Author Topic: Argentina situation  (Read 2088 times)

Offline APX808

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Argentina situation
« on: September 20, 2011, 03:15:09 PM »
Argentina is a country that is screwed up since a long long time.
Our constitution is a bad copy of the ones from United States and France, countries that declared their independence a few years before us.
For instance, in the article 21 it says that ?every citizen has the obligation to arm itself to defend the country and/or the constitution? that?s fantastic, but then it?s screwed as it continues ?in accordance to the laws dictated by the congress or decrees by the executive?.
So, you can defend the constitution only if the ones who are violating it allow you? pretty contradictory if you ask me.

Then article 25 says that the government can?t restrict or limit the immigration of any foreigner with good intentions and will to work. Reality shows that this open borders policy allowed and continues to allow the immigration of tons of bad people, like WW2 war criminals, terrorist, drug dealers and entire families from countries in the region looking for a government to provide them houses, health and education.

In Argentina people thinks that the government has the obligation to provide you with houses, work, free education and free health services, so there are tons of people who continually do protests, cut streets and highways etc asking for what they think is their right, most of times that people is used with political goals by the opponents of the party that has the power at the moment.

Long history short, I never saw or read about a good government in this country, we had a collection of demagogues populists, military dictatorships and utterly useless guys.

The inflation


I was a child but I remember the hyperinflation?
In the picture you can see the inflation numbers, in the ?89 we had like 8000%
The stores changed the prices of their products multiple times a day, so when the people got their salary they went running to the stores to spend it all in food.
I remember the bills starting having so fucking many zeroes in them that the people started calling the bills by their color because they had no clue how to read those numbers, everyone was a millionaire at that time :D



So, the riots started and Alfonsin, the president at that moment had to leave.

Then Menem won, and the country was somewhat stabilized, but the price of it was the destruction of the national industry, the unemployment started to grow like crazy, and in 2003 it was more than 20%

In 2001 was the big crisis when the riot started and finished with the president at that moment, De La Rua, resigning. The country hit rock bottom at that moment.
There was a ton of people that had not work, the banks run out of dollars so all the deposits were retained in what is known as ?El Corralito? so you couldn?t retire or use your savings, there was a small quota of money you could get monthly.
The states governments didn?t have any money either, and the federal government didn?t send any, so they started emitting bonds that were used as normal money.

It was in those years when bartering started, in each town started to appear the ?bartering clubs? where people offered services or things to exchange.
That helped a lot of people to pass those hard times, but it also was used by delinquents in order to sell stuff that previously was impossible, like forks, doors, cups, toilets, you mention it.
At that time I was living in a small city on the sea shore, so there were a lot of houses that were only occupied in summer, those houses were completely emptied.
So the government tried to enforce some controls on the bartering clubs, but they continued until the situation somewhat stabilized and then they closed.

About the 2001 crisis? FerFal spices up things a bit too much to promote his book, I never read his book but I did with his blog.
2001 was a hard year, but this wasn?t Mad Max, the people kept going to work everyday, schools and stores opened, we still paid taxes and the police could detain you and send you to jail just like always.

The rioting was in some specific places in the federal district, the rest of the country continued as always, shitty but working.

The insecurity on the streets grow, but that?s the product of years of abandonment and lack of education and culture of work, drugs have a big part on it too.

In 2003 50% of the country was under the line of poverty, that means that 50% of the country didn?t have the money to live a standard life, and there was a 25% of indigence.

Because of that the ?Villas?, similar to the favelas in Rio, started to multiply and continue to grow everyday non stop. In there the state has no presence, and drug dealers and delinquents rule. 

Now everyday people is killed in car robberies and everyone lives scared, even smaller cities and towns started having serious security issues.

I could talk about that for a long time? let?s finish this part in here, I?ll add more later.

What I can tell you is that things aren't like in the book Patriots, when there is an economic collapse, the shit doesn't hit the fan to everyone at the same time, there isn't a clear line between SHTF and no SHTF.
People tries their best to continue with their usual life, because they have a wife and sons to feed, and if you get your ass killed or in jail they'll be alone when they need you the most.
You start living cheaper, you stop spending on useless crap, some people grow food in their gardens, or rise animals to eat, or look for new ways to get some money, like collecting used paper to sell it to recyclers.

Some people does crazy things, like and old man whose son was sick and needed the money for medicines, so he bought a deactivated grenade and went to the bank to tell the manager that if they didnt give him his dollars everyone would die. The old man got his money, but a few days later was arrested.

In a few hours I'll write about gun laws in here.
Any question you have post it, I'll do my best to answer them.

Ghost

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Re: Argentina situation
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2011, 03:30:46 PM »
Great post man. I have one question. Did people do much hunting and fishing for food?


Can't wait to read more of your stuff [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

Offline special-k

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Re: Argentina situation
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2011, 03:38:48 PM »
Muy interesting.
"It wouldn't do any good.  I've had the shit beat out of me a lot of times.  I just replenish with more shit."  - Billy McBride

Offline EJR914

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Re: Argentina situation
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2011, 04:45:18 PM »
Wow, great post!  Just fascinating.  I see what happened in Argentina to be EXACTLY was is happening here.  All the entitlements, the Federal government doing nothing to stop illegal immigrants from coming in, and some of them are criminals and moochers who are sucking off the system instead of working.

Our Constitution was such a beautiful document, but with the addition of a few amendments, the Federal government grabbed more and more power, and nobody was able to stop them, including post-Civil War.  Now the Federal government can literally do whatever it wants to us, and the Supreme Court will pretty much agree with it and allow it.

I know you think our 2nd amendment is so great here, but its disappearing by the moment.  The Supreme Court after hundreds of years, basically said exactly what your country has just said.  They say we have the "right" to have a firearm in our home, but that REASONABLE RESTRICTIONS OR INFRINGEMENTS, can be put on our right to own a firearm, including banning carrying, or transporting a firearm, banning certain firearms, except only for government law enforcement, ect. 

Thank you so much for your post, and its amazing how America's economy and politics are basically becoming exactly like yours was and is, and how we are mirroring exactly what you saw in your country.  We have become a complete and total Socialist country, and our Capitalist system and Republic are all but dead.  The Constitution and Supreme Court here, no longer protect the rights of the minority, from the whims of the majority.  You could say we have turned more into a Democracy or Oligarchy, even though that's not the way we are set up, or the way we were supposed to be.  Not to mention the government entitlements to education, housing, food, and just straight up cash for no other reason then they are "poor" even though most are able bodied and could work.  Just makes you sick.

Its sad to think that one day, if we do not change our course in this country (I don't see it happening) that America could look a whole lot like Argentina in a very short amount of time, maybe within decades or sooner. 

Awesome post, and I'm going to re-read it again to make sure I didn't miss anything.   [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 04:52:05 PM by EJR914 »

Burt Gummer

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Re: Argentina situation
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 05:02:12 PM »
Grande post, cabron! [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

Offline APX808

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Re: Argentina situation
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2011, 06:40:58 PM »
hey guys, I'm back

I was thinking about what to tell you in this post and I'll talk about the gun laws in here that EJR914 asked about it, and about the "piqueteros" that is the way we call the people that cut a street, bridge, road or highway as a way of protest.

The guns

In order to own a gun you have to register and get a license that is valid for 5 years, and then you have to renew it, you are asked to do a psychological and a medical exam and a shooting instructor takes you a quick exam consisting of shooting 5 shoots without killing anyone around you :D he just checks you gun handling, that license is called CLU.

Once you have the CLU you can get a gun, but only after the gun gets registered under your name, that takes like 15 days. So there is no way to get a gun quickly in here, unless you buy or rent it in the black market.

A civilian can own a gun of any caliber, but you can't have long semi auto weapons unless a judge allows you to do so, thing that is virtually impossible unless you are absolutely loaded and have contacts in the right places.

Auto weapons and silencers are absolutely forbidden and you could end up in jail.

About carrying...

A few years ago you could get a CCW license that was valid for a year, and it was a chore to get, but since the semi communist shitty government we have now got elected they started to refuse all the solicitations, so almost no civilian in this country can carry legally, unless you are loaded, you are a politician or have very powerful friends.

The CCW in here is only for a single short weapon, so forget about backups.

You could get like 10 years of prison for carrying without the proper license.

Open carry is science fiction, you'll wind up in jail or ventilated as soon as a police sees you.

In the urban areas the civilian population is very brainwashed by the disarmist, a lot of people thinks weapons are bad and dangerous, and that owning a gun makes you more susceptible to get killed if a delinquent gets into you home.

In the most rural areas on the other side, most people owns shotguns or .22 rifles.

Funny thing about gun laws in here is that for self defense purposes you only can use FMJ ammo, and that is valid for the police forces too, that's unbelievable and its because of the Geneva Protocol.

I don't know how but criminals get detained with guns and they get free anyway...

The Piqueteros

In the 90's when the unemployment was crazily high because all the industries were closing, the unemployed workers needed a way to protests, as they couldn't make a usual strike because they had no workplace, they started cutting the roads. They crossed logs, set tires on fire and didn't allowed anyone to pass, that way they got media attention and they could express their claims.

That way of protesting continued for years, people hated it but somewhat supported it because the country situation was so shitty that everyone wanted to protest, but with the time everyone started to cut streets, people from the unions, unemployed, the retired, people asking for social plans, houses, students.

At the moment in the federal district there are 4 different piquetes by day, each of those organized by different organizations asking for different things.

Driving gets impossible due the extremely high car amount and because the main traffic arteries get cut without warning, also the piqueteros start moving so the police can't re route the traffic.

The piquetes started having people with sticks, chains and the piqueteros were with their  faces covered, and also started using women and children as human shields.

As everything in this country, political parties and leftist groups started using the piqueteros to create chaos or political goals.
And that way appeared the officialist piqueteros and the opposing piqueteros.

One known officialist piqueteros leader, D'elia with ties with the actual government took by force a police station and stole weapons and he is free and talking in the media.

There is a very special case were people cut an international bridge connecting Argentina with Uruguay for 4 years!! More details here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulp_mill_dispute

Also a few years ago, when the government wanted to retain the 35% of the agricultural sells the rural workers and owners started an extremely bug and national protest where they cut interstate roads, those protests were intermittent but lasted for months.

The piquetes violate the free circulation constitutional right, but none of the three branches of the government did anything to stop them, and continues to do nothing, and that's because the government says that they don't want to attack the right of the people to manifest themselves and also because they say that repressing the protest deaths may occur... utter bullshit in my opinion :D

I wrote too much... Time for some pictures

D'elia the piqueteros officialist leader punching a man that was protesting against the Kirchner government.
The titular says "Man is hit and disfigured by punches and kicks ", that's from Cronica TV, if you want yellow journalism, that's the channel you need to see in here :D


Some piqueteros with their usual friendly look



An piquetero encampment in the main avenue in the federal district, claimed to be the wider avenue in the world, those encampment lasted for days




Offline WhiskeyJack

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Re: Argentina situation
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2011, 12:16:21 PM »
great post man thank u for sharing that.
Good whiskey, makes Jack Rabbit smack da bear.

Offline rah45

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Re: Argentina situation
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2011, 12:33:45 PM »
This information is awesome, but I would not be a true servant to mankind if I did not mention this: as I was browsing the Wiki page for the Pulp Mill incident, I discovered Evangelina Carrozzo. Oh. My. God.

Offline APX808

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Re: Argentina situation
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2011, 01:05:50 PM »
This information is awesome, but I would not be a true servant to mankind if I did not mention this: as I was browsing the Wiki page for the Pulp Mill incident, I discovered Evangelina Carrozzo. Oh. My. God.


LOLZ, she got her 10 minutes of fame thanks to the pulp mill incident
For the ones interested in this fighter for the nature and the natural resources, you can check her work at http://www.notiblog.com/category/evangelina-carrozzo/  ;D