Author Topic: Russia And Ukraine Are On The Brink Of War – And Why That Could Lead To World Wa  (Read 592 times)

Offline JoJo

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  The Russians in Cuba now look ominous. If war breaks out between the Ukraine and Russia we'll be in a world of hurt.
Read the full story here.


http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/russia-and-ukraine-are-on-the-brink-of-war-and-why-that-could-lead-to-world-war-3_11262018
Quote

A respected foreign journalist living in Ukraine is warning that a war that most Americans cannot even imagine “teeters on the razor thin edge of becoming real”. When Russia opened fire on Ukrainian Navy vessels and captured three of their ships, it made headlines all over the globe. An emergency meeting of the UN Security Council was hastily arranged for Monday at 11 AM, and hopefully there will be a positive outcome from that meeting. Because right now Moscow and Kiev are on the brink of war, and once a Russian invasion happens there will be no turning back. At that point the U.S. would have a major decision to make, and if we chose to defend Ukraine that could mean that we would suddenly find ourselves fighting World War 3.

Most people don’t realize that this crisis has been simmering for over a week. The following is from a U.S. News & World Report article that was posted on November 19th…

    A dispute over shipping lanes is threatening to reignite the 4-year-old simmering war between Ukraine and Russia following confrontations sparked by both sides in recent days.

    Russian border guards on Monday detained Ukrainian fishing vessels in the Sea of Azov, a strategically important body of water contained to the north by Ukraine, to the west by the Crimean Peninsula and to the east and south by Russia. Monday’s incident came days after Russian President Vladimir Putin slammed Kiev for detaining Russian commercial ships also in the Azov in what he described as “a totally illegal move” and which Kremlin officials have warned may prompt retaliation.
In principle, no less than in practice, socialism is the ideology of thieves and tyrants.

Offline patriotman

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I think that Russia is most certainly kicking their destabilization plans into high gear both within our own borders as well as in Europe. They know that if they are to make a move on the borderlands they need a distracted US and a divided Europe and that any move needs to happen sooner rather than later before NATO moves more troops into the region as part of Eastern Europe's request for additional resources.
Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

Psalm 144:1-2

Offline Jackalope

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   Blitzkreig!

Offline Nemo

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   Blitzkreig!

More of a head for the hills in a haul ass manner.

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Offline patriotman

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It should also be noted that in the last round of training the US military did in the Balkans/Eastern Europe, they focused less on peer to peer conflict and more on "well, they are going to steam roll you, so here is how to wage a small unit clandestine war" because that is the only shot they have: low level insurgency.
Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

Psalm 144:1-2

gadget99

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Of note on this is that we do have troops in some countries that border Russia already.

They are on a rotational basis. Yet they are a presence. Poland is negotiating for a larger permanent US Force to be stationed there.

My point is that while we may be concerned by moves made by Russia. Russia and the previous USSR have had American Military Forces stationed on their borders since WWII. The recent activity by Russia is just more of the same from them. Been like this for a very long time.

As I said in another thread. I am more interested in the long game objectives of them and China.

As a side thought, I sometimes wonder if the 2016 election backfired. I sometimes wonder if Russia wanted Hillary to win. Due to her being a known quantity.

Offline patriotman

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Oh, I am aware that we have some troops there. But we don't have a sufficient number of troops to prevent them from rolling through Ukraine into Poland. That is why Poland wants more troops. Thus, IF Russia is going to make a move on the borderlands, THEN it is going to happen before we move additional troops (as we have been slowly increasing the size of troop rotations in Eastern Europe) AND before we build the permanent Poland base AND before Europe stops being dysfunctional AND before we stabilize in the homeland.

The long game is that China carves out their sphere of influence, Russia carves out theirs, and they find a way to circumvent the economic power of the United States either by bilateral agreements to conduct transactions without converting the $$ to USD first (we see the beginnings of this with agreements to make purchases straight from yuan to/from rubles) or using the IMF's SDR currency basket as the world reserve currency as opposed to the USD because it would severely hurt the US. We see this with their move to try and find alternative to SWIFT (accelerated by Europe's desire to avoid out sanctions on Iran to save the Iran Agreement) since we have a stranglehold on that as well as creating their own development banks a la BRICS. Combined with economic warfare, they need to weaken us and our stability. So far, it is all working.

The empire of the United States is slowly crumbling (not surprising given we have hit the average length of empires accord to John Glubb in the Fate of Empires).
Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

Psalm 144:1-2

Offline JoJo

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Quote
As a side thought, I sometimes wonder if the 2016 election backfired. I sometimes wonder if Russia wanted Hillary to win. Due to her being a known quantity.

Of course they wanted HilLiary to win they had her in their pocket. She sold them 20% of our uranium besides they like every Republican knew she would be a very weak President. She is so stupid she lost a rigged election.
In principle, no less than in practice, socialism is the ideology of thieves and tyrants.

Offline patriotman

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Quote
As a side thought, I sometimes wonder if the 2016 election backfired. I sometimes wonder if Russia wanted Hillary to win. Due to her being a known quantity.

Of course they wanted HilLiary to win they had her in their pocket. She sold them 20% of our uranium besides they like every Republican knew she would be a very weak President. She is so stupid she lost a rigged election.

+1
Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

Psalm 144:1-2

Offline Erick

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People its not about the freaking Russians.

they just want to be left alone and keep as many of their people as possible defended (even though I think Putin went a bit too far in Ukraine though the events there are certainly complex)

The people beating the war drums are on one side our old men who havent grown out of their cold war youth when there was an ideological divide (which no longer exists The USA is the godless communists now in many ways, compared to them)

And the other side is the american left which hates them since they have thrown off the yoke of the our left's fellow communists .. and so they are a symbol that socialism is not a line of progress but that this abomination can be stopped and even reversed.

So we have 2 major opposing domestic political forces in the US united in trying to drum up new cold war enmity.
And any reaction Russia dares to show to this constant hysteria is being hyped as "yet another proof" how "evil" they are ..

This is how World Wars are manufactured!
We need to step away from falling into that trap and focus on our true enemy.

The existential threat to the United States is our domestic left.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 02:11:45 PM by Erick »
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Offline patriotman

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People its not about the freaking Russians.

they just want to be left alone and keep as many of their people as possible defended (even though I think Putin went a bit too far in Ukraine though the events there are certainly complex)

The people beating the war drums are on one side our old men who havent grown out of their cold war youth when there was an ideological divide (which no longer exists The USA is the godless communists now in many ways, compared to them)

And the other side is the american left which hates them since they have thrown off the yoke of the our left's fellow communists .. and so they are a symbol that socialism is not a line of progress but that this abomination can be stopped and even reversed.

So we have 2 major opposing domestic political forces in the US united in trying to drum up new cold war enmity.
And any reaction Russia dares to show to this constant hysteria is being hyped as "yet another proof" how "evil" they are ..

This is how World Wars are manufactured!
We need to step away from falling into that trap and focus on our true enemy.

The existential threat to the United States is our domestic left.

Respectfully I disagree. Russia and China would like nothing more than to see us fall. There is a reason Russian propaganda was focused on divisive issues in our election cycles. They want a divided America because a divided America means that they can be less threatened on their borders. Their threat to us is more economic in nature at the moment. But, if it goes hot in their borderlands, you can bet that those 50,000 AKs being manufactured in Venezuela will be going, in part to those agents who are currently receiving instructions from the very active Cuban numbers station through the very porous border. The more distracted and divided we are at home, the less we can coordinate a response to the Russians or the Chinese. China is doing the same thing with their purchase of radio stations along the southern border in Mexico as well as the economic war they are waging through their theft of industrial and military technology as well as their funding of propaganda outlets in US universities such as the Confucius Institute.

The domestic Left is an enemy, yes, but to underestimate the threat that Russian and China pose to the US is naive - particularly since so many on the domestic left think very highly of Maoism and would welcome the Chinese with open arms. They also support the Leftism that currently exists in countries that are currently affiliated with and working with Russia.


Are there people trying to manufacture a Cold War? Yes. Does Russia pose a threat to the United States? Yes. Those are not mutually exclusive.
Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

Psalm 144:1-2

gadget99

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I have to agree with Eric in a way....

Due to our modern world being more connected than ever. We members of the public are given and have access to more information than we can individually process.

The global dynamics in play today are pretty much the same as they have always been. The difference is that we hear about stuff we would have never known about in the past. The information we and our governments receive is just as flawed as it has always been. The misinformation that we are experiencing has been happening as it always has. The only difference is that the speed of information has increased big time, as well as the level of information that the public is exposed to.

Now that being said. We need to remember that the leadership of any nation is responsible for looking after the interests of their nation first. I tend to chuckle and then become stunned by the commentary I see flying around that points to the actions of a nation looking after its own interests as being evil. People in the west demonise Putin without acknowledging that he is just doing his job for his nation unapologetic-ally.

Are their nation state adversaries that represent a danger to sovereign nations in the west? Yes of course. However we have to understand that the world being as it is now. Those dangers are also different. The economies of almost every developed nation are so intertwined that the collapse of one can mess up others. We have seen this happen before in the not to distant past.

I do not see the current and normal adversarial activity as being anything like what we had in the past. We do not live in a all or nothing, west vs east world anymore. We are living in a world that in that aspect is much safer than before. While the trigger of world war does and always will exist. We are not on the hair trigger.

You must remember these are the musings of a madman so take as you will from this.

We do however face some existential threats as we always have. The treats have changed and evolved as they always do.
1. We are not the masters of the natural world so that world still possesses the ability to mess us up big time.
2. we still face the potential of getting smacked by the crazy person or group of crazy people.
3. We are currently under a major threat from within. Not specifically from the manipulators in our society. Their like have always been there. The threat we face is from human stupidity and laziness. Lazy because many members of society do not feel the need to apply critical thinking to the world. They are content to be told what to think. (This is not confined to the left of our society)

There are more threats. Yet the last one I quoted is the one that concern's me the most. Primarily because is is preventable and in a spiral.

The forces of manipulation are pretty much consistent with our historical experience. Nations, Politicians, special interests and such have always sought to influence the populace in the game.

The critical difference is that the flow of information (Both real and fabricated) is so much faster. So much more detailed also.

So after my setting the stage. I look at much of what happens around the globe with a more critical eye. I remind myself that nations and their leadership will act in the best interests of their nations first. I remind myself that this means that much of the information I see and find is subject to manipulation. So I take time to think about stuff.

While Russia and China do represent an adversarial position to the west as they always have. I must keep in mind that their actions are usually only in their self interest as opposed to a "Doctor Evil" scheme to destroy the west.

For the "Doctor Evil" thing all you have to do is look at the VERY ACTIVE manipulators in our society (From All Sides).

OK Essay over......  :tinfoil: :tinfoil:

Offline patriotman

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I had a much longer post typed out in response, but deleted it as I don't feel it would have contributed to the changing of opinions. I will say this.

The assertion I was responding to was "People its not about the freaking Russians. they just want to be left alone and keep as many of their people as possible defended (even though I think Putin went a bit too far in Ukraine though the events there are certainly complex)" which is 100% inaccurate in my eyes. This assertion suggests that Putin is only on the defensive. That is not true. He is on the offensive, and to turn a blind eye to that is to leave a gap in your preparations.

Yes, the Left poses a threat. We all see that. But if you don't think that the Russians (with their SIGINT base in Cuba, AK factory in Venezuela,  and their recent overtures to SE Asia) and China (with their holding of US Treasuries, significant investment in South American raw materials and mining + loans to indebted countries there, Silk Road initiative, aggression in the South China Sea, and recent purchase of oil in yuan as opposed to USD) pose a threat both individually and with BRICS, then I don't really know what to say. We abandoned South America for a long time, and they both have been making inroads.

This isn't about warmongering. This is about a lot of countries getting tired of the US being the preeminent power coupled with the fact that we are reaching the typical end of the lifespan for empires.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/16/james-mattis-south-american-countries-selling-sove/

Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

Psalm 144:1-2

gadget99

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I had a much longer post typed out in response, but deleted it as I don't feel it would have contributed to the changing of opinions. I will say this.

The assertion I was responding to was "People its not about the freaking Russians. they just want to be left alone and keep as many of their people as possible defended (even though I think Putin went a bit too far in Ukraine though the events there are certainly complex)" which is 100% inaccurate in my eyes. This assertion suggests that Putin is only on the defensive. That is not true. He is on the offensive, and to turn a blind eye to that is to leave a gap in your preparations.

Yes, the Left poses a threat. We all see that. But if you don't think that the Russians (with their SIGINT base in Cuba, AK factory in Venezuela,  and their recent overtures to SE Asia) and China (with their holding of US Treasuries, significant investment in South American raw materials and mining + loans to indebted countries there, Silk Road initiative, aggression in the South China Sea, and recent purchase of oil in yuan as opposed to USD) pose a threat both individually and with BRICS, then I don't really know what to say. We abandoned South America for a long time, and they both have been making inroads.

This isn't about warmongering. This is about a lot of countries getting tired of the US being the preeminent power coupled with the fact that we are reaching the typical end of the lifespan for empires.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/16/james-mattis-south-american-countries-selling-sove/
Ah.... we forgot to tell you one of the VERY important reasons we love this community.

We debate in a healthy fashion. There are no flame wars on this forum.

I'm our debates we hold dear the reserved right to agree to disagree.

What I DO find wonderful about this community and our discussions. Is that as we debate and communicate our views. We all find grains of truth in most of the differing views.

This advances our understanding of what is happening in our chaotic times.

One thing I am sure of is that we prep, because something is going to kick us in the balls at some point. It is most likely going to be a "well that surprised us a bit" type of thing. Yet by debating as we do here keeps us aware of the potential risks enough to lessen the surprise.

Let's keep the debate going.

Offline JohnyMac

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Yes gadget you are correct in the thinking that one of the best things about Unchainedpreppers is that:

"Ah.... we forgot to tell you one of the VERY important reasons we love this community.

We debate in a healthy fashion. There are no flame wars on this forum.

I'm our debates we hold dear the reserved right to agree to disagree.

What I DO find wonderful about this community and our discussions. Is that as we debate and communicate our views. We all find grains of truth in most of the differing views."


Now my 2¢ worth or, opinions are like arm pits, we all have one.

I believe that the end game is to move the world off of the US petrol $$$.

The best way to do that is have Americans fight Americans. We are seeing that now. I truly feel that Russia and China are behind that and our so called allies are turning a blind eye to what as happening because they in their hearts of hearts would love to see America  fall from grace. Why should China and/or Russia launch a missile or cross our border to take us out when we are willing to do it in today's climate.

China and Russia just needs to add a little spice to their recipe (The Cold War era White Paper*) to make it happen. The AK-103 plant in Venezuela, the buying of radio stations along the border in Mexico, buying our T-Bills, reopening the SIGNET base in Cuba, the funding of the caravan, etc is the name of the spice (s).

In closing, it is to take the US $$$ out of the global game. And it will happen. As in almost any crime, follow the money.

Last, as I stated above, we will be taken out of the global $$$ game. It will be an economic "take down" through a Civil War, recession/depression, stock market collapse, the demand by T-Bill lenders for a pay back, etc. It will come. Are you and your family prepared?

* = Russian White Paper was their Cold War plan on taking out the USofA. I use to have  copy on one of my old laptops but just to busy to look for it. If you have access to it please share. Thx
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Offline JoJo

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 Have you ever met someone so stupid and I mean really stupid someone like Rep Schitt oops I meant Schiff or Swalwell  that they don’t even realize they are working for Putin. People like them have hampered the President so much that he is almost neutered in foreign relations.
 Putin is trying to put the USSR back together and China is trying to rule Asia
 The Democrats are supporting the Central American invasion which is more than likely funded by Russia and China, President Trump is fighting a four front political war ans it just might get HOT.
 


Waiting for December 5th. Hope it for real.
In principle, no less than in practice, socialism is the ideology of thieves and tyrants.

Offline patriotman

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I had a much longer post typed out in response, but deleted it as I don't feel it would have contributed to the changing of opinions. I will say this.

The assertion I was responding to was "People its not about the freaking Russians. they just want to be left alone and keep as many of their people as possible defended (even though I think Putin went a bit too far in Ukraine though the events there are certainly complex)" which is 100% inaccurate in my eyes. This assertion suggests that Putin is only on the defensive. That is not true. He is on the offensive, and to turn a blind eye to that is to leave a gap in your preparations.

Yes, the Left poses a threat. We all see that. But if you don't think that the Russians (with their SIGINT base in Cuba, AK factory in Venezuela,  and their recent overtures to SE Asia) and China (with their holding of US Treasuries, significant investment in South American raw materials and mining + loans to indebted countries there, Silk Road initiative, aggression in the South China Sea, and recent purchase of oil in yuan as opposed to USD) pose a threat both individually and with BRICS, then I don't really know what to say. We abandoned South America for a long time, and they both have been making inroads.

This isn't about warmongering. This is about a lot of countries getting tired of the US being the preeminent power coupled with the fact that we are reaching the typical end of the lifespan for empires.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/16/james-mattis-south-american-countries-selling-sove/
Ah.... we forgot to tell you one of the VERY important reasons we love this community.

We debate in a healthy fashion. There are no flame wars on this forum.

I'm our debates we hold dear the reserved right to agree to disagree.

What I DO find wonderful about this community and our discussions. Is that as we debate and communicate our views. We all find grains of truth in most of the differing views.

This advances our understanding of what is happening in our chaotic times.

One thing I am sure of is that we prep, because something is going to kick us in the balls at some point. It is most likely going to be a "well that surprised us a bit" type of thing. Yet by debating as we do here keeps us aware of the potential risks enough to lessen the surprise.

Let's keep the debate going.

Which is why I deleted my original post, waited a while, and submitted the comment I did. Agree to disagree, and I felt that nothing I was going to contribute would sway opinions. I posted that mostly to clarify that I obviously think that BOTH are a threat, which I wasn't sure came across in the original post. I don't discount the comments on the Left obviously as I think a civil disturbance is one of the stepping stones on the road to the Russian plan, but I don't like the underestimation of our enemies as it is the plan they outlined as Johny so eloquently pointed out.
Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

Psalm 144:1-2

gadget99

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Cool Beans Patriotman.......

There is a VERY large amount of complexity in the current global dynamics at the moment. So it requires keeping a watch on what is happening from various viewpoints.

As an American living in the UK. My comments come from the observations from this angle so are tempered by what I am not seeing from here.

Both have always been a threat and their actions do warrant concern. Not trying to minimise the threat they pose. Their current actions are on par with their historical activities and slightly less severe than during the height of the Cold War. With the threat of global nuclear war being less than it was at the height of the cold war. Their current actions can be easily viewed as less of a threat.

Thank you for working to keep us alert to the potentials in current times.

I am just distracted by threats that are more local to the UK at the moment. So they are higher on my threat list at the moment.

Russia did use propaganda to assist the UK Brexit vote outcome. A weaker EU is in the best interests of Russia. So not happy with the meddling. Yet I am more upset by the weak minds that were so very easily influenced by all forms of manipulation that took place during that campaign.

We are 4 months out from the official exit date and there still is not agreed upon deal or plan. Things might be getting messed up on this one. I will try and put an update thread in the near future on the situation. Once I get a handle on what is happening. Everything is so fluid it is difficult to get a coherent detailed picture together. Other than the analogy of "Slow Motion Train Wreck".

Cheers all.