 08:34:12 AM
An article by a doctor for those interested...... Then make up your own mind and proceed as you feel comfortable.
Like I said before, every pathogen (just about) can and will be "airborne" at some point.
But that is not quite what people are imagining it to be.
Unlike some chemical there is not now, nor will there ever be, a danger where you walk someplace outdoors minding your business and you will inhale the pathogen.
Indoor is much more dangerous but even then you need to be in some kind of proximity to a aerosol producing procedure or person, such as ultracentrifugation of a sample OR a patient who is coughing (which they do not always do).
aerosol transmission is a rare event and the majority of aerosol transmission can be prevented by the 95 paper masks and goggles, simple shooting goggle offer some protection but lab type goggles with side protection are best.
If you suspect you are in proximity to aerosolization and you have a proper protective mask like a M40 or M17 or foreign versions thereof,
Go ahead wear then.
But exercise care.
Dont wear them outdoors (where there is no need) and get hit by a car or a robber due to diminished awareness.
Post by: gadget99 on October 06, 2014, 01:52:17 PM
Could you provide a bit of input?
The report on Sky News and the BBC that a nurse that was treating a priest who died in Madrid of Ebola has tested positive for Ebola worries me.
What is not adding up for this old soldier, is why there are so many health care workers coming down with Ebola. Yes I get the remote location instances and the instances where protocols were not properly followed.
Though I am getting the impression that there may be a bit more to the story.
An inordinate amount of people that are taking educated precautions are becoming infected.
The lazy part of me wants to paint this as human error, yet the old soldier in me is suspicious of the frequency.
Not really sure what I think of this.
I admit I am a bit more worried now.
Post by: Erick on October 06, 2014, 08:19:35 PM
Erik,
Could you provide a bit of input?
The report on Sky News and the BBC that a nurse that was treating a priest who died in Madrid of Ebola has tested positive for Ebola worries me.
What is not adding up for this old soldier, is why there are so many health care workers coming down with Ebola. Yes I get the remote location instances and the instances where protocols were not properly followed.
Though I am getting the impression that there may be a bit more to the story.
An inordinate amount of people that are taking educated precautions are becoming infected.
I admit this report is worrisome.
But last time my spider sense was tingling when I heard that five (!) healthcare workers had been infected by just one dude getting treated for 3 days before he died in Nigeria got infected.
That was crazy and made me think we are really missing something big and I was ready to call my buddies and start executing a slow + deliberate withdrawal to the BOL plan.
BUT then a guy who was on the ground in West Africa told me that the nigerians did not realize it was ebola and the entire first day they treated him (that means be in close proximity to him and his fluids) w/o any special precautions.
Which explains the infections rather well.
So w/o knowing anything more about this case than the BBC writes, I will reserve judgement and based on previous experience not be worried yet until more details become available.
Post by: special-k on October 07, 2014, 01:52:08 AM
Quote
The purpose of this report is to emphasize the potential utility for the use of melatonin in the treatment of individuals who are infected with the Ebola virus. The pathological changes associated with an Ebola infection include, most notably, endothelial disruption, dissiminated intravascular coagulation and multiple organ hemorrhage. Melatonin has been shown to target these alterations. Numerous similarities between Ebola virus infection and septic shock have recognized for more than a decade. Moreover, melatonin has been successfully employed for the treatment of sepsis in many experimental and clinical studies. Based on these factors, since the number of treatments currently available is limited and the useable products are not abundant, the use of melatonin for the treatment of Ebola virus infection is encouraged. Additionally, melatonin has a high safety profile, is readily-available and can be orally-self administered; thus, the use of melatonin is compatible with the large scale of this serious outbreak.
BTW, melatonin is OTC.
Post by: Erick on October 07, 2014, 10:04:32 PM
Here's a recent PubMed abstract: Ebola virus disease: Potential use of melatonin as a treatment ([url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25262626?report=abstract[/url]).QuoteThe purpose of this report is to emphasize the potential utility for the use of melatonin in the treatment of individuals who are infected with the Ebola virus. The pathological changes associated with an Ebola infection include, most notably, endothelial disruption, dissiminated intravascular coagulation and multiple organ hemorrhage. Melatonin has been shown to target these alterations. Numerous similarities between Ebola virus infection and septic shock have recognized for more than a decade. Moreover, melatonin has been successfully employed for the treatment of sepsis in many experimental and clinical studies. Based on these factors, since the number of treatments currently available is limited and the useable products are not abundant, the use of melatonin for the treatment of Ebola virus infection is encouraged. Additionally, melatonin has a high safety profile, is readily-available and can be orally-self administered; thus, the use of melatonin is compatible with the large scale of this serious outbreak.
BTW, melatonin is OTC.
Well Melatonin is cheap and relatively harmless.
So if you are sick there is probably no downside in taking it... its just that this is new/untested and any upside for Ebola will be speculative.
Post by: Nemo on October 08, 2014, 12:30:00 AM
Nemo
Ebola Vaccine Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfwfMFBV34g#ws)
Post by: gadget99 on October 08, 2014, 02:57:13 AM
Erik,
Could you provide a bit of input?
The report on Sky News and the BBC that a nurse that was treating a priest who died in Madrid of Ebola has tested positive for Ebola worries me.
What is not adding up for this old soldier, is why there are so many health care workers coming down with Ebola. Yes I get the remote location instances and the instances where protocols were not properly followed.
Though I am getting the impression that there may be a bit more to the story.
An inordinate amount of people that are taking educated precautions are becoming infected.
I admit this report is worrisome.
But last time my spider sense was tingling when I heard that five (!) healthcare workers had been infected by just one dude getting treated for 3 days before he died in Nigeria got infected.
That was crazy and made me think we are really missing something big and I was ready to call my buddies and start executing a slow + deliberate withdrawal to the BOL plan.
BUT then a guy who was on the ground in West Africa told me that the nigerians did not realize it was ebola and the entire first day they treated him (that means be in close proximity to him and his fluids) w/o any special precautions.
Which explains the infections rather well.
So w/o knowing anything more about this case than the BBC writes, I will reserve judgement and based on previous experience not be worried yet until more details become available.
Thank you for the input Erik.
Post by: Burt Gummer on October 08, 2014, 12:37:04 PM
Here's a recent PubMed abstract: Ebola virus disease: Potential use of melatonin as a treatment ([url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25262626?report=abstract[/url]).QuoteThe purpose of this report is to emphasize the potential utility for the use of melatonin in the treatment of individuals who are infected with the Ebola virus. The pathological changes associated with an Ebola infection include, most notably, endothelial disruption, dissiminated intravascular coagulation and multiple organ hemorrhage. Melatonin has been shown to target these alterations. Numerous similarities between Ebola virus infection and septic shock have recognized for more than a decade. Moreover, melatonin has been successfully employed for the treatment of sepsis in many experimental and clinical studies. Based on these factors, since the number of treatments currently available is limited and the useable products are not abundant, the use of melatonin for the treatment of Ebola virus infection is encouraged. Additionally, melatonin has a high safety profile, is readily-available and can be orally-self administered; thus, the use of melatonin is compatible with the large scale of this serious outbreak.
BTW, melatonin is OTC.
Well Melatonin is cheap and relatively harmless.
So if you are sick there is probably no downside in taking it... its just that this is new/untested and any upside for Ebola will be speculative.
And this is the entire plot of the movie "Contagion"... :lmfao: Oooh we live in a simple world don't we.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_15 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_15)
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTY3MDk5MDc3OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzAyNTg0Ng@@._V1_SY317_CR0,0,214,317_AL_.jpg)
Post by: Erick on October 08, 2014, 03:47:14 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhp8n5zh232opgi/african-healthcare-setting-vhf.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhp8n5zh232opgi/african-healthcare-setting-vhf.pdf?dl=0)
Post by: thedigininja on October 09, 2014, 10:13:08 AM
Post by: Well-Prepared Witch on October 09, 2014, 11:20:02 AM
Quote
And this is the entire plot of the movie "Contagion"... :lmfao: Oooh we live in a simple world don't we.
[url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_15[/url] ([url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_15[/url])
OMG, Burt, that was EXACTLY what I was thinking when I saw the post about melatonin.
Post by: Burt Gummer on October 10, 2014, 01:58:06 PM
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ebola-spread-shows-flaws-in-protective-gear-and-procedures/ (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ebola-spread-shows-flaws-in-protective-gear-and-procedures/)
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The Cleaning Guys workers who operated in the apartment wore full-face respirators and Level B Saranac suits, which are completely enclosed to protect against particulates and liquids, as per Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) regulations. These workers typically wear this type of gear when cleaning biohazardous materials and crime scenes, both of which may require protection from blood-borne pathogens, according to Smith. He would not go into detail about the process used to clean the apartment and surrounding area but did say that all of the items in the apartment were removed and placed in containment, with transportation and disposal to be handled by a different company.
Smith also points out that his cleanup workers wore three layers of gloves to protect themselves while working but also to safely undress after the work was done. “That way, you can undress in layers, keeping your hands protected as you remove layers of possibly contaminated clothing,” he says.
Post by: JohnyMac on October 10, 2014, 09:51:21 PM
As a side note: Erick will be away from the forum for a couple of days. When he can he will read and contribute to the topic however it will not be immediate.
Post by: thedigininja on October 14, 2014, 12:51:56 PM
Post by: Nemo on October 14, 2014, 03:21:07 PM
I know its quite possible they are not really the general prepper type and could easily be turned off by this place. But the whole status of the world might let you get some new friends/preppers/back up/ and the like where you are. Just a thought.
Nemo
Post by: special-k on October 14, 2014, 07:03:56 PM
Skip forward to about 4:40.
A TASTE OF REMOVING AN EBOLA DEAD BODY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiwipDyfz_I#ws)
Post by: Nemo on October 14, 2014, 09:05:14 PM
I am relatively sure that did not happen in the Virginia I lived in (the USA Virginia) for 30 years a bit back. That gives me a bit of doubt on all of it. The vegetation is not generally Virginian as well as the language, spoken and body, and most other little things shown. Those support it as the Central Africa area.
Details? Corrections? Explanations? Any credibility enhancement?
At 7:40 the ticker comes on and praises those workers and says Liberia. That fits but the Virginia error? I am still unconvinced.
The Virginia ticker repeats at 12:04 to 12:17.
The Liberian ticker repeats at 12:42.
Nemo
Post by: special-k on October 14, 2014, 09:15:15 PM
Liberia was colonized by former slaves from America. They named some of their areas (village, city, town, etc.) with names that were familiar to them.
Post by: Nemo on October 14, 2014, 09:26:27 PM
Nemo :tinfoil:
Post by: Grudgie on October 15, 2014, 11:24:02 AM
Post by: special-k on October 15, 2014, 11:31:03 AM
Will an N95 mask be enough to stop from breathing Ebola?An N95 will not stop an airborne virus. :gasMask:
Post by: thedigininja on October 15, 2014, 11:49:43 AM
Post by: special-k on October 15, 2014, 12:47:25 PM
Yesterday I brewed 6 quarts of nano-silver (internal use) to add to my stocks. So far today I've brewed 2 gallons of crude colloidal silver (external use antiseptic/hand sanitizer/surface disinfectant.) I still have more empty jars.
Post by: brat on October 15, 2014, 02:53:46 PM
Post by: JohnyMac on October 15, 2014, 04:20:10 PM
Post by: thedigininja on October 15, 2014, 05:53:22 PM
Post by: special-k on October 15, 2014, 06:21:49 PM
SK, so you have a link you can share on how to do this?
I think you've piqued everybody's interest there SK.
I started a new topic: Colloidal Silver (http://unchainedpreppers.com/forum/physical-fitness-challange/colloidal-silver/msg57127/#msg57127)
Post by: thedigininja on October 15, 2014, 07:29:32 PM
Post by: thatGuy on October 15, 2014, 08:07:46 PM
Post by: Twitch on October 16, 2014, 01:34:31 PM
Post by: special-k on November 04, 2014, 07:50:03 PM
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Selenium Deficiency Could Potentially Play an Important Role in Ebola Lethality
Here's yet another factor that could play an important role in the Ebola outbreak: selenium deficiency. The documented relationship between low selenium status and impaired immunity in relation to Ebola goes back to 1995. Intriguing evidence suggests that the lethal hemorrhaging associated with the Ebola virus may be influenced by a lack of selenium...
According to Dr. Gary Gordan, adults need at least 400 micrograms (mcg) of selenium per day, but if the virus is making seleno-proteins—which Ebola is thought to do—you may need several times that amount. The documentation I'm referring to was published in the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine in 1995,15 and reads in part:
"The expression of this hypothetical protein could impose an unprecedented selenium demand upon the host, potentially leading to severe lipid peroxidation and cell membrane destruction. This could also contribute to the characteristic hemorrhaging caused by intravascular blood clotting, due to the thrombotic effect of selenium (Se) deficiency. The possibility that this gene might contribute to the extreme pathogenicity of the Zaire strain of Ebola virus by this mechanism is also consistent with the observation that this potential selenoprotein gene is not present in the Ebola Reston strain, which was not pathogenic in humans...
It is very well documented that selenium plays a significant role in the regulation of blood clotting via its effects on the thromboxane/prostacyclin ratio. Selenium has an anti-clotting effect, whereas selenium deficiency has a pro-clotting or thrombotic effect. Selenium deficiency has been associated with thrombosis and even hemorrhaging, which has been documented in a number of animals with severe selenium deficiency... but is almost never seen in humans, probably because such an extreme selenium deficiency is rarely attained due to the diversity of human diets.
Thus, the possibility that a rapid depletion of selenium due to the formation of viral selenoproteins could be a factor contributing to the severity of the hemorrhagic symptoms is mechanistically very feasible. Our analysis suggests that severe Ebola infections could produce an artificial and extreme Se depletion, resulting in extensive cellular damage due to lipid peroxidation, combined with enhanced thrombosis.
This could also contribute to the associated immune deficiency that has been observed in Ebola infections.
To our knowledge, indicators of Se status and lipid peroxidation have never been examined in Ebola patients. However, selenium has apparently been used with great success by the Chinese in the palliative treatment of an infectious hemorrhagic fever. Although this did not involve Ebola virus, there are a number of different hemorrhagic fever viruses, and they may share common mechanisms. This example provides yet another reason to expect that pharmacological doses of selenium may also have some benefit in Ebola infections."
Post by: Erick on November 25, 2014, 10:52:54 PM
Post by: rah45 on November 26, 2014, 08:34:30 AM