War with Iran- John Mosby of Nous Defions Gets Political

[EJR914]

All of that having been said, our rapidly impending, and apparently unavoidable invasion of Iran, and the subsequent counter-insurgency we are going to embroiled in, just like the one we just left in Iraq, is stupid. I genuinely believe it is intended not to secure peace in the Middle East (good luck with that fucking pipe dream!), but to provide ammunition to further tighten the chokehold of the police-state here in the United States, that we are currently beginning to suffer under.



Let's look at historical fact. If the Israelis genuinely believe that Iran poses a clear and present danger to the security of the Jewish state, they are more than capable of pre-emptively ending that threat, with no direct help from the United States government. They've done it before, on more than once occasion.

The current claim is that Iran is less than one year away from the completion of a functional nuclear weapon. That's been the claim for well over half a decade! I put that into the same category as using Hussein's WMDs as an excuse to legitimize the invasion of Iraq (i.e. it's a load of horse-shit).

There is much much more at the link:  http://mountainguerrilla.blogspot.com/2012/02/apologiaand-rant.html

I agreed with everything he said.

[sledge]

All of that having been said, our rapidly impending, and apparently unavoidable invasion of Iran,

The current claim is that Iran is less than one year away from the completion of a functional nuclear weapon. That's been the claim for well over half a decade!

Those two parts I don' think are accurate.  We won't invade Iran.  We'll bomb the shit out of them.  I doubt we'll invade Syria either.  But we'll probably supply the rebels if we haven't already.  Taking Iran out of the picture is the key to stopping the civil war in Syria.  Russia and China are not going to like it. 

Having watched the Iran situation develop since '79 I've "never" heard that they were within a year of building a bomb until recently.

Either way, it's going to get ugly and I doubt it's going to stay regional.

[RS762]

Taking Iran out of the picture is the key to stopping the civil war in Syria.  Russia and China are not going to like it. 

It's also key to civil wars starting in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Hezbollah starting a big-ass barrage.  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

Seriously invading Iran can not, and will not help ANYTHING in the middle east.

[EJR914]

Having watched the Iran situation develop since '79 I've "never" heard that they were within a year of building a bomb until recently.

Ohh really?  Well let me google that for you...

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&btnmeta_news_search=1&q=%22less+than+a+year+away%22&oq=%22less+than+a+year+away%22&aq=f&aqi=d1d-o1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1316l5875l0l7267l23l23l0l20l0l2l511l1073l0.1.0.1.0.1l3l0#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&gl=us&tbs=ar:1&tbm=nws&source=hp&q=%22less+than+a+year+away%22+iran+nuclear&pbx=1&oq=%22less+than+a+year+away%22+iran+nuclear&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=0l0l0l174710l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&fp=1&biw=1289&bih=656&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&cad=b

[RS762]

lol there was an article for every year since 2005, and several from 1998.
"less than a year away" [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

Those war drums sure do beat loud.

[sledge]

Taking Iran out of the picture is the key to stopping the civil war in Syria.  Russia and China are not going to like it. 

It's also key to civil wars starting in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Hezbollah starting a big-ass barrage. 

Seriously invading Iran can not, and will not help ANYTHING in the middle east.

I agree with you 100% on those statements.  I also think NOT invading Iran can not, and will not help ANYTHING in the middle east.  With Iran's religious fanatic leaders it is going to be a disaster either way.

Have you ever watched the movie they came out with last year stating that the Iranian leaders are those mentioned in their holy books that will bring about the destruction of the world that will usher in the 12th Imam?

The Coming Is Upon Us.


http://www.iraniumthemovie.com/the-coming-is-upon-us/

The Coming is Upon us - Iran - Imam Mahdi - Dajjal - Messias [ENG SUB]

[EJR914]

lol there was an article for every year since 2005, and several from 1998.
"less than a year away" [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

Those war drums sure do beat loud.

LOL

[EJR914]

The words "Bat Shit Crazy" comes to mind when I think of their wacked out leadership.  This 12th Imam BS is for the birds.

[sledge]

Having watched the Iran situation develop since '79 I've "never" heard that they were within a year of building a bomb until recently.

Ohh really?  Well let me google that for you...

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&btnmeta_news_search=1&q=%22less+than+a+year+away%22&oq=%22less+than+a+year+away%22&aq=f&aqi=d1d-o1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1316l5875l0l7267l23l23l0l20l0l2l511l1073l0.1.0.1.0.1l3l0#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&gl=us&tbs=ar:1&tbm=nws&source=hp&q=%22less+than+a+year+away%22+iran+nuclear&pbx=1&oq=%22less+than+a+year+away%22+iran+nuclear&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=0l0l0l174710l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&fp=1&biw=1289&bih=656&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&cad=b

Maybe there were claims.  Most of what I saw in the google was current or stuff like this:

Iran corruption claims stoke political infighting -...‎
Boston Globe - Dec 17, 2009
The allegations in Tehran aim high: Iran's top-ranked vice president facing ... big political moment in Iran, parliamentary elections less than a year away. ...

Edit: Oh wait, I saw one from 2005.

[EJR914]

Maybe there were claims.  Most of what I saw in the google was current or stuff like this:

Iran corruption claims stoke political infighting -...‎
Boston Globe - Dec 17, 2009
The allegations in Tehran aim high: Iran's top-ranked vice president facing ... big political moment in Iran, parliamentary elections less than a year away. ...

Its ok sledge, I just guess you haven't been paying attention, like some have.

? fresh voice adds to the alarm over Iran's nuclear ambitio...
‎
Times Online - Jan 27, 2005

AM - Iran defiant on nuclear issue as UN rebukes loom
‎
ABC Online - Feb 2, 2006

Us Needs A Missile Defense Against Nuclear Blackmail .
‎
Post And Courier - Jul 21, 1998

Keeping an Eye on Iran's Nuclear Program - OhmyNews...
‎
OhmyNews International - Apr 12, 2007

Sleepwalking to Disaster in Iran
‎
commondreams.org - Mar 30, 2005

USATODAY.com - We can't take chances with Iran
‎
USA Today - Feb 21, 2006

That's just on the first page of google hits.   

Fact is, for over 5 years, the MSM has been feeding us this fucking bullshit that Iran is less than a year away from developing nuclear weapons.  Face it.

[RS762]

Have you ever watched the movie they came out with last year stating that the Iranian leaders are those mentioned in their holy books that will bring about the destruction of the world that will usher in the 12th Imam?

Honestly sledge I do not care.
You think Shia Islam is the first dogmatic apocalyptic religion the world has seen?
It's no different than the shit taught in churches and synagogues, it all has the same result.

Revenge and Subversion is the cornerstone of both Islam and Judaism.
These people are on a crash course, while i want to get the fuck out of the way, you want to drag hundreds of thousands of american soldiers and personnel to be smashed in between the two.

How can you advocate sending troops over seas to this mess?
Seriously? If you care so much go yourself, how can you advocate sending the families of others?

This whole "war with Iran" is just littered with Sadistic, Violent, Statist patterns of thought.
Seriously america, this hyper-nationalist and pro-intervention stance will never work.

[sledge]

? fresh voice adds to the alarm over Iran's nuclear ambitio...
‎
Times Online - Jan 27, 2005

AM - Iran defiant on nuclear issue as UN rebukes loom
‎
ABC Online - Feb 2, 2006

Us Needs A Missile Defense Against Nuclear Blackmail .
‎
Post And Courier - Jul 21, 1998

Keeping an Eye on Iran's Nuclear Program - OhmyNews...
‎
OhmyNews International - Apr 12, 2007

Sleepwalking to Disaster in Iran
‎
commondreams.org - Mar 30, 2005

USATODAY.com - We can't take chances with Iran
‎
USA Today - Feb 21, 2006

That's just on the first page of google hits.   

You call that proof?   LOL!  LOL!  I gotta quit trolling, TG's gonna get me.   

[sledge]

Have you ever watched the movie they came out with last year stating that the Iranian leaders are those mentioned in their holy books that will bring about the destruction of the world that will usher in the 12th Imam?

Honestly sledge I do not care.
You think Shia Islam is the first dogmatic apocalyptic religion the world has seen?
It's no different than the shit taught in churches and synagogues, it all has the same result.

Revenge and Subversion is the cornerstone of both Islam and Judaism.
These people are on a crash course, while i want to get the fuck out of the way, you want to drag hundreds of thousands of american soldiers and personnel to be smashed in between the two.

How can you advocate sending troops over seas to this mess?
Seriously? If you care so much go yourself, how can you advocate sending the families of others?

This whole "war with Iran" is just littered with Sadistic, Violent, Statist patterns of thought.
Seriously america, this hyper-nationalist and pro-intervention stance will never work.

Hold on RS.  I don't advocate sending troops anywhere or doing anything with Iran.  My opinion is doing or not doing anything with them isn't going to make any difference in the outcome.  We are going to be affected by their actions either way.  At that point I suspect you'll care a little more.  Although you won't be able to do anything about it any more than I can.

[RS762]

Although you won't be able to do anything about it any more than I can.

truer words have never been said my friend

[EJR914]

You call that proof?   LOL!  LOL!  I gotta quit trolling, TG's gonna get me.

The problem that I now see with our situation is that I want a non-interventionist policy, but the problem with that, right now, is that if we do that right now, we're fucked.  I'll tell you why.... WE NEED THEIR OIL.  We need cheap gasoline and diesel, our economy depends on it!

Our politicians and government have fucked us.  Our hands are now tied.  We have to do something with Iran now.  Our economy can clearly not handle 8 dollar a gallon gas here right now.  They politicians and our government have made damn sure that we do not drill for the oil that we do have, and that our refineries are so old they are probably close to breaking anyway.  Or the refiners may be private businesses fault, I really don't know.  I know the drilling problem comes directly from our politicians and government.  We either have to bomb the shit out of them and let the CIA provide all the rebels with material support, ect. 

I'd much rather bomb the shit out or Iran and maybe even Syria compared to getting into another conventional war and getting stuck there with a counterinsurgency thing going on like Iraq and 'Stan.  The problem is now, we have to act.

Not to mention, Iran selling oil in gold, instead of US dollars, the Central bank isn't going to stand for that, Igotmydinnerjacket is now on their hit list, just like Kennedy, just like Jackson, and anybody else that has gotten in there way.  You see, they are worried that is going to catch on.

As soon as you know it, more countries are going to start bypassing the dollar for anything.  Soon enough, bye bye US dollar as the reserve currency, and then at that point, bye bye US and your economy. 

Like I said, we've gotten ourselves in such a bad predicament with our backs to the wall that we have to act, we have to fight. 

I still do wonder what the hell would happen, if at this exact day in time, we bring all our troops home, we stop all of our interventionist policies, we take after Thomas Jefferson's words and do commerce with everyone that will and make no allegiances.  I have to wonder if even now, if that could cure a hell of a lot of our problems.

"Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto" - Thomas Jefferson

I think there is a lot of wisdom in that statement.

[sledge]

Your words are absolutely right.  Although, pulling back to our borders hasn't worked in the past and probably wouldn't work in today's world either.  It would be nice, but there are a lot of evil people and want to be emperors out there.

[EJR914]

Your words are absolutely right.  Although, pulling back to our borders hasn't worked in the past and probably wouldn't work in today's world either.  It would be nice, but there are a lot of evil people and want to be emperors out there.

Let them be emperors then.  Fuck 'em.

Please tell us what negative effects the US had on them with a non-interventionist policy, besides the Nazi taking over Europe.  Don't say Pearl Harbour, either, because you know we were not 100 percent innocent in that as well. 

I've found that sometimes sanctions lead to WAR instead of leading to peace.  We need free trade with all nations that will do it with us.  All I see sanctions doing is pissing off countries that eventually attack you, and then we go to war. 

[rah45]

Your words are absolutely right.  Although, pulling back to our borders hasn't worked in the past and probably wouldn't work in today's world either.  It would be nice, but there are a lot of evil people and want to be emperors out there.

Pulling back to our borders and defending our sphere of influence (AKA, the Americas' hemisphere) actually did work well. We didn't have trouble until WWI, and you could only take that partly seriously because Germany was trying to get Mexico to attack us. If it had only been Germany, we could have laughed in their faces. They would not have been able to journey across the ocean to subdue us. Same situation in WWII. We were imperialistic in the Pacific, sure, but Japan came over largely because they wanted natural resources and they wanted to dominate the Pacific. Cuba is in our sphere of influence, and we dealt with the Cuban Missile Crisis. Other than these, we have never been directly threatened except with nuclear war by Russia, a nation that would never have launched on us because we would have launched on it, and whose economy imploded within a handful of decades. We have always proven that we are more than strong enough to secure our sphere of influence, and as long as we've done this we have had no direct threats.

Please don't use the example of the 9/11 attack as a "direct threat." It is a product of blowback from the political meddling and covert operations we've conducted there for decades. If we had left the Mid East alone, it would have left us alone. We gave those people over there American technology, American money, and American training. That's the only reason they were able to do what they did. We bit ourselves in the ass. Oh, wait, correction...the generation in political power at the time, probably your dad/granddad (or my grandfather/great-grandfather), are the ones who bit us in the ass. It's always the older generation making the progressive policies that negatively impact the future generations, isn't it? Kinda like the Federal Reserve, the federal restrictions on "dangerous" firearms, etc. Seems we still haven't learned from our past mistakes.

With love, though...with love. 

[sledge]

Your words are absolutely right.  Although, pulling back to our borders hasn't worked in the past and probably wouldn't work in today's world either.  It would be nice, but there are a lot of evil people and want to be emperors out there.

Let them be emperors then.  Fuck 'em.

Please tell us what negative effects the US had on them with a non-interventionist policy, besides the Nazi taking over Europe.  Don't say Pearl Harbour, either, because you know we were not 100 percent innocent in that as well. 

I've found that sometimes sanctions lead to WAR instead of leading to peace.  We need free trade with all nations that will do it with us.  All I see sanctions doing is pissing off countries that eventually attack you, and then we go to war.

This all goes into Ron Paul's foreign policy argument.  If we pulled back to our borders we would eventually be surrounded by those who would be looking longingly at our property as well.  And it wouldn't take as long as you might think.  Being younger, you'd still be around to see it.

Human nature is what it is.  There will always be unnecessary wars.  Us pulling back to our borders won't stop it or keep us out of them.  It's always been a fact of life.  If we don't go to them they will come to us.  I don't expect everyone to believe it.  But everyone and every generation is going to continue to live it.

There have always been two types of nations.  Those that are victors and those that are trampled on.  Each gets to choose which type they will be.  Usually without even knowing it.

[RS762]

lol would there be Iranian carriers off the coast Sledge?
North Korean spy planes in the skies?
what are you talking about?

[sledge]

lol would there be Iranian carriers off the coast Sledge?
North Korean spy planes in the skies?
what are you talking about?

The most likely would be a Russian and or a Chinese Federation dividing up the world.  Although an Arab Calif could also evolve.
Who knows if there would be Iranian carriers or NK spy planes.  If there were they would be flying the colors of whom ever took them over.  We would just be sitting back waiting for them to decide that we needed to be flying their colors as well.

[RS762]

lol would there be Iranian carriers off the coast Sledge?
North Korean spy planes in the skies?
what are you talking about?

The most likely would be a Russian and or a Chinese Federation dividing up the world.  Although an Arab Calif could also evolve.
Who knows if there would be Iranian carriers or NK spy planes.  If there were they would be flying the colors of whom ever took them over.  We would just be sitting back waiting for them to decide that we needed to be flying their colors as well.

That's pure speculation sledge, Nobody knows who would fill the US power vacuum given a US withdrawal.
All the free real estate could easily put Russia and China back at odds as they have been know to compete with each other until only recently.

The FACT is that China is and would remain a massive trading partner. Our markets are somewhat dependent on each other, and given the fact that the growth of the chinese middle class has been rather slow their US export market will remain. The countries that are pissed at us are the one's we invaded and their friends. We are fucking around with all the countries that BORDER RUSSIA AND CHINA, it's no wonder they are trying to have each other's backs.

The increasing aggressiveness of Eurasian foreign policy is due solely to the increasing western military intervention in the region, is it really that hard to see?

Besides, what makes us better than the Russians or Chinese these days?
An invasion is an invasion, an occupation is still an occupation, and all people hate puppet regimes, whether the string pullers are chinese or american, it doesn't matter, it's equally fucking EVIL.

[sledge]

You're quite right!  The question is, would you rather be a string puller or a puppet?  Although, I doubt we will get to that point because I  suspect it will all blow up around us soon in the mid east.  Then at that point it all starts over again like it has from the beginning.  The population rebounds and there would be those who conquer and those who are conquered.

[RS762]

You're quite right!  The question is, would you rather be a string puller or a puppet?  Although, I doubt we will get to that point because I  suspect it will all blow up around us soon in the mid east.  Then at that point it all starts over again like it has from the beginning.  The population rebounds and there would be those who conquer and those who are conquered.

Ehh, it's all for moot anyway.
lol at the end of the world it'll be you and me arguing on top of a pile of ash, munching on MRE's, eh buddy?

[rah45]

Ehh, it's all for moot anyway.
lol at the end of the world it'll be you and me arguing on top of a pile of ash, munching on MRE's, eh buddy?

Until Reaver emerges from under the pile of ash with a knife, fork, and an evil grin.