Pakistan shuts down border

[Skippy00004]

http://youtu.be/mS_jVDimp5M

Thousands of trucks carrying supplies to NATO forces in Afghanistan were stranded after Pakistan closed its border.  They say it is in retaliation for the NATO air strike that killed 24 pakistani troops.  The air strike sparked protests where protesters chanted "the only remedy for america, is jihad."

[gapatriot]

I say good for Pakistan!!! We have been killing their citizens and waging war with drones in their country illegally. They should have done it months ago!

[NOLA556]

I say good for Pakistan!!! We have been killing their citizens and waging war with drones in their country illegally. They should have done it months ago!

 [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[sledge]

I say good for Pakistan!!! We have been killing their citizens and waging war with drones in their country illegally. They should have done it months ago!

I understand your feelings on this.  But there is a whole bunch of gray area here.

[gapatriot]

Is that the same grey area that allows our military to kill a us citizen? not capture kill with a drone attack. Its cut and dry, Pakistan is a sovourn nation we have kinda treated them like shit since the whole bin ladin thing, they put up with nato's b/s alot longer than we could if the tables were turned.

[sledge]

Is that the same grey area that allows our military to kill a us citizen? not capture kill with a drone attack. Its cut and dry, Pakistan is a sovourn nation we have kinda treated them like shit since the whole bin ladin thing, they put up with nato's b/s alot longer than we could if the tables were turned.

No, it's the gray area where the Pakistan Secret Service set up and installed the Taliban in Afghanistan to begin with.  And they weren't happy about us throwig the Taliban out of Afghanistan.  The same gray area that has had elements within the Pakistani Government assist the Taliban in fighting the U.S.  The gray area that shows up when the Pakistani military allows Taliban fighters a few yards away from them to fire across the border into Afghanistan at our troops.

The Pakistani's have been playing a double game all along.  Using us for our money and providing assistance to the Taliban to kill our troops.  And waiting for us to leave so they can reinstall the Taliban.   That's a lot of gray area. 

[gapatriot]

None the less still a sovern nation, we should not be in Afghanistan any way but that's a whole other topic. But honestly if say Mexico was at war with Canada and the us had militants in country would you think it OK for a foreign military to strike targets in the us?

[sledge]

None the less still a sovern nation, we should not be in Afghanistan any way but that's a whole other topic. But honestly if say Mexico was at war with Canada and the us had militants in country would you think it OK for a foreign military to strike targets in the us?

I'm not sure.  In the example are we allowing the militants to base here and assisting them?  If that were the case I think we could rationally expect strikes within our territory.

[gapatriot]

My point is if we are going to strike a country legally we should declare war, at least the military isn't directly fighting our guys. My statements are not against our guys on the ground its directed at our government. I don't support either war over there. They hate us because of what we did, like booting the democratically elected leader of Iran. Our world police foreign policy has caused these un winable wars. But yes i support the Pakistanis just like i supported the Qaddafi supporters in Libya. I just cant support un constitutional actions made my our government whether here or abroad.

[sledge]

No disagreement there.  The people running our government, whoever they are, are idiots.  Or maybe not, but they definitely have an agenda.  I won't go into the 9/11 thing.  But I will agree that if we have to fight a war, for whatever reason, we should go in, kick ass and get out.  Police actions and nation building are bullshit and they never work.

[gapatriot]

agreed

[Outonowhere]

I agree with you guys but I gotta say they brought that latest airstrike on themselves and they admitted it!  I have no love for what we are doing over there but you
Are right that Pakistan, gov at least, has been playing with a double sided coin.

[goodnightChesty1775]

Is that the same grey area that allows our military to kill a us citizen? not capture kill with a drone attack. Its cut and dry, Pakistan is a sovourn nation we have kinda treated them like shit since the whole bin ladin thing, they put up with nato's b/s alot longer than we could if the tables were turned.

ok on that alwar alwaki whatever guy. was he not fighting for the enemy? he wasnt on US soil, and once you commit treason dont you forfeit your citizenship? and fighting a jihad against us would be considered treason in my eyes. would it be any different if he was behind an ak in the hills in afghan shooting at our guys? would people be complaining he didnt get a trial and was hosed?

[NOLA556]

Is that the same grey area that allows our military to kill a us citizen? not capture kill with a drone attack. Its cut and dry, Pakistan is a sovourn nation we have kinda treated them like shit since the whole bin ladin thing, they put up with nato's b/s alot longer than we could if the tables were turned.

No, it's the gray area where the Pakistan Secret Service set up and installed the Taliban in Afghanistan to begin with.  And they weren't happy about us throwig the Taliban out of Afghanistan.  The same gray area that has had elements within the Pakistani Government assist the Taliban in fighting the U.S.  The gray area that shows up when the Pakistani military allows Taliban fighters a few yards away from them to fire across the border into Afghanistan at our troops.

The Pakistani's have been playing a double game all along.  Using us for our money and providing assistance to the Taliban to kill our troops.  And waiting for us to leave so they can reinstall the Taliban.   That's a lot of gray area.

replace "Pakistan" with "CIA" every time the word occurs and you'd be correct.

think about Libya. think about the fact that Libya is now controlled by Al-CIA-da. and we were the ones who ushered it in. but wait wait... aren't these the folks that we're supposed to be fighting against? Pakistan didn't set up jihadi's on the Afghan border, we did. the jihadi zealots are just another tool in the American military industrial complex toolbag.

[Outonowhere]

Is that the same grey area that allows our military to kill a us citizen? not capture kill with a drone attack. Its cut and dry, Pakistan is a sovourn nation we have kinda treated them like shit since the whole bin ladin thing, they put up with nato's b/s alot longer than we could if the tables were turned.

ok on that alwar alwaki whatever guy. was he not fighting for the enemy? he wasnt on US soil, and once you commit treason dont you forfeit your citizenship? and fighting a jihad against us would be considered treason in my eyes. would it be any different if he was behind an ak in the hills in afghan shooting at our guys? would people be complaining he didnt get a trial and was hosed?

Here I disagree with you.  If an American citizen is shooting at our troops as an al-CIA-da fighter and he gets greased it's self defense.  You forget, and the fundamental flaws in argument are:

1. Every citizen has guaranteed rights (at least from those who honor the constitution) no matter what soil they be on
2. Every citizen suspected of ANY crime is guaranteed a fair trial and presumed innocent till proven guilty
3. While many states have the death penalty, there are certain procedures and ways to go about it that ensure that an innocent person is not put to death.

Simply put, he was still a citizen ACCUSED of crimes (to this day they refuse to bring forth evidence of his guilt) denied his right to a trial an executed by an unconstitutional and illegal order which the president has no business handing down.  This event also sets precedence that if they say you're bad, they can kill you no questions asked as long as they label you correctly.

Also, we can capture thousands of nobody foot troops but can't do it for an American citizen accused of these crimes? 

[NOLA556]

Is that the same grey area that allows our military to kill a us citizen? not capture kill with a drone attack. Its cut and dry, Pakistan is a sovourn nation we have kinda treated them like shit since the whole bin ladin thing, they put up with nato's b/s alot longer than we could if the tables were turned.

ok on that alwar alwaki whatever guy. was he not fighting for the enemy? he wasnt on US soil, and once you commit treason dont you forfeit your citizenship? and fighting a jihad against us would be considered treason in my eyes. would it be any different if he was behind an ak in the hills in afghan shooting at our guys? would people be complaining he didnt get a trial and was hosed?

Here I disagree with you.  If an American citizen is shooting at our troops as an al-CIA-da fighter and he gets greased it's self defense.  You forget, and the fundamental flaws in argument are:

1. Every citizen has guaranteed rights (at least from those who honor the constitution) no matter what soil they be on
2. Every citizen suspected of ANY crime is guaranteed a fair trial and presumed innocent till proven guilty
3. While many states have the death penalty, there are certain procedures and ways to go about it that ensure that an innocent person is not put to death.

Simply put, he was still a citizen ACCUSED of crimes (to this day they refuse to bring forth evidence of his guilt) denied his right to a trial an executed by an unconstitutional and illegal order which the president has no business handing down.  This event also sets precedence that if they say you're bad, they can kill you no questions asked as long as they label you correctly.

Also, we can capture thousands of nobody foot troops but can't do it for an American citizen accused of these crimes?

RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT!!! +1000000000 OONW....

let's not forget that this fucker was eating dinner with top brass at the pentagon not long ago. is it REALLY that hard to smell the stink?

just like Bin Laden was receiving kidney treatment at a U.S. embassy just weeks before 9/11, and the only guy that called bullshit (Bill Cooper) was murdered. is it REALLY so difficult for people to see what the fuck is going on here? anyone who ever attempted to unite the people has been murdered. and there's a "conspiracy" surrounding each and every one. do you REALLY think that all these things are just coincidence?

you'd be doing society a favor by abandoning this  false sense of patriotism and waking up to the grim reality that your government is.

America doesn't deserve respect and admiration just for her mere existence. God didn't just "choose" one particular geographical land mass to put his support into. there's a reason why we've been the envy of the world. it's because we've been the one beacon of light in a dark tunnel. and now we're just another dark spot in the tunnel. we don't deserve that respect and envy unless we EARN it. there's no such thing as "American exceptionalism" if there's nothing to feel exceptional about.

wake up guys. YOUR GOVERNMENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MOST OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HATE THE "ragheads" for.

[NOLA556]

sound familiar?

Bush on Iraq/wmd warpath LONG before 9/11. (Feb 2000)

Archive: Colin Powell's UN Presentation on Iraq WMD pt 4

Bush admits that Iraq Had Nothing To Do With 9/11

need i give you more?

[gapatriot]

Is that the same grey area that allows our military to kill a us citizen? not capture kill with a drone attack. Its cut and dry, Pakistan is a sovourn nation we have kinda treated them like shit since the whole bin ladin thing, they put up with nato's b/s alot longer than we could if the tables were turned.

ok on that alwar alwaki whatever guy. was he not fighting for the enemy? he wasnt on US soil, and once you commit treason dont you forfeit your citizenship? and fighting a jihad against us would be considered treason in my eyes. would it be any different if he was behind an ak in the hills in afghan shooting at our guys? would people be complaining he didnt get a trial and was hosed?

He was still a us citizen and if he was killed by a ground force it would be different, but he wasnt it was an air strike. If you remember bin ladins fbi most wanted poster it never said anything about 9/11 it was for other attacks. And by the way our founding fathers commited treason against the brits, i guess its a good thing they didnt have drones.

[JohnyMac]

Simple solution to this is:

No let NATO cross your border no US $$$$.

[gapatriot]

Johnny from what i understand we already pulled any aid from Pakistan after the bin ladin thing, thats why they are in bed with china now.

[JohnyMac]

Thx Wild you are correct. Well at least that is what the word is to the press. What is happening in the background though  . Sorry for the tinhat opinion.

[NOLA556]

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/11/29/pentagon-too-soon-to-comment-on-pakistan-killings/

Pentagon: ?Too Soon? to Comment on Pakistan Killings
by Jason Ditz, November 29, 2011
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Pentagon spokesman George Little declined comment today on the Friday night attack against a Pakistani military base in Mohmand Agency, saying it was ?too soon? to issue statements about the killings.

?No one at this point has the complete narrative on what happened. I think it is important that we wait for the investigation,? Little insisted. Such a stance has been common in past strikes in Afghanistan with massive, embarrassing death tolls.

But while stories about massacring Afghan civilians usually die on the vine with a lack of US official commentary, the Pakistani government is continuing to be critical of the deaths in this case, giving the story legs that will likely make it impossible for the Pentagon to just forget about it.

Pakistan has termed the attack ?unprovoked? and says that US warplanes kept bombing for nearly two hours despite calls for a ceasefire. Though the US has only expressed ?regret? formally, anonymous officials have claimed the killings were ?self-defense.?

 

[RS762]

I say good for Pakistan!!! We have been killing their citizens and waging war with drones in their country illegally. They should have done it months ago!

Im with you there.