Denninger on Occupy Oakland

[CrystalHunter1989]

First, read this: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=196582

Then give your thoughts on wether or not we could be approaching another "Kent State" moment. Oakland doesn't exactly have a good tract record. Riots happen for just about any reason, but as many people have said, California is a testing ground for what might show up in other parts of the nation.

And don't forget that in every "national" movement, rioting in key cities swayed public opinion (think Easter Uprising, October Revolution, Tunisia).

[Colombo]

I doubt it'll be a kent state moment, I suspect the military won't be involved until at least a few serious incidents involving the crowd getting destructive and the police being overwhelmed. When that happens then martial law will rear it's ugly and illegal head, I just hope our troops balk and at least drag their feet when given those orders. The irony of the situation as I see it is the crowds will be more easily stirred up with an increase in presence and willingness of law enforcement to use more harsh methods, the escalation will get out of control and then we wind up with molotovs getting tossed as in Greece (with the militarization of police forces we know where this leads). It hasn't shown up yet but I suspect there are individuals waiting to make an attack on the infrastructure under the cover of these protests when the opportunity presents itself. If or when the protests turn to riots is when the serious property damage and attacks will show up. When the police are occupied in certain areas the flash mob has its opportunity and I suspect this will soon occur.

[sledge]

I watched the video's in the other thread  http://straightprep.com/forum/index.php?topic=883.msg8706#msg8706

I'm not sure if the cops were justified in using tear gas or not as what influenced them to do that wasn't shown.  The rubber bullets are a definite concern though.  Rubber bullets should only be used up close where they can be aimed properly at the torso.  If the police were firing them indiscriminately at distance, which seems to be the case due to the gas.   Then those were reckless actions by rogue cops which could have easily caused trauma or death among the crowd if they struck protesters in the head.

Oakland has obviously made the decision from the top to come down hard on the protesters in order to nip the occupy movement problem in the bud in their city.  That decision was probably made due to past riot events which are not uncommon in Oakland. 

Look for these same police tactics to occur in other cities.  The NYPD is complaining that crime is up in NY City because so much of their police force is dedicated to the Occupy protesters.  They claim this is leaving the rest of the city wide open to criminals.  The occupy movement will be tested soon and this could turn very violent.

Now you can start looking for gas masks to increase in price due to demand.   

[sledge]

Here's more information on this.

Oakland police, Occupy protestors clash again

Oakland police officers shot beanbag rounds and lobbed tear gas at Occupy protestors during clashes Tuesday night in the downtown area that culminated in more than 100 arrests.


Police finally cleared the area of protestors just before midnight.

City officials justified the use of force by police, saying that protestors had hurled bottles, rocks, eggs, beer, paint and other objects at officers first.

Protestors countered by saying that police gave them little time to disperse before moving in with tear gas. Occupy Oakland protestors also said police had fired rubber bullets, a claim that police deny.

The demonstrators say they had just completed a march around the downtown area and had assembled in front of City Hall when police ordered them to leave. However, protestors say that instead of giving the crowd time to leave that police officers immediately began acting by firing flash grenades.

Two officers and an unknown number of demonstrators were injured. At its peak, the protestors numbered about 1,000.

City officials say that once police establish calm in the area that it will be open for peaceful demonstrations of free speech during normal park hours from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. daily.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/90063426?Oakland%20police%2C%20Occupy%20protestors%20clash%20again

[JohnyMac]

I may be finding myself on the wrong side of this discussion with you folks. With that said, I do think the police have the right to clear an area IF the protesters are in violation of the law. It was clear to me that the protesters in Oakland were in violation of city ordinances.

In NYC I am appalled that Mayor Bloomfield has not moved those protesters out of the park and surrounding area's. The businesses in the area are suffering and it is a health issue. When they marched on the upper side did you notice how they didn't march on Sors's block? Or are you aware that Soro's met with NYC's Police Chief? http://www.theblaze.com/stories/did-the-nypd-police-commissioner-meet-with-george-soros-in-secret/

All that these protesters want is get in conflicts with the Police so they can get on the TV. What I am praying for is that we have an early and harsh winter in the NE so these spoiled children go home with their IPhones. 

 

[Outonowhere]

First off, to make a clarification, Bean bags, rubber bullets and other LESS-than-LETHAL projectiles are never intended to be used at very close range, within 35 feet if I remember correctly.  This is because at the close distant these devices have a higher probability of being NOT SO less-than-lethal.  In my opinion for this situation getting shot is getting shot.  There are too many variables for someone to deploy a device like that without a higher probability of shit going wrong.  I want to know, if its that f*cking bad, why haven't they pulled pages from the G8/G20 and use sound cannons, etc.  Tear Gas, sure.  Flash bangs, why not I guess... but unless the entire crowd is actively violent (paint is so lethal to touch!), the use of rubber bullets is overkill at best.

[Colombo]

No worries JohnyMac, I'm actually on both and neither side. I'm glad to see an actual confrontation between the government and the people as it brings up first amendment issues and the question of exactly what are the police protecting and who is directing them. I suspect this could work out to bring awareness and just maybe restore some of the rights that have been eroded over the years. The fact that many of the protesters may in fact be imbeciles or socialists just makes me smile more since their spearheading the confrontation. As for the police my opinion of law enforcement has been dropping steadily since I first noticed the trend towards revenue generation, militarization and arrogance, that's not to include all officers but the overall trend has not been for the better or the constitution in my opinion.